Why do I keep getting a somewhat "sour" taste to my beers?

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sfrice80

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Okay, I've brewed 5 batches of beer now and my most recent was a partial mash, everything before was extract with some speciality grains. I just kegged a Blueberry Belgian Wit on Monday and it was finally properly carbed last night and it has somewhat of a sour taste to it. 2 beers before this, which are bottled also had a sour taste. My Weizen Bier was so sour that I couldn't finish a glass but as time has gone on, it has become more mild. My raspberry Wheat, although pretty tasty also is somewhat sour.

I'm confident that I'm not getting infection. My guesses are that I'm rushing them through secondary (2 weeks in secondary) or it's because I've brewed 2 fruit beers that may just naturally taste "sour?" If thats the case, I don't know why my Weizen Bier tastes the way it does. Any ideas or suggestions or similar experiences? I've got an IPA and Stout coming up through the pipeline very soon, so I guess that will be the true test.
 
Okay, I've brewed 5 batches of beer now and my most recent was a partial mash, everything before was extract with some speciality grains. I just kegged a Blueberry Belgian Wit on Monday and it was finally properly carbed last night and it has somewhat of a sour taste to it. 2 beers before this, which are bottled also had a sour taste. My Weizen Bier was so sour that I couldn't finish a glass but as time has gone on, it has become more mild. My raspberry Wheat, although pretty tasty also is somewhat sour.

I'm confident that I'm not getting infection. My guesses are that I'm rushing them through secondary (2 weeks in secondary) or it's because I've brewed 2 fruit beers that may just naturally taste "sour?" If thats the case, I don't know why my Weizen Bier tastes the way it does. Any ideas or suggestions or similar experiences? I've got an IPA and Stout coming up through the pipeline very soon, so I guess that will be the true test.

Sour can come from lots of things. If you ruled out infection, then the next most obvious thing is fermentation temperature. You should aim for a brew temp of 68-72 for most kinds of beer, though a witbier should be okay at a bit higher temp.

Blueberries are a very sour fruit. People forget that sometimes, but often they are sour.

Another thing you can switch out is to get a different yeast. Some breeds of yeast leave more sugars behind than others, so maybe you would prefer the taste of a different type.

Finally, what did you use for carbing sugar, if you carbed in the bottle? (You didn't say whether you kegged or not.) Some people think that cane sugar like you get from the store can leave a sour taste after the bottles carb up.

The most likely culprit, however, is your fermentation temperatures, I'd bet.
 
Fermentation temp is definitely a possibility because the temps have really fluctuated in my apartment over the past month. I recently built a fermentation chiller but wont use it until my next brew. You only need to control temps during primary fermentation correct?
 
I don't know anyone who would attribute fermentation temps to a sour flavor. All of those beers you mentioned have a sour or tart aspect to them. While they are still green this may be more apparent than at a later time.

High fermentation temps can and will cause other off-flavors and fusel alcohols. Most yeast will prefer to be in the 68 F area (but check the package or website for most accurate information). You'll want to make sure that the beer is kept at this temp during the initial strong fermentation. After the krausen has dropped, it's less critical.

Your IPA and Stout will likely tell you more. My best guess at this point is that your beer is just green, and styles that may be a bit tart to begin with.

But I have to ask.. You aren't sucking on the siphon hose are you??
 
No, I have an autosiphon. I think my next 2 beers will tell me a lot. Just disappointed to take that first sip every time and get a sour taste.
 
I vote fermentation temps.
I used to get a strange "twang" to my brews before I started doing controlled temp ferments. Once you get that temp fixed, you won;t go back! It makes a world of difference.
 
Also, try brewing some non fruit beers and control your fermentation temperatures. I agree with Homer that this may be hard to decipher since you have so many fruit recipes.
 
Okay, I've brewed 5 batches of beer now and my most recent was a partial mash, everything before was extract with some speciality grains. I just kegged a Blueberry Belgian Wit on Monday and it was finally properly carbed last night and it has somewhat of a sour taste to it. 2 beers before this, which are bottled also had a sour taste. My Weizen Bier was so sour that I couldn't finish a glass but as time has gone on, it has become more mild. My raspberry Wheat, although pretty tasty also is somewhat sour.

I'm confident that I'm not getting infection. My guesses are that I'm rushing them through secondary (2 weeks in secondary) or it's because I've brewed 2 fruit beers that may just naturally taste "sour?" If thats the case, I don't know why my Weizen Bier tastes the way it does. Any ideas or suggestions or similar experiences? I've got an IPA and Stout coming up through the pipeline very soon, so I guess that will be the true test.
do you leave the lid on your pot when boiling?
 
do you leave the lid on your pot when boiling?

Another thread title made me think of this right after I posted my original response. You def want to keep the lid OFF during the boil. But I don't know how much tart DMS gives to a beer.

I've noted a certain flavor in my beers before I got to really controlling my temps, but I would not describe it as tart in any way.

If you are sure your thermometer is reading 68-70 then I just don't think that that's high enough to cause much of a flavor problem.

Some yeasts and some hops can give flavors that are close to tart though. We just won't be able to help much until you find out how the non-fruit beers turn out.
 
Wyeast 3333 for raspberry wheat which has a tart taste but is definitely the most mild. Wyeast 3944 for the Belgian Wit and I don't remember for the Weizenbier, it was a dry yeast and that one had a SUPER aggressive fermentation. I wanna say Safale US-05.
 
I know that my very first beer (in a Mr. Beer kit) was sour like lemon juice, and I don't think it was infected. I didn't control the temps and I used cane sugar to prime... different folks have had different experiences.

Your beer will always be better if you control your fermentation temps (whether that means cooling almost anything in the summer, or heating up a Belgian witbier in the winter).

Your beer might just be a bit green, especially if you noticed it got better over time. Maybe you do need to let them sit a bit longer, at a reasonable temperature. (This is another place where yeast vary... some are reputed to carb up and clean up faster than other types.)

If you control your temps, switch your yeast and/or let the bottles condition longer, one of those things (or all three) will most likely help your beer taste better. :)

-----------------------------------------------------

EDIT: those are pretty good yeast, based on reputation.
 
I'm still just waiting for my first "really tasty beer!" By the way, I primed with corn sugar. My kegged Wit was a bit sour as well but again this could be the blueberries. I think I got over my fruit beer phase really fast. Its really hard to make a great fruit beer. Hopefully my IPA and Stout come out awesome. I would think its pretty hard to screw up an IPA.
 
I think I've used different water for almost every batch. My raspberry, which has turned out the best so far, actually was just straight up tap water. I bought bottled spring water for the blueberry wit and I used filtered water for the Weizenbier, so I'm doubting it.
 
I've had a couple of batches come out slightly sour but I think mine were due to dry hopping too long. I'm not sure what else would cause an actual sour flavor apart from an infection.
 
I think that I would start with green beer and the yeast strain. The fruits are sour, and will likely be all you taste in the beer for the first month or two. Also, I have noticed that some Belgian strains of yeast add a slight tartness to the finish of some beers. It could be temp, but belgian strains are usually pretty heat tolerant to a point. You said you are to PM kits. Could simply be stale LME if that's what you had in the kit. If that's the case, you likely will have the tartness in the IPA as well.
 
I'm confident that I'm not getting infection. My guesses are that I'm rushing them through secondary (2 weeks in secondary) or it's because I've brewed 2 fruit beers that may just naturally taste "sour?"

FWIW I had someone identify an infection in a beer that did not appear infected at all. Just because it doesn't have hair on it doesn't mean it's not infected.

With that being said, I went through a similar battle on several successive batches and after several changes to my methodology I managed to get rid of it.

1. Purchased new brewing equipment (bucket, airlock and transfer hoses were suspect).

2. Applied temperature strips to the brew bucket and paid more attention to controlling the temp.

3. Refined my sanitation process.

4. Refined my yeast washing/starter process.

I think number 4 was a major factor in my case. I would reuse multiple generations of yeast to save money. It didn't work. Over time wild yeast and off flavors would work it's way in. I don't know how but it did. Now I make starters for everything and dump the yeast after the 2nd pass since it's not worth the risk of pushing it further.

Also, I soak everything in idophor and make sure to rinse it immediately and let it air dry first, before putting it away. Don't put anything away wet.

Excessive hand cleaning helps too.

All of the above helped. I have not had a sour batch in several months.
 
At what high temp do you start getting funkyness during fermentation?

I put mine in my basement, but it is getting hot, close to 80F but not quite. It is more like 75F upstairs and pretty controlled from 71-75F.
 
At what high temp do you start getting funkyness during fermentation?

I put mine in my basement, but it is getting hot, close to 80F but not quite. It is more like 75F upstairs and pretty controlled from 71-75F.

Mid 70's for most yeasts. Yeast are exothermic so they raise their own temp just by working out, by as much as a few degrees. I didn't believe it at first until I applied a temp strip and saw the temp drop after active fermentation. If you have yeast working in a room in the mid 70's you can bet you're beer is even hotter which will leave off flavors.

Controlling temp was the hardest thing for me to deal with because where I live in LA air conditioning is not standard. I sort of learned how to use water baths and open windows to control the temp over the day to prevent the temp from getting so high.
 
Mid 70's for most yeasts. Yeast are exothermic so they raise their own temp just by working out, by as much as a few degrees. I didn't believe it at first until I applied a temp strip and saw the temp drop after active fermentation. If you have yeast working in a room in the mid 70's you can bet you're beer is even hotter which will leave off flavors.

Controlling temp was the hardest thing for me to deal with because where I live in LA air conditioning is not standard. I sort of learned how to use water baths and open windows to control the temp over the day to prevent the temp from getting so high.


thanks, decided to bring it upstairs into the air conditioning!!!!!
 
At what high temp do you start getting funkyness during fermentation?

I put mine in my basement, but it is getting hot, close to 80F but not quite. It is more like 75F upstairs and pretty controlled from 71-75F.

The yeast in primary fermentation are often 5 degrees higher than ambient, so if your house is 80F then they may be at 85F. IIRC, anything above 78F may cause more byproducts, depending on yeast strain... YMMV.
 
The sour taste could be coming from the water if you just top off
with tap or spring water. My beers improved tremendously by bringing
the full amount of water to a boil before adding the extract, cooling in
an ice bath, aeration and piching at 70 or below. Also submerging your
fermenter in a cooler full of water and controling temps with frozen
water bottles and letting the beer stay in primary for 3 weeks so the
yeasts can clean up and finish the job.
 
I'm still guessing it's the combination of yeast and fruit at this point. Your temps may not be optimum, but they are certainly not real high, especially for the Belgian yeasts.

And I agree that an infection may not show visibly, but can still sour a beer. If you are sure you performed good sanitation, then I just doubt that's the cause though. Especially since it's new equipment.
 
I'm still guessing it's the combination of yeast and fruit at this point. Your temps may not be optimum, but they are certainly not real high, especially for the Belgian yeasts.

And I agree that an infection may not show visibly, but can still sour a beer. If you are sure you performed good sanitation, then I just doubt that's the cause though. Especially since it's new equipment.

I'm kind of thinking the same thing. If it were infection, wouldn't it be getting worse and not better? My equipment is new and I'm pretty diligent when it comes to sanitation. My temps definitely are not optimum but again I've had 2 fruit beers so far. I'll repost once I taste my IPA and Stout. THanks for all the feedback.
 
They were all extract except my Stout which was a partial mash but I haven't tried that one yet.
 
Re-reading the OP, it seems as though you are only tasting from the bottle.

Have you tasted it at various points?

It very well could be a lactic infection in your bottling equipment. It's the same type of infection you might get at a bar that doesn't routinely clean it's draft lines.

I've been brewing for over a decade and I can say that would never rule out infection.

You still haven't answered my question. What type of sour? I've answered many of these questions only to find out the some people can't discern sweet from fruity from sour.

High ferm temp of yeast will give you fruity esters and high solventy flavors, not sour. However if there are wild yeasts, those yeast will beat out your pitched yeast.
 
I would say more of a vinegar sour, that's especially true with my Weizenbier. I taste that one each week and its getting more mild every week. My latest blueberry belgian wit is kegged and that might be just from the blueberry fruit and puree.
 
I've noticed that sometimes yeast can have a taste that I would describe as "tart". Are you letting the yeast settle to the bottom of the bottles or are you shaking them up every day to make them carb faster?
 
I'd taste at a minimum every time you rack.

Acetic generally doesn't go away but carbonic acid (result of C02 and carbonation) does.

Are you familiar with what that tastes like?
 
Carbonic acid is more of a sensation, it can accentuate other flavors. It's more of a bite.

Is it a taste you pick up immediately or an aftertaste?

Is this "sour" taste reminiscent of drinking an overly sweet soda and you get that sour flavor well after you are done? That's carbonic acid amping up sweet.

Were you beers well attenuated? What was the FG?
 
I would have to look at my notes at home but I'm pretty sure all attenuation rates were good. You pick it up immediately and with my weizenbier, you can somewhat even smell a sour smell. Its hard to put a taste into words. Its not like sour to the point where you just know something is rancid, its still palatable but definitely not good.
 

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