Why can't you just tip the cooler a bit to drain it all out?

When mashing in a rectangular cooler with a steel braid and batch sparging. Some liquid is gonna be below the outlet and not come out when you drain the runings. So why can't you just tip the cooler a bit to drain it better? Wouldn't this essentially eliminate the dead space and result in a higher efficiency?

i dont think it would raise your efficiency. the wort is as dense as its going to be. all the tipping would do is get you a few more ounces of wort. depending on how much you tip the grain may move which may or may not allow grain husks and what not to come out your spout. (assuming thats even an issue for you) it may also cause the grain to compact blocking drainage.

your just gong to have to try it and see what happens.

I don't see why it would hurt, I do it with a big brew kettle with a ball valve and no pick-up tube. Takes quite the 'tilt' to get it all out.

It will def improve efficiency. Lost wort is lost gravity is lost efficiency. Anytime you leave sugars behind you lose efficiency (you knew that just correcting the previous post).

I tip mine, but I mash in a beverage cooler and use a big paint strainer bag to hold my grain so it's not quite the same as having a braid.

TipsyDragon said:

i dont think it would raise your efficiency. the wort is as dense as its going to be. all the tipping would do is get you a few more ounces of wort.

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It's more then just a few ounces. Depending on how high the outlet is there could be as much as 1/2 gallon left in the MLT. That's an extra 1/2 gallon of wort. That must have some impact on the efficiency.

TipsyDragon said:

depending on how much you tip the grain may move which may or may not allow grain husks and what not to come out your spout. (assuming thats even an issue for you) it may also cause the grain to compact blocking drainage.

your just gong to have to try it and see what happens.

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I think I would tip it before doing the vorlauf OR drain it while it's level and then when it looks done tip it to get whatever is left in the dead space below the outlet. Either way the grain will not come out the spot as it's filtered thru a steel braid.

I guess I'll have to try and see.

SpanishCastleAle said:

I don't see why it would hurt, I do it with a big brew kettle with a ball valve and no pick-up tube. Takes quite the 'tilt' to get it all out.

It will def improve efficiency. Lost wort is lost gravity is lost efficiency. Anytime you leave sugars behind you lose efficiency (you knew that just correcting the previous post).

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So why doesn't everybody tip the MLT for a batch sparge? Seams like this should be common practice.

SpanishCastleAle said:

It will def improve efficiency. Lost wort is lost gravity is lost efficiency. Anytime you leave sugars behind you lose efficiency (you knew that just correcting the previous post).

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thats only true if your going to top off with plain water. the wort in your collection bucket and the little bit left in the tun are the same density. adding the little bit thats left won't magically change the density of the wort in the bucket.

now if you are going to top off with plain water then yes it will affect your efficiency because you will have to add just that much more water to get your target volume. thats why i top off in my brew pot and not in the fermenter. because when i rack from the pot to the fermenter there is about half a gallon of wort left and i would have to make that difference in volume up in the fermenter which will lower the SG.

Tipsy, anytime you leave sugars behind you reduce efficiency. 5.25 gal @ 1.050 is more sugars (for the same grain) than 5.0 gal @ 1.050. Simple beer math.

It's not just the gravity, it's the combination of gravity AND volume.

maida, That's a good question and I don't batch sparge so I can't really say. I would guess it's because if you set up the braid correctly you really shouldn't have any deadspace (at least that's my understanding of it).

TipsyDragon said:

thats only true if your going to top off with plain water. the wort in your collection bucket and the little bit left in the tun are the same density. adding the little bit thats left won't magically change the density of the wort in the bucket.

now if you are going to top off with plain water then yes it will affect your efficiency because you will have to add just that much more water to get your target volume. thats why i top off in my brew pot and not in the fermenter. because when i rack from the pot to the fermenter there is about half a gallon of wort left and i would have to make that difference in volume up in the fermenter which will lower the SG.

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I think your a little mixed up on the true definition of efficiency. But it's no big deal it's just numbers.

Add in that if you tip on the first runnings you're getting more of the thicker first runnings out before diluting it with your sparge water. I'd rather get every drop of those first runnings before I sparge.

I put a pair of shoes under one end of my MLT when draining to eliminate as much dead space as possible. I thought everyone did this.

I tip. Why would you leave good wort behind?

Ah, so all the tippers are coming out of the closet Maybe this is common practice. I've just never heard of it before. But I'm new to the AG thing.

I put a 2x4 under the back of the cooler to drain out that last little bit. It seems logical to me to get the most from my grains that I can.

manifold + siphon FTW!

Edcculus said:

manifold + siphon FTW!

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How does that work? Do you siphon the wort off the bottom? How do you control the speed of the siphon so that it does not collapse the grain bed? Or is that not really a problem?

Another tipper here even if my Coleman Extreme has a drain with sump liner allows no-tilt draining!

I have the Coleman Extreme, and I am a tilter!!! I place a 2x4 under the end. It does allow you to get more wort outeven with the bottom drain design. Give it a try.

I use a 2x4 with my Coleman Xtreme as well.

I mash in the 5 gallon igloo cooler and I use a braid and I tip that bad boy to make sure I can get all the liquid I can. Sometimes its a couple quarts

im a tipper! i am greedy and want to get all the wort i can in my kettle.

I tip and always have. Just seemed to make sense.

Never thought about it, just tipped it.

How about attaching a length of tubing to the drain port, then attaching the screen(bazooka/SS braid) to the tubing. The tubing will rest in the floor of the MLT and in theory should get most of the "leavins" through the siphon action.

Or am I just a moron and miss the entire point of this thread as I do from time to time?

maida7 said:

How does that work? Do you siphon the wort off the bottom? How do you control the speed of the siphon so that it does not collapse the grain bed? Or is that not really a problem?

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I have a ball valve bulkhead in the MLT. I attach a peice of hose to the outside hose barb and run it into the bottom of the BK. After it gets going, it creates a siphon as long as you don't take the hose out of the BK. I control the flow with the ball valve.

KevinW said:

How about attaching a length of tubing to the drain port, then attaching the screen(bazooka/SS braid) to the tubing. The tubing will rest in the floor of the MLT and in theory should get most of the "leavins" through the siphon action.

Or am I just a moron and miss the entire point of this thread as I do from time to time?

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This is what I do. I have a thick-walled 3/8" tube that's about 3-4" long. I have my heater hose SS braid zip-tied to that. This way, with the weight of the grain on it, it actually gets down to the bottom of the tun and leaves very little behind.

You mean to tell me some people DON'T tip?

I tip every time with whatever I happen to find in the kitchen at the moment. Sometimes it's an empty Powerade bottle, sometimes it's a blank CD spindle, other times it's a napping cat, but I ALWAYS tip. why wouldn't you tip???

I always tip and let my beverage cooler MLT continue to trickle well into the boil. I want all that good sugar.

Hello... My name is Kornbread, and I'm a tipper.

I gently lift the end farthest from my drain and slip a rolled up towel underneath.

I've always tipped mine to get every drop I can out. I doubt it helps efficiency much but more of a psychological thing. Certainly can't hurt anything.

SpanishCastleAle said:

Tipsy, anytime you leave sugars behind you reduce efficiency. 5.25 gal @ 1.050 is more sugars (for the same grain) than 5.0 gal @ 1.050. Simple beer math.

It's not just the gravity, it's the combination of gravity AND volume.

maida, That's a good question and I don't batch sparge so I can't really say. I would guess it's because if you set up the braid correctly you really shouldn't have any deadspace (at least that's my understanding of it).

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As far as I understand efficiency, it's the percentage of potential sugars available that have actually been converted from the starch. Add to that what you manage to extract during the sparge and you have your efficiency. Any numbers after that depend entirely on those ratios. Leaving behind wort may affect your gravity but not your efficiency.

Regardless, I do tip my tun to get out the last part of the wort.

Why not?

OMG...of course you can tip your tun,,,but w/ a double batch sparge and bulk grain...how much can ya squeeze a rock...livin easy

manticle said:

As far as I understand efficiency, it's the percentage of potential sugars available that have actually been converted from the starch. Add to that what you manage to extract during the sparge and you have your efficiency. Any numbers after that depend entirely on those ratios. Leaving behind wort may affect your gravity but not your efficiency.

Regardless, I do tip my tun to get out the last part of the wort.

Why not?

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It most certainly does affect efficiency. Brewhouse efficiency is total sugars extracted divided by potential sugars extracted. If you leave sugar in the mash tun, you lower the total sugars extracted, lowering your efficiency.

People are overly obsessed with efficiency if you ask me. If I want 6 gallons of wort post boil and I've already collected my required 8 gallons of pre-boil wort at my target gravity, I see no reason to collect an extra half gallon of 1.020 wort. What's the point?

Now I'll tip a mash tun if needed to collect my target pre-boil volume, but once I have that I don't care about some sugar points left behind. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I can't say I understand what it is.

StunnedMonkey said:

Now I'll tip a mash tun if needed to collect my target pre-boil volume, but once I have that I don't care about some sugar points left behind. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I can't say I understand what it is.

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Yeah, if you're doing multiple batch sparges, the last runnings are pretty thin and won't have a big effect on your gravity. I like to leave the dead space as extra security in case I don't reach my pre-boil volume. If I need it, I tilt, otherwise not.

I tip every time. I collect first running, including tip runnings, then measure what I collected. That tells me exactly how much sparge water to add. At that point I will get out exactly what I put in with zero wasted sugars, hitting my pre boil volume perfectly every time.

I don't tip, I have a hose barb inside my round MLT. A 4" piece of tube that is curved has a heavy brass tee (I just know I'll get lead poisoning) rests on the bottom center of the MLT to which a long braid is triple looped around (think 3 concentric circles,sorta). So I get a siphon similar to a false bottom plus dip tube, Leaves ~16-20 oz. behind versus 60+ oz. with braid connected right to the initial barb. A picture would be worth all these words, or less.

I tip but its all about getting my pre-boil volume. I just hate to leave anything behind. Efficiency is the last thing I'm concerned with. I'll take a measurement after I have my volume just so I know where I'm starting at.

I haven't read this whole thread, but the answer is you can. You could also put an offset in a piece of soft copper tubing to get the braid on the bottom of the cooler so you wouldn't need to tilt the cooler.

As far as higher efficiency goes.. What is left behind in dead space after the last sparge, is the diluted portion of wort of the last runnings gravity.

I treat dead space as an add on to the recipe batches water needed. If you lose 2 qts in the mash/lauter tun, then 2 qts extra is needed so the diluted portion of the last sparge is left behind.

When building a recipe.. what is left behind in the hops absorbtion, boiler dead space, racking from one/two fermenters, bottling bucket, is added to the batch size, so if you lose a gallon on the back end, you need to formulate your recipe for 6 gals instead of 5 gals.

maida7 said:

When mashing in a rectangular cooler with a steel braid and batch sparging. Some liquid is gonna be below the outlet and not come out when you drain the runings. So why can't you just tip the cooler a bit to drain it better? Wouldn't this essentially eliminate the dead space and result in a higher efficiency?

Click to expand...

There's no reason you can't tip it. I've started doing it just to see how much I was leaving behind. Usually it's no more than a cup or 2, but sometimes it's been as much as a qt.