Brewing inside a keg, with yeast?

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Timpy

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Forgive me for my newbness, but I've been wanting to have finer control over the root beer I've been brewing. Bigger batches make sense to my situation rather than brewing in individual bottles. So, tell if this would work...

If I had a 5 gallon keg that I could brew the root beer in, and somehow monitor the pressure with a gauge to see when ideal carbonation amounts have been achieved, that would be great. When I want my root beer, I could just tap it and go crazy. This would allow me to use champagne yeast, which apparently has a less aggressive taste, while being able monitoring the pressure.

Unfortunately I was unable to find a clear answer to this with a search, as obviously kegs are used for different things. I know nothing about brewing though, so perhaps there would be a better solution than the one I'm proposing that I'm not aware of.

Let me know what you think!
 
Possible, definitely. A corney keg has a pressure relief valve so you couldn't blow it up like with glass bottles. I'd recommend investigating force carbing though, easier and far better control, especially for dispensing. Probably around $150 for the gear for it though.
 
i would force carb with co2!! you could use the gas side connector to a gauge and get to the pressure desired (i would go 50 psi at room temp for soda and leave it for a week) and then get it into a fridge before it tried to fully ferment...

Edit: um forgot to say purge it down to 50psi everyday for a week!!
 
Thanks for the quick input, guys. I would say force carbonation would be a step I could take a bit later after this becomes more feasible to me financially. Also, the idea of brewing with yeast seems like something I'd like to play around with for awhile! I have easy access to used corny kegs for cheap as well.

So, the consensus seems to be that this is definitely possible! Good to hear.
 
You can get keg gas line disconnects that have a pressure gauge attached. A little pricy imho but i am a cheap bastard.
 
So it seems like a good route would be to use a spunding valve. The problem is that I can't find any pressure relief valves that are rated 50 psi or higher. Most ones discussed here only go to 20. Could I achieve the correct amount of carbonation with only 20 psi?
 
So it seems like a good route would be to use a spunding valve. The problem is that I can't find any pressure relief valves that are rated 50 psi or higher. Most ones discussed here only go to 20. Could I achieve the correct amount of carbonation with only 20 psi?

No, probably not. Unless the soda was very very cold, near freezing and then maybe it'd be close.

I have a dumb question though. Since you aren't force carbing, I assume you don't have a co2 tank or faucets. So, how is the root beer going to be served? It needs some co2 to "push" it out of the keg for serving. You said you could "tap it", but you'd need a tap set up, co2 tank, regulator, etc.
 
In addition, how cold will the soda be, and how quickly will it be consumed? Do you expect to drink all 5 gallons within a few weeks to a month? Or do you expect to not be able to finish it for half a year?

Despite the cold, some yeast may still be active and continue to eat sugars at a extremely slow pace. This means that given enough time, it's possible for all the sugar to be consumed (or until said yeast finally give up and go dormant.) I have a cider that was racked into a keg (meaning I tried to leave behind as much yeast as possible) and sweetened when I added a gallon of pasturized cider in November and I did not add sorbates or other preservatives to halt yeast activity (as I have a friend who has a sulfite reaction. Heck, he reacts to the water in this town too.) And as of last week Saturday, it's very dry and lacks most of the sweetness.

I wonder though... If you have two kegs, connected with connectors and a hose, one with soda syrup and water, the other with sugar & water & yeast. Would equilibrium be hit at some amount (lets say 50 psi per keg), and could potentially offer some minor amount of extra pressure when the soda is dispensed? (generally the same experiment kids do with two 2-liter bottles)
 
I have a dumb question though. Since you aren't force carbing, I assume you don't have a co2 tank or faucets. So, how is the root beer going to be served? It needs some co2 to "push" it out of the keg for serving. You said you could "tap it", but you'd need a tap set up, co2 tank, regulator, etc.

I suppose a hand-pump style would suffice? Wait... do those exist for corny kegs? EDIT: yes they do.

Also, KevinM, we ideally want to put these into bottles but we'll also be drinking straight from a chilled keg. This will be served at a local market in cups and bottles for those who want them 'to go' so hopefully we go through batches in a week or two. Interesting with your idea of two kegs. Possibly later down the road!

I didn't realize that the all the sugar could be consumed by the yeast. This actually decreases the sweetness?
 
I suppose a hand-pump style would suffice? Wait... do those exist for corny kegs? EDIT: yes they do.

Also, KevinM, we ideally want to put these into bottles but we'll also be drinking straight from a chilled keg. This will be served at a local market in cups and bottles for those who want them 'to go' so hopefully we go through batches in a week or two. Interesting with your idea of two kegs. Possibly later down the road!

I didn't realize that the all the sugar could be consumed by the yeast. This actually decreases the sweetness?

Since soda is very highly carbed, a hand pump would probably cause major foaming and then seemingly flat soda. That's what happens when a carbonated beverage is served with a too-short line and not enough pressure to push it out.

And yes, the sugar will be consumed by the yeast if the keg warms up at all. The way to make soda the old fashioned way with yeast is to chill it as soon as it gets carbed up. That means an ABV of under .25% or so. But if it's not kept in the fridge, the yeast will start up again when it gets warm.

Also, keep in mind that moving the keg will resuspend on the yeast back into it. You probably don't want to serve foamy yeasty flat soda to customers.

If you're planning on serving this to customers, you really need the co2 system. You could probably get the system for under $200.

If you can't do the c02 system, I think it would be better to just make the soda in 2 liter soda bottles, and pour what you need.
 
A week or two, assuming chilled the entire time after you reach your desired pressure, should be fine then.

Yup, yeast will eat sugar until they get suppressed from too much alcohol, lack of sugar, high temperature (pastuerize) or various other reasons. The first two tend to be the usual culprits.

Should you leave the soda out, unchilled after the initial carbonating period, it'll continue to eat the sugars (decreasing sweetness), and increase co2. This includes chilling, serving and letting warm back up.

But if you keep it chilled, I'd expect a month or two of sweetness, at least. I'm fairly sure my cider was still pretty sweet in January. I just hadn't touched it since then, and it was in the same fridge the entire time.
 
Should you leave the soda out, unchilled after the initial carbonating period, it'll continue to eat the sugars (decreasing sweetness), and increase co2. This includes chilling, serving and letting warm back up.

This is really good to know. Thanks for the tip! I didn't think of yeast like that. On a side note, is there a 'culture' of yeast with this setup and similar ones? So if I add half the amount of recommended yeast, will they accomplish the same thing as a normal amount but in a longer time? In yogurt-making this happens to be the case. A smaller amount of starter gives the bacteria (I know yeast isn't a bacteria) more 'room to grow'.

Since soda is very highly carbed, a hand pump would probably cause major foaming and then seemingly flat soda. That's what happens when a carbonated beverage is served with a too-short line and not enough pressure to push it out.

I am curious, what aspect actually causes the foaming followed by flat soda? Is it the fact that I'm pumping outside air into it, or the fact that it doesn't provide enough pressure? The hose length could obviously be controlled if needed.

I guess my only issue with doing it in larger plastic bottles is the fact that I can't monitor the pressure. I liked the idea of using a spunding valve and holding the keg at a certain pressure for a certain amount of time so that I had the luxury of control. I know CO2 offers a lot of control of course... Is there really no feasible way of doing this? :( I don't mean to come off as too questioning. I'm already in this with time and money, but the CO2 route is just out of the question unfortunately.
 
Also, what about this just for the purpose of dispensing: Use a smaller CO2 tank, maybe even a paintball gun tank (which are easily had for $15 used for a 20 oz). My spunding valve will have a T-joint. At the top will be the pressure gauge. The other will be connected to either the adjustable pressure relief (for brewing) OR a CO2 connection of some sort (for dispensing). Using the pressure gauge as a guide, we can slowly let in some CO2 with a valve of some sort to push out the beverage.

Obviously I don't know if this is even possible, and could possibly be even dangerous especially without a regulator. I just really don't want to have to buy $200 worth of CO2 equipment JUST so I can push the beverage out of the keg. Of course, any other ideas are welcome too.
 
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