All my batches have a sharp 'bite' to them

The best way to describe it is a little acidic tasting. I've done 2 batches now and they both have that same sharp characteristic to it.

Both extract kits, both dry yeast. First time I fermented too hot, 70-75. 2nd time I watched it more carefully and kept it around 65 degrees. My first thought was too hot of fermentation, but the 2nd batch has the same ill effects and was properly controlled.

2.5 weeks primary, 3 weeks bottled. Most recent one was fridged for 5 days and the first one has been in the fridge for weeks and it still has the bite to it.

I looked up my tap water company and they use chlorine, not chloramine, so it should boil out and not effect the flavor. If anyone understands what I'm talking about with this 'bite' and could offer some insight on what it could be that would be great.

Edit: when I say extract I mean the kits with malt extract, steeping grains, and hops to boil. Not the canned hopped malt extract ones.

If it helps I looked up the two yeasts I used. The first one was a left over Mr Beer dry ale yeast (Bought some extract and messed around with my own recipe in a 2 gal batch) and the 2nd was the Muton's dry yeast that came with my Midwest Irish red extract kit. After looking up these yeasts, they both seem crappy. Could this contribute to the off flavors? Maybe instead of Acidic it's more of a yeasty off flavor? Will more aging help clear them?

a lot of people who use extract will pick up some sort of bite/twang/whatever you want to call it from the extract. How are you adding the extract, are you using liquid extract or DME? Are you adding it to the boil for the full 60 mins? This could play a big part in what you are picking up. I think you are right to also look towards the water, yeast, and fermentation temps. Obviously the warm ferment will add off flavors, but since you are picking it up on the one fermented at cooler temps it seems like the problem is somewhere else. I'm no expert on water chemistry but there are certain compounds that can contribute to off flavors. One simple option is to buy a 2.5g thingy of bottled spring water for a couple bucks and use that next time. I typically use bottled water for my AG batches. As for yeast, the cheapo dry yeast that comes with the kits is often not that great. I'd suggest grabbing something else, if sticking with dry go with notty or S-05 or whatever works for you. This might not fix this exact problem but it could certainly improve the quality of the brew you're making for a relatively low cost. If pinching pennies just read up on yeast washing and you can re-use some of your yeast from previous batches.

check these threads out:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/extract-twang-303678/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/extract-twang-what-54434/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/possible-extract-twang-explanation-32621/

I have a batch going right now using WLP300 (hefe) so if that comes out good I'm hoping it was just poor temp/yeast. As for the extract The Irish red (2nd batch) used 5lb liquid 1lb dry (if I recall correctly) and the first one I also split it, but don't remember the split (had liquid sitting around, bought a little more dry to get desired gravity.)

If my current one comes out poorly, the next thing I was going to try was swap to bottled water. I also added a campden to the water before getting started to eliminate any possible chlorine/cholramine off flavors.

I was thinking about taking a bottle down to the LHBS and seeing if they could dissect it :cross:

Edit: Thanks for those links, I'll definitely read up on em later today and hopefully find some positive information.

Sounds like it could very well be a water issue. Pick up some RO water for your next batch and give that a shot. The malt extract has all the minerals the brew will need so there is no need to try to make any additions to it...if you were all grain, that would be a different story. If want to use tap water you should at least run it through a carbon filter or get some campden tablets to remove the chlorine. Even if the chlorine is removed, other minerals in your water could be throwing it off, so I would at least try one batch with the RO water. If you are still getting that "bite", then you can start looking into other issues.

I added a campden tablet to the water beforehand on the batch that's going right now so we'll see if that helps in any way. If not I'll definitely try picking up some bottled water jugs for my next brew and see if it's a water issue.

In the meantime I took the bottles out the fridge and am gonna let em sit for a few more weeks and see if things are improving.

Keep the suggestions coming, every bit helps in narrowing down the culprit.

yeah definitely check those links on extract twang since you used LME for both batches. You may be picking up some of that, especially if you were boiling the extract for very long. When I was doing extract batches I always boiled it for the full 60 mins and didn't notice it but my palate doesn't seem to be very sensitive to some of these things.

I would steep for however long it recommended (15-30 minutes), remove from heat & add LME + DME, turn heat back on and boil for 60 minutes with the hop additions as directed, cool then pitch. I'm not sure what those threads say because I haven't had a chance to read em, but I definitely will later tonight because it seems to be related.

Acyr90 said:

If it helps I looked up the two yeasts I used. The first one was a left over Mr Beer dry ale yeast (Bought some extract and messed around with my own recipe in a 2 gal batch) and the 2nd was the Muton's dry yeast that came with my Midwest Irish red extract kit. After looking up these yeasts, they both seem crappy. Could this contribute to the off flavors? Maybe instead of Acidic it's more of a yeasty off flavor? Will more aging help clear them?

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Yes, those are crappy yeast strains alright. That could be part of it. But I wonder if your water has lots of bicarbonate and that's where some of the sharpness is coming from.

If this next batch comes out ok, then you know it was the yeast. If it's still got that "bite", then I'd suggest using purchased water. Those "water machines" in some grocery stores and Walmarts produce cheap reverse osmosis water, and that would be a great choice for water for brewing.

Acyr90 said:

I would steep for however long it recommended (15-30 minutes), remove from heat & add LME + DME, turn heat back on and boil for 60 minutes with the hop additions as directed, cool then pitch. I'm not sure what those threads say because I haven't had a chance to read em, but I definitely will later tonight because it seems to be related.

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I wouldn't do that.

I'd steep, and the bring to a boil and add about a pound of extract for every gallon of water in the boil. Continue with the boil, adding hops when directed, and then add the rest of the extract at flame out. This would make a huge difference in the flavor and color of the beer (less maillard reactions) and a better beer all around.

I've heard that suggestion before, but since it was my first 5 gal batch I wanted to follow directions haha. So if I'm boiling 4.5 gals (counting boil-off) add about 4# extract at the beginning of boil and then the remaining 2# at flame out? I'll have to try that next time as well. Is either LME or DME more critical to add at a certain time or can I swap them depending on how it measures out.

The kit directions are excellent at getting a fire started. Just ignore everything they say, roll it up real tight, but them under your firewood and light it.

I experienced a twangy after taste in my first extract kit hefeweizen. It was a bite that finished a little sour on the back of the tongue. Kinda reminded me of...an orange peel? It just had a slight chemical taste to it and I never could figure it out.

I was told it came from pitching my yeast at almost 85 degrees. I also fermented at 68-70 degrees for 13 days. The banana smell shines through but not so much the flavor. I've noticed that almost 4 weeks in the bottle did help mellow the tang a bit, but it's still pronounced enough to notice.

It's drinkable but it has a sour/tart finish. I'd hesitate to use the word bitter.

FYI: Here's the kit I used.
http://www.americanbrewmaster.com/American-Classic-Hefeweissen

Hmm, my thermometer only goes down to 100 degrees F so I just guess when it's dropped below 80. I might also be pitching at too high of temps.

Anyone else experience similar results from warm pitch temps? If I had to guess I'd say it was 85 when I pitched.

BlackGoat said:

The kit directions are excellent at getting a fire started. Just ignore everything they say, roll it up real tight, but them under your firewood and light it.

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Hmm what's a good standard to go by when brewing extract kits then? Is there a sticky here? Unfortunately I can't view stickies on my phone

Acyr90 said:

Hmm, my thermometer only goes down to 100 degrees F so I just guess when it's dropped below 80. I might also be pitching at too high of temps.

Anyone else experience similar results from warm pitch temps? If I had to guess I'd say it was 85 when I pitched.

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Yes, that's way too warm. I'd suggest getting good thermometer and pitching the yeast at 65 degrees (or lower) for better results.

What are the concequences of pitching into hot wert besides the obvious killing the yeast? Could this be the cause of the of flavors I'm describing?

Acyr90 said:

What are the concequences of pitching into hot wert besides the obvious killing the yeast? Could this be the cause of the of flavors I'm describing?

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Pitching at too high a temp means that the "wrong" kind of alcohol is being produced. I haven't done this yet, but summer is coming ....

I pitched my first 2 batches at 80-82f and both had sharp tastes. 3rd beer I got better control of temps and it was better but still off. I found out my water has chloramine and 4th batch I used campden, pitched at 65 and used a swamp cooler to keep fermentor temps between 62-65. It and all following batches have been great.

Thanks for all the replies, it might be pitching temps so ill watch that as well next time. Its practically summer weather here already (so cal) so I do use a swamp cooler to maintain 65 degrees, but I never pitch that low. I always figured the yeast won't start right away so I had some cushion room to get it down but apparently I need to rethink my theory lol

If my hefe comes out good ill blame the water (used campden in it) but if it's also sharp I'm gonna go with user error on pitching temps.

Also, will these sharp tastes mellow out over time or is this one of those few unfixables?

billpaustin said:

Pitching at too high a temp means that the "wrong" kind of alcohol is being produced. I haven't done this yet, but summer is coming ....

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That's good information. A lot of people who have tasted my beer say it tastes "strong." I can't taste anything other than the bitter finish but they claim it has a very strong alcohol taste. If I try hard enough, I suppose I can smell the slightest hint of rubbing alcohol.

Johnson1522 said:

That's good information. A lot of people who have tasted my beer say it tastes "strong." I can't taste anything other than the bitter finish but they claim it has a very strong alcohol taste. If I try hard enough, I suppose I can smell the slightest hint of rubbing alcohol.

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That's a classic sign of "fusel" alcohols- the higher chained alcohols that produce a "boozy" flavor and "hot" flavors as well as created headaches. High fermentation temperature is a classic cause of fusel alcohols.

Pitching temperature is crucial, as that is when the yeast reproduce and much of the esters (fruity flavors) are formed before signs of fermentation take place.

Yooper said:

That's a classic sign of "fusel" alcohols- the higher chained alcohols that produce a "boozy" flavor and "hot" flavors as well as created headaches. High fermentation temperature is a classic cause of fusel alcohols.

Pitching temperature is crucial, as that is when the yeast reproduce and much of the esters (fruity flavors) are formed before signs of fermentation take place.

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Now the fun part, how to 'fix' it. Should I let it sit at room temp or leave it in he fridge? I'd assume room temp so the yeast can go back to work, but you know what they say about assumptions...

Acyr90 said:

Now the fun part, how to 'fix' it. Should I let it sit at room temp or leave it in he fridge? I'd assume room temp so the yeast can go back to work, but you know what they say about assumptions...

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Ah, well that's the issue. Fusels don't age out, unfortunately.

& that's what I was afraid of hah. Chalk it up as a learning experience!

I wouldn't say that mine have faded but I think other flavors have stepped up to help mask the bite as it's aged. Either that or I'm getting used to the taste.

For me, they're a little easier to drink if they're ice cold.

Johnson1522 said:

For me, they're a little easier to drink if they're ice cold.

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Kinda like a BMC

grem135 said:

Kinda like a BMC

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You're right. I should have said "Bad tasting beers are easier to drink if they're ice cold."

Like my first that had sharp bite it. But then it still tasted better being my first HB. I bet you feel the same way.