Light Lager and Starter Question

Ok, so I'm looking to do my 1st lager (pilsner extract kit from morebeer) here shortly. However, I'm not too sure about how much yeast to pitch or if even to make a starter. Assuming the OG is around 1.050 and using White Labs Pilsner Yeast WLP800, will a single vial be sufficient? Also, currently I don't have equipment to make a starter. If I pitch at room temperature, will a starter be necessary? I noticed morebeer has starter kits at around $7 or so, so I may just pick one up if I do need one.

I think a starter is crucial with lagers. Whether you pitch warm and then cool the beer, or pitch at fermentation temperatures, a starter will give you better results with lager yeast. One vial is barely enough for a low gravity ale (1.040 or under), and even then I make a starter. I always pitch at fermentation temperatures, but I know that others do pitch warm and then reduce the temperature. The problem I see with that is by the time the beer gets to 50 degrees, the majority of fermentation is finished. I don't pitch my ales at 90 degrees, and wait for them to come down to 70, so I don't pitch my lagers 20 degrees too warm, either.

You don't need anything fancy. Just boil 1/2 cup DME in 2 cups water, cool it and put it in a sanitized jug. Add the yeast and cover it with sanitized foil. That's a small starter, but it's better than none at all.

I like to refer to mrmalty.com's yeast pitching calculator: Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator It will show you how much of a starter is advisable, based on yeast age and projected viability as well as the OG of the wort.

If you don't have equipment to make a starter, I'd go with a dry lager yeast. Get 2 packs of Saflager W-34/70 or S-23, rehydrate them per the instructions on the Fermentis webpage and pitch them cold (~50°F). Pitching lager yeast warm equals a high risk of noticeable esters and the need for a diacetyl rest.

Great thanks for the info. I know there is constant debate on dry vs liquid yeast. With a light lager will I notice any substantial benefits or difference in flavor with going with a dry yeast over liquid yeast?

HossTheGreat said:

Great thanks for the info. I know there is constant debate on dry vs liquid yeast. With a light lager will I notice any substantial benefits or difference in flavor with going with a dry yeast over liquid yeast?

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Well, think of it this way... WLP830 and Wyeast 2124 would be an acceptable yeast for that beer. They are both the same Weihenstephan strain. Saflager W34/70 is also the same strain.

My experience with Saflager W34/70, after many batches with WLP830, is that it tastes the same as WLP830. I've seen it written that dry yeasts in general can be more contaminated with bacteria due to the drying process, but I have not experienced a flavor difference (from equivalent liquid strains) or tangible contamination problems with dry yeast.

I can't speak for S-23 because I've never used it and I've heard reports of clean lagers and of estery lagers from it. My suspicion is that, just like W34/70, it can be a clean yeast... you just need the proper pitch rate (2 packs, rehydrated, per ~5 gallons) and to pitch it cold.

menschmaschine said:

I can't speak for S-23 because I've never used it and I've heard reports of clean lagers and of estery lagers from it. My suspicion is that, just like W34/70, it can be a clean yeast... you just need the proper pitch rate (2 packs, rehydrated, per ~5 gallons) and to pitch it cold.

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I will be making a lager soon using w-34/70, but I have a question about re-hydrating and temperature. On the Fermentis site it says to rehydrate at ~70F for 15-30min then pitch. Most likely I'm being overly concerned here, but my question is if there is an issue pitching the yeast which is around 70F into wort that is ~50F.

HutSutRaw said:

I will be making a lager soon using w-34/70, but I have a question about re-hydrating and temperature. On the Fermentis site it says to rehydrate at ~70F for 15-30min then pitch. Most likely I'm being overly concerned here, but my question is if there is an issue pitching the yeast which is around 70F into wort that is ~50F.

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It should be fine, but if you're concerned, you could 'temper' the yeast slurry. What I mean is rehydrate as directed, and add a tiny bit of wort after it's ready. Stir. Wait a bit, add some more, etc, so that the temperature of the yeast slurry is roughly the same as the wort when you go to pitch it.

HutSutRaw said:

I will be making a lager soon using w-34/70, but I have a question about re-hydrating and temperature. On the Fermentis site it says to rehydrate at ~70F for 15-30min then pitch. Most likely I'm being overly concerned here, but my question is if there is an issue pitching the yeast which is around 70F into wort that is ~50F.

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I cool the yeast slurry to ~50°F after rehydrating and before pitching. I like to get the yeast slurry as close as possible to fermentation temp.

YooperBrew & menschmaschine,

Thanks for the advice! I'm looking forward to making this lager