Irish Red suggestions, thoughts?

Hey guys I've been throwing this recipe around for a while, I can never seem to land on a final version. I know i would like to lager it and I chose 2042 Danish Lager because its one of my favorites and should lend a dry finish.

How does it's latest iteration look? Oh, and the odd grain amounts are because it was originally scaled down from 11 gallons.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Finnigan's Wake
Brewer: Rick Etshman
Asst Brewer:
Style: Irish Red Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (0.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.11 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 14.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 24.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.22 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 74.0 %
2.09 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 18.8 %
0.28 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.5 %
0.26 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 2.3 %
0.13 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 1.2 %
0.13 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 1.2 %
1.25 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.30%] (60 min) Hops 20.1 IBU
0.50 oz Williamette [4.60%] (20 min) Hops 4.2 IBU
1 Pkgs Danish Lager (Wyeast Labs #2042) Yeast-Lager


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 11.11 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 3.44 gal of water at 168.5 F 153.0 F 60 min

I haven't heard of anyone doing an Irish red as a lager before. While your Danish yeast may be a drier lager yeast, you're not really going to get a dry finish with that much vienna/munich/crystal.

If you want to try it with the lager yeast, by all means do. I rarely stick to style as well. But if you want this to be recognizable as an "irish red", swap your yeast for an ale yeast.

You are probably right about the finish, I'm hoping it may help with the perception a bit at least. I know some commercial examples use lager strains, and I think it could be an interesting beer outside of all the usual Irish red's. Of course I would hope to create something far away from and better than Killian's.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but how in the heck do you guys measure out 8.22 lbs of xxxxx or 1.08lbs of xxxxxx? Do you guys own a digital scale or do you round up/down?????

I own an analog scale and just round up or down.....just wondering.

rjebrewer said:

You are probably right about the finish, I'm hoping it may help with the perception a bit at least. I know some commercial examples use lager strains, and I think it could be an interesting beer outside of all the usual Irish red's. Of course I would hope to create something far away from and better than Killian's.

Click to expand...

But...Killian's IS Irish Red. That's one of those imaginary beer styles based
on a brand name. If you want something that doesn't taste like Killians,
then you want a different style, like a pale ale, or a bitter.

Ray

I think you are not getting what I'm saying. I want it to be in the same style as Killian's, I am just hoping the result would be more flavorful, exciting than Killian's. I am simply asking for critique on the grain bill and such.

Thanks.

ILOVEBEER, my LHBS lets us weigh out our own grains, and they have pretty nice digital scales. I imagine most shops sell digital scales for pretty cheap.

BJCP recognizes an Irish Red brewed as a Lager and an Ale. I'd throw in 2-3oz of Roasted Barley. That's the flavor I associate with an Irish Red...just a hint of roastiness.

+1 on the Roasted Barley, it will also give you that roastiness and the ruby red color you need for the style. You can most likely back off or elliminate some of the other adjuncts by adding the Roasted Barley.

storunner13 said:

BJCP recognizes an Irish Red brewed as a Lager and an Ale. I'd throw in 2-3oz of Roasted Barley. That's the flavor I associate with an Irish Red...just a hint of roastiness.

Click to expand...

rayg said:

But...Killian's IS Irish Red. That's one of those imaginary beer styles based
on a brand name. If you want something that doesn't taste like Killians,
then you want a different style, like a pale ale, or a bitter.

Ray

Click to expand...

No. There are guidelines for the style. That's like saying Miller Lite IS Pilsner - if you want something that tastes different, you want a different style. I don't think Killian's is a real Irish Red. BJCP doesn't even include it in it's commercial examples.

ODaniel said:

No. There are guidelines for the style. That's like saying Miller Lite IS Pilsner - if you want something that tastes different, you want a different style. I don't think Killian's is a real Irish Red. BJCP doesn't even include it in it's commercial examples.

Click to expand...

Not really, Pilsener is Pilsener, Miller Lite is Miller Lite, but Miller Lite
is not a category.

There are guidelines for the style NOW, but there weren't any beers called
"Irish Red" in Ireland before Coors invented that brand. The classic Smithwick's
ale in Ireland has a strong diacetyl flavor and is amber colored, but the "Irish
Reds" that are there now from various companies came after the Coors beer,
afaik.

Ray

Taken from Mar/Apr 2009 BYO Magazine:

Irish Red Ale: Style Profile

(Type: Story Index | Section: Departments, Beer Styles, January/February2009)
Author: Jamil Zainasheff Issue: Mar/Apr 2009 One of the first things you learn about most styles is whether it’s an ale or a lager. This month’s featured style — Irish red ale — can be either. ...

bja said:

Taken from Mar/Apr 2009 BYO Magazine:

Irish Red Ale: Style Profile

(Type: Story Index | Section: Departments, Beer Styles, January/February2009)
Author: Jamil Zainasheff Issue: Mar/Apr 2009 One of the first things you learn about most styles is whether it’s an ale or a lager. This month’s featured style — Irish red ale — can be either. ...

Click to expand...

Doesn't change my point. ESB was a brand by Fuller's before it
became a style.

Ray

rayg said:

Doesn't change my point. ESB was a brand by Fuller's before it
became a style.

Ray

Click to expand...

Then I don't understand your point. Irish Red is a style. You admitted that.

rayg said:

There are guidelines for the style NOW,

Click to expand...

Are you saying you don't agree with the guidelines?

bja said:

Then I don't understand your point. Irish Red is a style. You admitted that.
Are you saying you don't agree with the guidelines?

Click to expand...

I'm commenting on the op's original statement that he hoped he
would end up with something "far and away better" than Killian's.
Killian's IS Irish Red, which is just Coors taking a light lager and
adding a bit of roasted barley. There isn't much to room to work
with. The op's final beer may indeed be far and away better than
Killian's red, but that's only because he's changing the recipe
considerably, even if he is still technically sticking to the
style guideline's color/ibu range.