Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

Cool thanks I have any seen the Chinese one at the Asian store I go to

elkshadow said:

That's correct. The VN ones say BA NAM CALI on them.

I also saw something else that looked like rectangles of yeast and there were no english words printed on them. They were right next to the other ones on the shelf.

Maybe Leadgolem knows what there are since we visit the same store. They are to the far left of the other ones on the shelf.

Thinking about doing a bucket batch. I have 3.5 gallon buckets for my beer making.

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I don't remember the rectangle things you're talking about. I'll keep an eye out next time I go to that store.

I just tasted that bottle of rice wine I was planning on trying again on the 4th. Here are the original tasting notes:

Moderately sweet, moderately tangy, nice mouth feel, not to thick, very stongly alcoholic. Not bad, but I think I would serve it chilled to take the edge off the tang and the alcohol.

Here's the same bottle after 3 months:

Aroma, sweet and rice. Not much aroma to speak of actually. Tart and citrus flavor. Nicely so, though on the high end of the good tang scale. Very smooth. Nice mouth feel, slight tingle on the tongue. No apparent alcohol flavor. Nice warmth going down though.

I remember this bottle also have a slightly unpleasant "mushroomy" aroma and aftertaste. When I wrote the original notes I thought that was normal as most of my rice wine batches had some level of the same. That flavor and aroma has disappeared.

I'm definitely happier with the bottles of aged rice wine than the young wine. It definitely smooths out alot even after just a couple months.

Leadgolem said:

I don't remember the rectangle things you're talking about. I'll keep an eye out next time I go to that store.

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They come like 4 in a package and most of the packages had crumbled. I could only tell they were rectangles in one of the packages in the whole bin. Most of them were crushed and breaking into powder. No English on them at all. Good luck asking somebody there what they are.

Anyway, I just did a big batch today with the Vietnamese balls. I used 8 cups rice and 2 cups RYR and almost the whole package of yeast balls which says it's .4 oz. on the package.

Tomorrow I'm doing the same thing except with the Chinese balls to compare them side by side in a few weeks. I'll post the results.

I'm also considering blending some of it with some sweet wine like a reisling or muscat cannelli and seeing how that is.

Leadgolem said:

I remember this bottle also have a slightly unpleasant "mushroomy" aroma and aftertaste. When I wrote the original notes I thought that was normal as most of my rice wine batches had some level of the same. That flavor and aroma has disappeared.

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That would probably be flavors from the aspergillus, rhyzopus or whichever other fungus did the work of breaking down the starches into simple sugars. Umami flavors like this are very common in young sake and rice wine and do tend to mellow a little with age.

WesleyS said:

I'm definitely happier with the bottles of aged rice wine than the young wine. It definitely smooths out alot even after just a couple months.

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Most sake breweries are letting theirs age from six months to a year. I would be very curious to sample some young commercial sake vs. aged sake during a brewery tour. If i'm ever lucky enough to tour Japan, i'd like to do that.

So I ended up at a buddies party after going to a homebrew club meeting yesterday. He had his Korean buddy over that had family that just returned from Korea. He shared these soju with us. I had never had these, but they were good once mixed. They tasted essentially like watered down vodka. Anybody have any experience with these or making these? It does appear to be a distilled product that is charcoal filtered.

I found some new dried yeast balls at a Vietnamese Asian market and found some packets of dried yeast for $.75 cents each. Looks like they're packaged 12 to a sealed vac pack and the cakes are about the size of a dime and as round as a mentos mint. The label says, "Men Ruou (Lam Com Ruou). Hieu Ba Nam Gia Dinh. Dried Yeast. Net Wt. 12 pcs, Distributor: IHA Beverage, Commerce, CA."

TBBrewer said:

So I ended up at a buddies party after going to a homebrew club meeting yesterday. He had his Korean buddy over that had family that just returned from Korea. He shared these soju with us. I had never had these, but they were good once mixed. They tasted essentially like watered down vodka. Anybody have any experience with these or making these? It does appear to be a distilled product that is charcoal filtered.

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Looks awesome. I'd love to try something like that but i'm finding with a lot of Asian stores around my town, they don't really stock alcohol per se. The one exception to that is our Japanese market Circle Japan.

I've read a good bit in Sake:USA where Japanese are fond of using powdered GAC (granule activated carbon) to remove yellowing compounds for crystal clear Sake. The problem with that is the GAC also removes some organic flavor compounds, which modifies the character of the Sake in negative ways. Alcohol is one of the compounds that GAC will also absorb, so if you used it in your own jiu, I wouldn't use it more than once on any batch. There is even a style of black sake that leaves the powdered GAC in the liquid. Considering the absorption powers of carbon, it'd probably be good for absorbing gas as well as alcohol in your stomach. FYI, GAC is completely safe for your insides. Hospitals use it to absorb toxins people might've ingested (illegal drugs, poisons, etc.).

One of my crossover hobbies is aquaria. The Wife and I have had aquariums since we were both children and have had upwards of 30 tanks going in the house at one time. We've paired our addictions back to just two tanks at the moment but we have a lot of filtration and liquid pump experience which lends itself well to brewing.

If I were doing larger batches of jiu, say five to ten gallons at a time, I would probably invest in one of these: http://tinyurl.com/nv383nl

This is a hang-on canister filter that has interchangeable filters. The first filter is a fine mesh 1 micron pleated filter that polishes liquids and filters finer and finer particles as it starts to clog and slow down. What this means is, the dirtier it gets, the finer it will filter particles from the water. With a flow rate of 250 gallons per hour, it has plenty of push and is pressure resistant no matter how clogged the pleated filter gets. Also, after the liquid is polished and you remove the filter, you can simply remove it and rinse it in your sink to get all of the rice solids out of the pleats.

The second filter that comes with it is a chemical filter, which is a basket that sits inside the unit that you can fill with chemical media such as GAC (it even comes with a small box of GAC) to remove very fine organic molecules and coloring compounds.

The filter nozzles are also attachable to tubing at any custom length you can cut up to 20 feet. You can pump sanitizers like starsan through it with the micron filter in it but I wouldn't use sanitizer with the GAC chamber in it as the GAC will absorb the sanitizer, especially idophor. If it were me, i'd probably just use the micron filter and skip the GAC filtration unless you really had to make crystal clear sake for some odd reason.

Someone buying from me on eBay asked about the Yeast Balls, the Angel Rice Leaven and the Red Yeast Rice...wanted to know which works better.

In my experience, both the Dried Yeast Balls and the ARL work and each make a different but great tasting wines. (On a side note, when making this rice wine, I usually snack on the rice on about day 3 or 4 and I prefer the taste of the rice with the ARL. Just a but sweeter.)

The only thing I haven't tried is a batch of Red Yeast Rice with the ARL.

I'm looking for feedback from anyone else on the difference in taste between yeast balls and ARL.

Also, has anyone tried a batch with the ARL and RYR?

Confession: I STILL think the term "yeast balls" is funny.

Kind of like how I still laugh whenever my cheesemonger wife says "cut the cheese" unironically.

I stopped at the Asian market today to pick up some rice and look for red yeast rice. Apparently they don't carry it. I looked everywhere. The way the products are arranged, it seems like it would definitely be with the rice if they had it. The second place would be with the yeast balls. But I looked down all the aisles just to be sure. No red yeast rice. That's a shame, I was going to do some experimenting.
So instead, I bought a small bag of sweet rice in addition to my usual jasmine rice. I'm interested in seeing the difference in flavor and yield.

Here's what I have going: 2 identical batches except for yeast. Both batches are 8 cups rice, 2 cups RYR and cooked at a ratio of 1 to 1.5 rice to water. Both batches take up 2 gallons of space and they have equal amounts of yeast (about 10 grams) with one I used chinese balls and the other Vietnamese balls. The two on the left are 2 days old and the two on the right I just finished about 20 miuntes ago. I will report the difference in flavor in 3 weeks time. Cheers!

Well, just cooked up a batch of the short grain sweet rice I bought earlier today. The rice cooked perfectly. I was very surprised. I did 3 cups rice dry measure. Added 5.25 cups water and soaked for 30 minutes. Turned heat on. Once boiling, I turned the heat down low and put the lid on loosely. After 10 minutes, there was no more water, put the lid on all the way, turned the heat off and let it sit for about 10 more minutes. After that it was cooked all the way through and not a gooey mess. After this cools I'll be using 2-3 yeast balls. I will be interested to see the difference between the flavor of this batch and my previous jasmine rice batches. I guess I'll know in 21 days!

Sweet Elkshadow. I'll be doing something similar as soon as I can free up some fermenter space.

I harvested my second batch today. VERY different. This time it was obvious after a week or so that it was going much better as there as actual liquid in the bottom of the glass jar I was using as a fermenter. What I did: rinsed the rice VERY well, cooking at approximately 1.25:1 and ground up one package of Vietnamese yeast balls (a bit bigger than the size of a pea each) and 1/4 cup RYR. Now the differences: 1) The yeast was different, but I don't think that was the big factor. 2) I cooled my cooked rice in the fridge for a couple hours until it was barely warm to the touch 3) I mixed the crushed yeast, crushed RYR and cooked rice together (I think this is the big difference) and put it in a mesh sack inside the glass jar.

I used a small bag of Jasmine rice which was about 5 cups uncooked and 1/4 cup RYR and one bag of Vietnamese yeast. It smells VERY alcoholic, is very red, but very thin liquid, about the consistency of broth.

I'll be going to my local homebrew club meeting tomorrow. I'm planning on taking a bottle of my wine with me. I'm going to put the big bottle (pasteurized) in the fridge to let it sit for awhile to see if the flavors mellow out a bit.

elkshadow said:

Here's what I have going: 2 identical batches except for yeast. Both batches are 8 cups rice, 2 cups RYR and cooked at a ratio of 1 to 1.5 rice to water. Both batches take up 2 gallons of space and they have equal amounts of yeast (about 10 grams) with one I used chinese balls and the other Vietnamese balls. The two on the left are 2 days old and the two on the right I just finished about 20 miuntes ago. I will report the difference in flavor in 3 weeks time. Cheers!

http://s178.photobucket.com/user/elkshadow/media/DSC_4214_zps95a292fd.jpg.html

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Do you have any issues with your batches breathing when they are that packed full? It seems other have had issues when there fermenter was packed like that as it would form a cap that would not allow the CO2 escape. Just wondering.

Newsman said:

I harvested my second batch today. VERY different. This time it was obvious after a week or so that it was going much better as there as actual liquid in the bottom of the glass jar I was using as a fermenter. What I did: rinsed the rice VERY well, cooking at approximately 1.25:1 and ground up one package of Vietnamese yeast balls (a bit bigger than the size of a pea each) and 1/4 cup RYR. Now the differences: 1) The yeast was different, but I don't think that was the big factor. 2) I cooled my cooked rice in the fridge for a couple hours until it was barely warm to the touch 3) I mixed the crushed yeast, crushed RYR and cooked rice together (I think this is the big difference) and put it in a mesh sack inside the glass jar.

I used a small bag of Jasmine rice which was about 5 cups uncooked and 1/4 cup RYR and one bag of Vietnamese yeast. It smells VERY alcoholic, is very red, but very thin liquid, about the consistency of broth.

I'll be going to my local homebrew club meeting tomorrow. I'm planning on taking a bottle of my wine with me. I'm going to put the big bottle (pasteurized) in the fridge to let it sit for awhile to see if the flavors mellow out a bit.

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Very nice! Was it the mesh sack I sent to you? If so, I can speak from experience that you can wash and reuse it. It also has the awesome ability to be connected to a coat hanger and suspended above a collection container to allow your solids to drip for a while if you're not into squeezing the batch.

How did the wine taste?

TBBrewer said:

Do you have any issues with your batches breathing when they are that packed full? It seems other have had issues when there fermenter was packed like that as it would form a cap that would not allow the CO2 escape. Just wondering.

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I don't think so because when I open that closet it reeks like rice wine. Do you mean packed as in just full to the top or do you mean packed like packed down? The rice isn't packed down in there. I drop a spoon full in there and poke it just enough to flatten it out into a "layer" if that makes sense. The last big batch like this I had going I could even smell it near the closet with the closet door closed.

TBBrewer said:

Do you have any issues with your batches breathing when they are that packed full? It seems other have had issues when there fermenter was packed like that as it would form a cap that would not allow the CO2 escape. Just wondering.

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Those issues can be dealt with by steaming the rice as opposed to cooking it, thinning the rice with a little water and stirring the rice twice to four times a day or so.

Newsman said:

I harvested my second batch today. VERY different. This time it was obvious after a week or so that it was going much better as there as actual liquid in the bottom of the glass jar I was using as a fermenter. What I did: rinsed the rice VERY well, cooking at approximately 1.25:1 and ground up one package of Vietnamese yeast balls (a bit bigger than the size of a pea each) and 1/4 cup RYR. Now the differences: 1) The yeast was different, but I don't think that was the big factor. 2) I cooled my cooked rice in the fridge for a couple hours until it was barely warm to the touch 3) I mixed the crushed yeast, crushed RYR and cooked rice together (I think this is the big difference) and put it in a mesh sack inside the glass jar.

I used a small bag of Jasmine rice which was about 5 cups uncooked and 1/4 cup RYR and one bag of Vietnamese yeast. It smells VERY alcoholic, is very red, but very thin liquid, about the consistency of broth.

I'll be going to my local homebrew club meeting tomorrow. I'm planning on taking a bottle of my wine with me. I'm going to put the big bottle (pasteurized) in the fridge to let it sit for awhile to see if the flavors mellow out a bit.

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I would be very surprised if the yeast didn't play a role. All previous evidence points to different balls = different wine.

Stirring was the worst mistake I made.

aiptasia said:

Those issues can be dealt with by steaming the rice as opposed to cooking it, thinning the rice with a little water and stirring the rice twice to four times a day or so.

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Hmm, now I know this reminds me of some other kind of rice wine. I just can't put my finger on it.

I've found that rolling the rice into about 1 1/2" balls after it's been mixed with the yeast ball powder and/or the RYR also keeps that rice cap from forming.

I figured I'd give it a try since 2 of the 8 or so recipes for red rice wine I read mentioned rolling the rice into balls as you place then in the fermentor, though they didn't mention why. It works fairly well.

jak1010 said:

Someone buying from me on eBay asked about the Yeast Balls, the Angel Rice Leaven and the Red Yeast Rice...wanted to know which works better.

In my experience, both the Dried Yeast Balls and the ARL work and each make a different but great tasting wines. (On a side note, when making this rice wine, I usually snack on the rice on about day 3 or 4 and I prefer the taste of the rice with the ARL. Just a but sweeter.)

The only thing I haven't tried is a batch of Red Yeast Rice with the ARL.

I'm looking for feedback from anyone else on the difference in taste between yeast balls and ARL.

Also, has anyone tried a batch with the ARL and RYR?

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I made 3 or 4 batches with ARL and YRY. They were my favorites so far. The wine was drier than the stuff I am making now with the balls and RYR. I felt that the cleaner finish on the ARL really made a more drinkable wine.

So I took a 12 oz bottle with me to the local home brew club meeting last night. It was a hit. We were meeting at a local watering hole that mainly serves microbrews (I don't think I saw a single option for Bud, Bud Light, Coors, Coors Light, etc.) and I poured out samples for people, including the owner of the watering hole. He liked it so much he had to share with his assistant who was behind the bar. Both he and she are fans of Sake and said this is very similar to a "sweet sake" and liked it very much. Overall it had good reviews, once people got over the alcohol smell. One thing that the bar owner said was that it had a lot more of an alcohol "nose" than in the mouth or going down your throat. Not sure why that would be, but I thought I'd throw it in.

Oh man, my last batch got sour in the fridge. like sour sour.

I've had friends tell me that same thing at my local bottle share. The last batch I brought smelled alcoholic but tasted much lighter.

CreamyGoodness said:

Oh man, my last batch got sour in the fridge. like sour sour.

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Rice vinegar!

Pasteurizing has become a good friend of my rice wine.

aiptasia said:

Rice vinegar!

Pasteurizing has become a good friend of my rice wine.

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Good to know. Since its now terrible wine, I think I could stand it being awesome vinegar. Decant the clearer liquid off the top and return to fridge?

edds5p0 said:

I made 3 or 4 batches with ARL and YRY. They were my favorites so far. The wine was drier than the stuff I am making now with the balls and RYR. I felt that the cleaner finish on the ARL really made a more drinkable wine.

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Thanks, this is very helpful.

Looks like a batch of Angel Rice Leaven and RYR are in my brewing future...

CreamyGoodness said:

Oh man, my last batch got sour in the fridge. like sour sour.

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Drink faster

jak1010 said:

Thanks, this is very helpful.

Looks like a batch of Angel Rice Leaven and RYR are in my brewing future...

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I have decided to do ARL + RYR too, but in the name of science (and because I can, and want more rice wine) I will make one with just ARL. Think I'm going to need more ARL my friend.

Oh, I reconnected with a childhood friend ( she is from Vietnam) and she gave a bottle of my rice wine to her Mom. Her Mom went nuts over it, started talking in Vietnamese to me over the phone. They both said I am the only non-Vietnamese person they know who eats and likes the boozy 'yeast rice' (3d into ferment). I am going to see them both soon--they plan to cook for me, make 'yeast rice' for me, taking me to their favorite markets, cooking for me. Mom says she has lemon grass plants for me to take home along with a medicinal orchid, and other plants I want--we are both garden addicts. Did I mention cooking for me?

I went to the local Chinese store a few days ago and have my first batch going (4 cups dry rice.) While I was at the store, I asked the man running the shop which rice was commonly used for making rice wine. He said he was not familiar with the process, but that many others come in and buy those bottles of pre-fermented rice wine (shown in the jars on page ??? of this thread) to use as starters! I'm not sure, but I don't see how that would work. Surely that stuff is shelf stable and thus would be no good for using as a starter?

Whippy said:

I'm not sure, but I don't see how that would work. Surely that stuff is shelf stable and thus would be no good for using as a starter?

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Check his refrigerated section. Many of the Asian stores in our area have the little jars of sweet fermented rice in their reach-in coolers. There's usually a small area on the back of the label that lists the ingredients in English, and as I recall, it's usually: Water, rice, alcohol. I don't remember any preservatives being listed on the label and I thought the jars were probably pasteurized to keep them stable and stall further fermentation.

saramc said:

I have decided to do ARL + RYR too, but in the name of science (and because I can, and want more rice wine) I will make one with just ARL. Think I'm going to need more ARL my friend.

Oh, I reconnected with a childhood friend ( she is from Vietnam) and she gave a bottle of my rice wine to her Mom. Her Mom went nuts over it, started talking in Vietnamese to me over the phone. They both said I am the only non-Vietnamese person they know who eats and likes the boozy 'yeast rice' (3d into ferment). I am going to see them both soon--they plan to cook for me, make 'yeast rice' for me, taking me to their favorite markets, cooking for me. Mom says she has lemon grass plants for me to take home along with a medicinal orchid, and other plants I want--we are both garden addicts. Did I mention cooking for me?

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Nice! Looking forward to hearing from you about this and how it turns out.

You know where to find me when you need more.

The friends mom thing, really nice! I hope she shows and teaches you amazing things. The cooking should be incredible. Especially if she has some cooking with rice wine recipes.

Newsman said:

So I took a 12 oz bottle with me to the local home brew club meeting last night. It was a hit. We were meeting at a local watering hole that mainly serves microbrews (I don't think I saw a single option for Bud, Bud Light, Coors, Coors Light, etc.) and I poured out samples for people, including the owner of the watering hole. He liked it so much he had to share with his assistant who was behind the bar. Both he and she are fans of Sake and said this is very similar to a "sweet sake" and liked it very much. Overall it had good reviews, once people got over the alcohol smell. One thing that the bar owner said was that it had a lot more of an alcohol "nose" than in the mouth or going down your throat. Not sure why that would be, but I thought I'd throw it in.

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aiptasia said:

I've had friends tell me that same thing at my local bottle share. The last batch I brought smelled alcoholic but tasted much lighter.

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Time. Sake is usually aged a bit before being sold, and the volatiles that give you a strong alcohol aroma break down over time. That's true no matter what you brew.

SoG,
Thank you for this thread! I brewed up a batch of this on 6/24 and strained it tonight. 2 cups (uncooked) rice provided around 18 oz of rice squeezins. I used voile material from a cheap sheer walmart drape to strain it. It made real easy to get the majority out without squeezing the bag. I just rolled the puddle back and forth in the material and as it drained, it balled up nicely. When I ran out of room in my first bottle, I did the same in a second and then squeezed the bag of leftovers when the draining started to slow.

I knew it was going to have a good kick when my hands were getting cold from the alcohol flashing off of them

elkshadow,
I went to a local market to get my yeast balls (heh). I failed so found the youngest person working there and told her what I was looking for. She took me to the balls (heh) and also showed me the rectangles. She said the rectangles will make a "sweet" wine. I just bought both and figured I'll try them in turn.

She grabbed a couple of the older men there and rapid fire translated for me. From that, she told me that I could use one ball for 10 lbs of rice. That seemed a little thin in coverage to me. Then again, if anyone has read about propagating, ummmm, mushrooms, as long as you're sanitary and patient, it only takes a few spores to get the growth needed. She also told me I could mix it up and stick it in the sun for a few hours (mid 90s that day) and have sweet rice that quick. Then she told me that she doesn't make rice wine and drink it because it's only 40 proof.

dgr said:

elkshadow,
I went to a local market to get my yeast balls (heh). I failed so found the youngest person working there and told her what I was looking for. She took me to the balls (heh) and also showed me the rectangles. She said the rectangles will make a "sweet" wine. I just bought both and figured I'll try them in turn.

She grabbed a couple of the older men there and rapid fire translated for me. From that, she told me that I could use one ball for 10 lbs of rice. That seemed a little thin in coverage to me. Then again, if anyone has read about propagating, ummmm, mushrooms, as long as you're sanitary and patient, it only takes a few spores to get the growth needed. She also told me I could mix it up and stick it in the sun for a few hours (mid 90s that day) and have sweet rice that quick. Then she told me that she doesn't make rice wine and drink it because it's only 40 proof.

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lol "only"

So I let several of my co-workers taste the rice wine I made. One of my co-workers is from mainland China. He said it reminds him of home. Another co-worker asked me to put him down for a bottle for him and his wife next time I make it. I'm thinking of just handing him some yeast balls and telling him to go for it. OTOH, his teenage daughter likes anything "asian" and he told me the last time he had a bottle of sake at dinner she drank half of it, so maybe that's not such a good idea!