WLP644 -Brett B Trois

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Next time I use it for primary in an IPA, I will not aerate. I aerated like normal the first time I used it and it does create some acid. It's just barely there and reminds me of the acidity in orange or cranberry juice but at a much much lower level.
 
I currently have two beers fermenting with this yeast, an IPA hopped with Citra/Zythos/Centennial and a version of this:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/zest-bomb-citrus-wheat-pale-ale-264163/

Should be interesting.

I've noticed that it seems to be taking a decent while to clear, at 1.5 weeks the first one is still really cloudy. I think I should dry hop it right now anyways though, make sense?
 
The LHBS owner just scored me a vial from his connection that has another store. I'm planning on some simple 1-gallon recipes to expand the pipeline and also to wash a BUNCH of this strain so I won't have to try to find it again. Every few weeks since January I have gone in and asked if he could order it. "It's a year-round strain now," I would say. "Alright, 644.........I'm not seeing it," he would reply. I'm definitely going to bring a bottle to share with him!
 
This thread gives me some things to think about. I have a starter going right now and plan on making some sort of IPA with it :)
 
Brewed up a simple NZ pale ale (...again, just love how the subtle hints of tropical citrus pairs with this bretts mango and pineapple esters)

3gal Batch
4pds 2-row
1 pd Munich
.5 Carapils
4oz cane sugar (BIAB, sugar used to hit target gravity of .048 due to low efficiency.)

.5oz 13% Pacific Jade @FWH (38IBU)
.25oz Motueka 7.5% @15 (5IBU)
.25oz Motueka 7.5% @3 (1IBU)

Sample tasted like golden graham cereal
Pitched jar from last batch about 2 months ago, brought to room temp, decanted and pitched about 30ml of thick slurry. Airated by shaking.
Will report back!

SG 1048
FG 1004
75% Att

This is Brett Brux Trois 644 and RR Brux dregs (drie?)

Im getting a slight corn aroma not cooked but raw slighty startchy, bready malt(munich) and a pinch of acidity as it warms. Is this normal for this strain? I did ferment really low around 62-64 but whats bothering me is my last batch (belgian blonde with pilsner malt with wlp530) ended up being a band aid bomb, starting with off cooked corn flavors which i is the funny thing when i took a sample i get no off flavors. Im assuming its because its still very green but i hope i dont have a DMS problem? I do full rapid boils for 60min (90 for pilsner) Can dimelthy sulfide be caused by any other factors? Now that im thinking about it, my filter COULD use replacement. Cloramines could cause these phenols??....might of just answered my problem
 
badlee said:
I did mine:D
10 litres
2lbs each of munich,vienna and pale
250gr flaked wheat 200gr crystal wheat and 50 gr carafa 3
Mashed at 69c for an hour.
Hopped with an oz of Zythos at 15,10 and 5.
Pitched at 8 in the morning ant wen out. Came back 30 hours later to find the krausen subsided and my house taken over by ripe fruit hoppy maltyness. I cant wait to drink it.

It can't chill fast enough in my hotel fridge. I'm looking forward to quite the treat in the Chiang Mai heat. Thanks, Lee.
 
MattHollingsworth said:
Great thread!

Thoughts on any of this?

It's probably too late to chime in on your recipe, but I would personally back off on the ibu. From what I understand, Brett will accentuate bitterness (and roast malt astringency for that matter).

I can't say that I've done any side by sides, by the Brett IPA I did was around 1.1 BU:GU and came across as very bitter. It did mellow out over time and of course we drank the whole keg, but there was a period of a couple weeks to a month where I just did not want to touch it. I've had better results with ibu closer to .5 BU:GU ... Although calling it an IPA at that point is another question.

Good luck!
 
It's probably too late to chime in on your recipe, but I would personally back off on the ibu. From what I understand, Brett will accentuate bitterness (and roast malt astringency for that matter).

I can't say that I've done any side by sides, by the Brett IPA I did was around 1.1 BU:GU and came across as very bitter. It did mellow out over time and of course we drank the whole keg, but there was a period of a couple weeks to a month where I just did not want to touch it. I've had better results with ibu closer to .5 BU:GU ... Although calling it an IPA at that point is another question.

Good luck!

Naw, you're not too late. I'll brew it in about 13 days.

It's inspired by this recipe here, which is 96 ibus. Mine's only 54 and also uses much less hops in general. I put mine closer in range with the other Belgian IPAs I've made lately.

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2012/07/100-brett-trois-ipa-recipe.html

I'll try 48.5 ibus, which is a ratio of .723, but I don't think I want to go lower than that with an IPA. A ratio of .5 would be only 33-34 ibus, which I certainly do not want. Thanks for your input though. Charting unknown territory for me, so good to hear from folks. I don't typically like crazy high hopping rates or bitterness so my recipes often use much less than I see online a lot of times. I've brewed those crazy hoppy beers and they're usually not for me.
 
. From what I understand, Brett will accentuate bitterness (and roast malt astringency for that matter).

IME, a primary with brett will accentuate bitterness no more than chico as it attenuates about the same. Brett trois especially is so fruity you don't need to worry about it. Bitter as you would a normal IPA.
 
IME, a primary with brett will accentuate bitterness no more than chico as it attenuates about the same. Brett trois especially is so fruity you don't need to worry about it. Bitter as you would a normal IPA.

Thanks. I'll use my Belgian IPAs as standards and go from that.
 
My Brett Trios arrived. It's dated September 1st as the best by date but says that the packaging date is 4 months prior to that. Isn't exactly true, eh? That'd mean they packaged it in the future and sent it back in time to me. Fresher than fresh!

Looks like they just recycled the text from the normal yeast packages. So, what is it, 6 months then, packaged on March 1st?

I'll make a starter tonight and step it up in a few days. Intending to brew in about 10 days.
 
My Brett Trios arrived. It's dated September 1st as the best by date but says that the packaging date is 4 months prior to that. Isn't exactly true, eh? That'd mean they packaged it in the future and sent it back in time to me. Fresher than fresh!

Looks like they just recycled the text from the normal yeast packages. So, what is it, 6 months then, packaged on March 1st?

I'll make a starter tonight and step it up in a few days. Intending to brew in about 10 days.

Check the year. It's probably from last year.

+1 to the starter.
 
Check the year. It's probably from last year.

+1 to the starter.

Nope, it's from this year.

By +1 you mean to add a step to the starter? My aim is to do 2-3 steps, depending on how fast it goes. My intention is to brew in 10 days. I think I might be able to squeeze in 3 steps, but I've heard these go a little slower than regular yeast, so we'll see.
 
No my recent ones are the same.

IMG_5310.jpg
 
MattHollingsworth said:
My Brett Trios arrived. It's dated September 1st as the best by date but says that the packaging date is 4 months prior to that. Isn't exactly true, eh? That'd mean they packaged it in the future and sent it back in time to me.

White labs expiration date for Brett is six months I believe.
 
Nope, it's from this year.

By +1 you mean to add a step to the starter? My aim is to do 2-3 steps, depending on how fast it goes. My intention is to brew in 10 days. I think I might be able to squeeze in 3 steps, but I've heard these go a little slower than regular yeast, so we'll see.

I just meant definitely do a starter if it was from last year. Since it's from this year, I'd only do a starter if your batch size and OG dictate you need one. :ban:
 
I brewed my Brett Trois IPA yesterday.

Starter was done in three steps. Step 1 was ~400ml, fermented at 70F for 2 days, then Step 2 added ~650 ml, fermented 3 days, then Step 3 added 1150 ml and fermented for 3 days. 8 days total. Put in the fridge to chill for decanting for a full 3days (so, 11 days total, start to finish for those planning their starters), but when it came time to pitch, only about the top half of the starter was settled. Still milky in the bottom half. So, I decanted down from 2200 ml to about 900 ml, drank the sample and pitched the rest.

Oh, these were all on a stirplate turned up to high the entire time. The first step was pretty mild in its behavior. The second step was pretty active, lots of bubbles but no krauesen. Third step went crazy, but I used fermcap as I had about 2200 ml in a 2 liter flask, so it had no krauesen but it seemed like it might have if I hadn't used that. When it settled out on the bottom of the flask for decanting, it looked like a slightly smaller amount of yeast than when I make a 2 liter starter with my usual yeast, but as I said, it was milky in the bottom half, which I also pitched.

When the starter was fermenting, the smell coming off of it was incredible. To say it smelled of "overripe fruit" might be a bit forgiving. I would say it smelled more like rotting fruit. It was not entirely pleasant, but not entirely unpleasant. I think there's something built into the brain that tells you that that smell indicates that something is rotting and that you shouldn't eat it, like it's hard wired into us.

That said, I was very curious to see what it tasted like. I was disappointed to drink the leftover starter and see that that character wasn't in the beer. It was a lot cleaner than I expected. It was certainly nothing like the usual Belgian ale kind of fruitiness. The flavor of the grain reminded me of what one would get from Wyeast 1056. Overlaying that was a pleasant and soft fruitiness with a lemony tartness. That tartness was nice. I suppose this is that touch of acetic that people talk about. It's nice, but I don't know if I want it in the finished beer or not. In the starter, though, it was fine. Nothing huge, nothing horrible. The fruit character is hard to define. I'm not good at describing subtle nuances in yeast character, but it didn't remind me of the usual Belgian character at all. It was very nice, though. And totally unexpected that it didn't seem very different from just normal Saccharomyces.

This was pitched Sunday around 6PM at around 64. No oxygen was used this time, just shook the fermenter. I let it warm to 70 as I had wanted to pitch a touch warmer. The next morning, today, at 7AM, the fermenter is going crazy. This is a 27 liter batch, so what, over 7 gallons? It has a huge krauesen and is fermenting like crazy, giving off a mixed fruity hoppy aroma that I am sad is leaving the beer. Looks like a totally normal fermentation that had a good sized starter pitched.

I'll report back later on progress.
 
Back in Nov of last year I used this yeast to make a tripel with mostly pilsner LME, a little wheat DME, palm sugar and thai basil. It's a really nice beer that I would like to enter into a competition coming up. There's the ongoing discussion of adding brett primaried beers to the BJCP style guidelines but it still hasn't happened yet. So where should I enter this? Under 23 Specialty Beer? If I need to move this to another or it's own thread, I can.

Thanks,
GTG
 
If it tastes like a tripel that's how I'd enter it, if not you could enter it in belgian specialty. However if it's tough to classify I wouldn't enter it at all if you have hopes of doing well. You could have made a killer beer but if they don't know how to judge it then it won't do well. For this reason I stopped entering comps altogether.
 
I agree (and I'm a bjcp judge). It sounds like it would be 16E, Belgian Specialty. However, if it's tough to describe/categorize in comparison to recognized beer styles then, I personally wouldn't enter it even if it's great.
I still enter comps but only with straightforward beers that fit nicely within a category or, if entering a specialty beer, a very definable derivative of an existing style. Stuff that's hard to categorize is hard to judge and, even if delicious, will probably only receive mediocre scores.
 
Back in Nov of last year I used this yeast to make a tripel with mostly pilsner LME, a little wheat DME, palm sugar and thai basil. It's a really nice beer that I would like to enter into a competition coming up. There's the ongoing discussion of adding brett primaried beers to the BJCP style guidelines but it still hasn't happened yet. So where should I enter this? Under 23 Specialty Beer? If I need to move this to another or it's own thread, I can.

I've scored very well with two 100% brett beers (39 as a 100% Brett IPA in 23 and 37 (and 2nd place) as 100% brett blond in 16E), but I'm with smokinghole you're better off entering as a tripel if it tastes like a tripel. my 100% brett tripel they even said should've just been entered as a tripel cuz they couldnt tell. most judges don't know what it should be like and search for the more commonly known funk that's not there.

edit: missed the basil part, 16E regardless of whether u mention brett or not if it tastes like a tripel.
 
If it tastes like a tripel then enter it as a tripel. If it tastes like a tripel with Thai basil then enter it as Belg. Spec.

However, if its flavor is much more complicated than that to define then I stand behind my recommendation to skip the comp with this one.

When you describe it as a tripel then the judges are going to be looking for the characteristic flavors of a tripel, an awful lot of which are yeast-derived. If the B Trois didn't produce similar flavors then it's probably not going to score well being called a tripel (with or without basil) regardless of how good it is.
When you muddy the description it really is hard to judge. Saying something like, "it's kinda like a tripel only with a different yeast(brett) and resultant yeast-derived flavors and, oh yeah, I added Thai basil," in the description/special ingredient box probably isn't going to result in a super high score despite how tasty it might be.
 
smokinghole, WilliamWS and dcp27 thanks for the feedback. I entered it as a 16 E. I think its a great beer and so does everyone else that's tried it. My friends aren't experts by any means but I have a good feeling for this beer placing well. I entered a peach saison with brett c and a galangal saison as well that I think might get good reviews as well. I'll report back with the results for the tripel after the competition.
Thanks,
GTG
 
If anyone is interested I finally posted some tasting notes on my blog for the Brett Trois farmhouse ale I brewed (blog link in signature below). I think of most interest to folks here is that the beer has held up great after 10 months in the bottle. It has changed from the incredible fruit bomb when it was young to something much more subtle. Still delicious. And the brett continued to work on it over the months, really drying it out - glad i purposely under-primed the bottles! I have a couple more bottles still, but wish I had even more.

threshing_ale.jpg
 
I recently made a Witbier with WLP644....one of the best beer that I made recently. The esters from WLP644 nicely complemented the Curacao and coriander spices. Moreover, it appears that aging is improving the aroma and taste of witbier (I known that Wits should be drink younger, but Brett WLP644 is adding a new dimension to the beer....tropical taste, a malty backbone with a drier finish). I'm really impressed with WLP644. Lot's of potential for Belgian beer styles. I am thinking in to use WLP644 in a dunkelweizen now.
 
The saison I made with 644 and wyeast 3726 is starting to age very well. I was less than impressed after the first month in bottles, like the 100% 644 beer I did... But after 2 months in bottles its getting better and better. Really soft fruit flavors, peach and mango. The styrian goldings worked really well to balance the fruitiness. I dont know what it is, but in my experience with the 644 in the 100% 644 beer I made, this saison, and my imperial brett porter, it seems to just needs time in the bottles under pressure to really shine. I need to stop drinking them and set them aside for a long while to see what they develop into.

The saison did alright in comp - scored a 33, but I can tell from the comments the judges were expecting a really funky farmhouse character because I mentioned brett. I just dont think this strain produces these flavors. At least under the conditions I have used it in.
 
My Saison with 644 is tasting a little bit better now thats been in the bottle over 6 months. But I still think this strain doesn't work for me in a Saison, it's very fruity which is awesome but it comes across as an under attenuated Saison, almost cloying even.

On the other hand, the IPA I did with 644 is fantastic. The fruitiness just goes amazingly with the big citrus notes of the hop bill I used. I like my IPAs with moderate bitterness and big citrus/pine and it works perfectly.
 
Coff said:
My Saison with 644 is tasting a little bit better now thats been in the bottle over 6 months. But I still think this strain doesn't work for me in a Saison, it's very fruity which is awesome but it comes across as an under attenuated Saison, almost cloying even.

On the other hand, the IPA I did with 644 is fantastic. The fruitiness just goes amazingly with the big citrus notes of the hop bill I used. I like my IPAs with moderate bitterness and big citrus/pine and it works perfectly.

It's awesome to hear how it did with an ipa, I have my trois, Nelson in bottles at 1 1/2 wks right now and it's taking every ounce of self control not to crack one open. I plan to keep a Brett ipa in rotation always.
 
Here's a blog write-up of my recent 100% Trois Imperial IPA. Definitely something I'll be returning to often, with a few tweaks to the recipe. It's been one of my most popular batches among friends. I really think Trois works best in hoppy beers.

Some advice for anyone brewing one: mash low-ish and consider adding some sugar to the grain bill, and make up for the thin body with a good percentage of wheat, oats or rye. Avoid crystal malt or anything that will make the beer overly sweet; Trois can create a sweet fruity "tang" that overpowers even copious amounts of hops, so you want the beer to finish as dry as possible. The beer certainly won't lack flavor.
 
Has anyone done a fermentation with this yeast blended with WLP001 or WLP002? And I noticed earlier in the threat people were saying that not aerating it will produce more "fruity" flavors as apposed to more funky. What is the preferred fermentation temperature for this strain?
 
Tasted my Brett trois and Nelson sauvign pale ale today for the first time and its awesome. I need to do the same recipe but with 1056 to see how much the Brett really adds.

image-2347151796.jpg
 
Just brewed my first Trois IPA. OG 1.064 down to 1.023 5 days after pitching, 2oz Colombus @ 60, 1oz Nelson @ whirlpool, 1oz going dry hop and 1oz in the keg. Already getting crazy tropical fruit/white wine type aromas, and at ~75 IBUs the bitterness is very subdued as of now. Can't wait to see what the finished product morphs into.
 
The saison I made with 644 and wyeast 3726 is starting to age very well. I was less than impressed after the first month in bottles, like the 100% 644 beer I did... But after 2 months in bottles its getting better and better. Really soft fruit flavors, peach and mango. The styrian goldings worked really well to balance the fruitiness. I dont know what it is, but in my experience with the 644 in the 100% 644 beer I made, this saison, and my imperial brett porter, it seems to just needs time in the bottles under pressure to really shine. I need to stop drinking them and set them aside for a long while to see what they develop into.

The saison did alright in comp - scored a 33, but I can tell from the comments the judges were expecting a really funky farmhouse character because I mentioned brett. I just dont think this strain produces these flavors. At least under the conditions I have used it in.

I'm curious, how long did you leave it in the fermentor before bottling? I recently added some 644 to a saison thatdidn't dry out the way I planned, and I am wondering if I should let it bulk-age in the fermentor for a while, as with sours?

Thanks.
 
Yeast is on the way. May as well subscribe.


I'm going to be using it as the primary strain in a sanctification-esque beer and prolly use it in some of my hop forward recipes.

Excited to keep this one on hand.
 
My Brett Trois IPA was a huge hit. Made it for a homebrewers party and people adored it, me included. Blew the keg in about 20 minutes for ~26 liters.

An amazing fruitiness that I've seen from no other yeast. Works great with hops. I used Chinook, Citra and Galaxy hops and they worked really nicely with that yeast. The yeast is just as everyone says, IMHO, for 100% Brett fermentations. Huge fruit presence, no funk. Interesting character that you can somehow tell isn't Sacch.

I drank some of the starter, which curiously didn't have the same crazy fruitiness and was much more mild. Wondering if this yeast is sort of symbiotic with hops, if more hops bring out that fruit character. Anybody getting the crazy fruit in less hoppy beers with this yeast?

Second use of the yeast was a stronger Amber ale with a lot of rye in it and Galaxy hops. About 12 days in and still fermenting. Haven't drawn a sample yet. Curious to see how it handles rye.

Two weeks from now, I will make a Zero ibu Imperial IPA with it with 100 grams each of Nelson Sauvin, Chinook and Citra after the boil's been turned off and no other hops for a 20 liter batch. I'm going to dose it with a smaller amount of the regular Brett Brux as well, combined yeast.
 
I drank some of the starter, which curiously didn't have the same crazy fruitiness and was much more mild. Wondering if this yeast is sort of symbiotic with hops, if more hops bring out that fruit character. Anybody getting the crazy fruit in less hoppy beers with this yeast?

Some recent research has revealed certain enzymes produced by the yeast cleave bonds on hop compounds producing aromatic and flavor compounds that the hops do not contain prefermentation. So adding hop products post fermentation like some industrial light beer breweries do lack the fermented hop oil complexity of a fermented hop. Then again its not like their beers have any hop complexity anyhow but when analyzed on a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer there is a difference.
 
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