Applejack recipe question

Now that freeze concentrating/distilling is officially legal...

I've been thinking about making some applejack for a while, and I'm wondering how sweet of a cider is good for freeze concentrating. I've made dry apfelwein a few times but that's my entire experience with ciders. I'm considering two different routes and I'd definitely appreciate some input.

Option 1
make a standard apfelwein, about 10oz of honey per 1 gallon of apple juice, yielding something like 6-8% ABV (just a guess) and use that

OR

Option 2
since we're talking hooch here anyway, what if I did a bunch more honey to knock sugar content high enough that the yeast die before they can get to all of it... this obviously depends on the yeast, but I'm a big fan of S-04 for ciders, and that's supposed to crap out at 8.5%. What if I shoot for say 10%, and that way have some unfermented sugar going into the applejack? Good idea? Bad idea?

I'm mainly concerned with ending up with a disgusting over-sweet liquor, and of course I'd also prefer to have the end result not taste like rocket fuel, so I'm wondering if option 2 is a good route to take. If so, what do you guys think would be a good level to overshoot the yeast's alcohol tolerance by? Should I just freeze concentrate a dry apfelwein instead?

Personally, I'd drop the honey since it'll ferment out 100% and make it dry.

I made a sweet cider using some brown sugar that tasted pretty good. I concentrated it over the winter and it ended up at over 16%. It was still sweet and did not have any alcohol bite.

Why not freeze and concentrate the AJ before fermenting and then ferment? This will give you a higher sugar content allowing you to have a sweet fermented beverage. I believe the process is called cryoextraction (at least that is the term used by a cider maker I met in Canada when I asked about his ice cider). This should also prevent you from concentrating the higher alcohols.

I'd backsweeten to taste after freeze concentration. If the freezing doesn't get the yeast, the high ABV will, so you should be able to avoid any restart of fermentation. Regards, GF.

scone said:

Now that freeze concentrating/distilling is officially legal...

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When did this become legal in the USA? Where is it written?

I am excited!

Salute!

bmckee56 said:

When did this become legal in the USA? Where is it written?

I am excited!

Salute!

Click to expand...

Someone on another thread mentioned that James stated it on Basic Brewing Radio...which one I do not know.

I get my legal advice from podcasts...

Teromous said:

I get my legal advice from podcasts...

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Here's the link, everyone can decide for themselves whether to trust it or not. I for one am definitely going to run with it.
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=february-20-2009-barleywine-ice-beer

Thanks for the advice everyone. Cryoextraction seems like a good bet, if a little labor intensive.

PTisch said:

Why not freeze and concentrate the AJ before fermenting and then ferment? This will give you a higher sugar content allowing you to have a sweet fermented beverage. I believe the process is called cryoextraction (at least that is the term used by a cider maker I met in Canada when I asked about his ice cider). This should also prevent you from concentrating the higher alcohols.

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Are you talking about less fusels or methanol, or something entirely different?

Also, all this begs the question: what if I just add a few cans of frozen apple juice concentrate to a few gallons of apple juice. That stuff is already concentrated thus making my life easier. I imagine I'll have to look around for one that doesn't have any preservatives.

PTisch said:

Why not freeze and concentrate the AJ before fermenting and then ferment? This will give you a higher sugar content allowing you to have a sweet fermented beverage. I believe the process is called cryoextraction (at least that is the term used by a cider maker I met in Canada when I asked about his ice cider). This should also prevent you from concentrating the higher alcohols.

Click to expand...

That is different, similar to the method of making ice wine where the grapes are pressed in lower temperatures to create a higher brix before fermentation. The yeast will attenuate as much as it can, and there will be plenty of sugar left over to remain sweet. Freezing after fermentation is used to separate the water from the alcohol resulting in a higher ABV.

Quote: Also, all this begs the question: what if I just add a few cans of frozen apple juice concentrate to a few gallons of apple juice. That stuff is already concentrated thus making my life easier. I imagine I'll have to look around for one that doesn't have any preservatives.[/QUOTE]

Using concentrate would also work well. Is is easy to find a preservative free concentrate from what I recall. Either way will work, it all depends on how much you are willing to put into the cider.

Let us know what you decide and how it works out. Good luck.

I'm still kicking ideas around for this one. You guys got me thinking about the apple juice concentrate...

Now I'm thinking I'm going to try using Lalvin EC-1118 and ferment at 60 degrees (hopefully end up with a nice clean cider, no fusels, no methanol. 1118 has massive alcohol tolerance so I thought I'd add enough apple juice concentrate to bring the ABV to 15%. Probably do it with stepped additions so I don't blow the airlock, and I think I'll do a half cup of molasses and a cup or two of really strong black tea in there as well.

I don't generally like 1118 since it leaves everything bone dry, but I can back sweeten easy enough once I've got it concentrated using a bit more apple juice concentrate. I'm hoping the molasses gives it a bit of body along with the tannins from the black tea.

I'm curious how this will turn out. When I had first built my kegerator it took a while to get my temp dialed in properly so unfortunately I had a couple freezing issues at first. Suffice it to say one night I had two pints of cider and was feeling much more than I should have. I pulled out the keg and gave it a little shake and heard the ice chunks bumping around in there. I let it melt and the next day I pulled a glass and it was very clear, looked like water. Luckily the keg had pretty much been finished off a couple days so I didn't waste much but it was interesting.

I tried this technique out on a regular (non-extreme ABV) batch of apfelwein. Mmmmm, so good. The original recipe was

2.5 g. apple juice
22 oz. raw clover honey
1 pkt. S-04

fermented in the low 60's/high 50's

I bottled most of it with 2.25 oz. of dextrose, but saved 1/2 gallon into a plastic jug. Note that I mixed the dextrose *before* I pulled the 1/2 gallon, so I probably added a touch of sweetness to it before freezing. Put it in the freezer until it was a near frozen-solid slush, and upended it over a jar. Here's a pic.



This yielded about 20 fl.oz, or what looked like about 1/3 the original volume (I hadn't filled the 1/2 gallon jug all the way). I freeze concentrated this again, but because I was careless in watching the run-off, I ended up only removing a very small amount of ice the second time. I didn't bother trying again. Final volume was about 16 fl oz.

Anyway, here's my notes on the finished product.



Appearance: Looks almost like it did before concentrating, nice golden color, perhaps a touch darker than the original apfelwein. I looks quite dark in the first pic, probably just the lightning.

Aroma: Pretty much smells like applewine, i can catch of hint of alcohol on the nose

Taste: Lots of apple taste, and a cloying sweetness. Despite the fact that afpelwein is really dry, this is very full bodied and has a really intense apple finish. I can definitely feel some warmth, although I can't imagine this is much over 15% right now.

Pretty awesome stuff, I can't wait to do another round but with a much stronger (higher ABV) apfelwein base to start with.

I'll was just browsing around and found this thread.

I jacked some of my simple cider this year that was a bit tart to begin with and after freezing out about 2/3 of it, boy is it tart. Nice and warm though. I like to drink an ounce of it on an ice cube. I liked it enough that I felt the need to make another 5 gallon batch of grams english cider and that will get some of it jacked.

I remember reading in the Alaskan Bootleggers Bible that you can't get much higher than 15-20% in your home freezer. I'll double check when I get home.