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AndrewTodd

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Well I have my brewing supplies on the way and am about to jump into my first batch of cider. I have a couple of questions.
I feel like first day apprentice..


I have two options for my first batch of 5 gallons

Both start with fresh local sweet cider that has been ultraviolet pasteurized. My yeast will be Wyeast 4184 Sweet Mead. I can go with either Mountaintop honey or corn sugar. The first being more of a Cyser option. Or I can opt for both honey and sugar.

I have yeast nutrient coming so as I understand that the honey needs that. Any other things I might need to take into consideration?

I want to possible add some citrus to this, orange or lemon peel. I'm not set on that yet. And I'm not sure if I should add that after racking.


I have a very rudimentary knowledge of what I'm going to do so any help is going to be a plus.
 
I'm missing the question here... I will tell you that I've had experience with that yeast 4184, and it is a slow starter. My most recent yeast took 3 days before I saw any evidence of fermentation - by hydrometer tests.

If you don't have a hyrdometer, you need one.
 
I'm missing the question here... I will tell you that I've had experience with that yeast 4184, and it is a slow starter. My most recent yeast took 3 days before I saw any evidence of fermentation - by hydrometer tests.

If you don't have a hyrdometer, you need one.

My kit will have a hydrometer. http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/deluxe-beer-starter-kit.html

I guess I need a little guidance to know how much sugars to add and what temp I want to try to maintain for this particular yeast. I think I cn muddle through after I get a good start on my primary. Also any particular peculiarities I might have to deal with in the mead yeast?

I can pour concrete, weld steel, plumb and carpenter but I feel like an idiot trying to get started in this. LOL

I should have paid more attention in chemistry...
 
I'm missing the question here... I will tell you that I've had experience with that yeast 4184, and it is a slow starter. My most recent yeast took 3 days before I saw any evidence of fermentation - by hydrometer tests.

If you don't have a hyrdometer, you need one.

I will have a hydrometer with my brewing equipment coming Tuesday. What would you recommended for starting amounts of honey or sugar, nutrient and temp to start at?

I will have both a 5 gallon carbouy and an 6 gallon one.

I'm intrigued with the alcohol tolerance of this yeast.

I will add that I am shooting for a sweeter product than a dry one.
 
so....you want a sweet product.

well that can be achieved a couple basic ways

1) your yeast tolerance is 11% so add enough fermentables to the primary to get to >11%. Residual sugars will not be fermented and add to the sweetness of the final drink.

2) don't add too much sugar and backsweeten at bottling (this can be done whether you want natural carbonation or not and can be done with wine stabilizers/non-fermentable sweeteners or regular ole' sugar) or in the glass at consumption (i dislike this method personally....if i have gone through the trouble to brew, i want to crack a bottle and enjoy...not have sugar around)

by my estimation, you would have to add about 1lb of sugar per gallon to max out the yeast for option 1.

the real questions you have to ask yourself are:
1) what is your target abv?
2) how sweet do you want it...ie like Mott's Apple Juice or as sweet as your favorite beer, or do you want to become diabetic from just one glass?

When you can answer those, you can begin to calculate the sugar you will have to add...until then, its a bit unknown. Just decide and post back.

FYI...ultimately, i'm sure you realize, that just because one recipe works for one guy, doesn't mean it will taste the same for someone else...i might define "a sweeter product" differently than you or anyone else.
 
so....you want a sweet product.

well that can be achieved a couple basic ways

1) your yeast tolerance is 11% so add enough fermentables to the primary to get to >11%. Residual sugars will not be fermented and add to the sweetness of the final drink.

2) don't add too much sugar and backsweeten at bottling (this can be done whether you want natural carbonation or not and can be done with wine stabilizers/non-fermentable sweeteners or regular ole' sugar) or in the glass at consumption (i dislike this method personally....if i have gone through the trouble to brew, i want to crack a bottle and enjoy...not have sugar around)

by my estimation, you would have to add about 1lb of sugar per gallon to max out the yeast for option 1.

the real questions you have to ask yourself are:
1) what is your target abv?
2) how sweet do you want it...ie like Mott's Apple Juice or as sweet as your favorite beer, or do you want to become diabetic from just one glass?

When you can answer those, you can begin to calculate the sugar you will have to add...until then, its a bit unknown. Just decide and post back.

FYI...ultimately, i'm sure you realize, that just because one recipe works for one guy, doesn't mean it will taste the same for someone else...i might define "a sweeter product" differently than you or anyone else.

I'm looking for finshed % around its tolerance of 11% ABV (closer to a mead than a cider) with a relatively sweet finish say as sweet as a lager or even a amberbock which I consider both sweet.

I'm also would like some guidance in what temp this yeast favors, I know it advertises as 65 to 75 deg I believe but I'm sure someone here has found a sweet spot that yeast favors.
 
Activity is ramping up nicely.

I think this is going to be potent stuff. My OG on my sweet cider was 1.051 and decided to go for the tolerance of the yeast and upped my sugar to SG 1.081. I know its gonna be sweet. I'm guessing this will be a sweet Apple Wine with target of 11% potential alcohol.
 
Activity is ramping up nicely.

I think this is going to be potent stuff. My OG on my sweet cider was 1.051 and decided to go for the tolerance of the yeast and upped my sugar to SG 1.081. I know its gonna be sweet. I'm guessing this will be a sweet Apple Wine with target of 11% potential alcohol.


1. Depending on how you define sweet, 11% will leave you at a 1.000 FG, which is imho dry, (but then I think Zin is only semi sweet). Usually 1.010 as a FG is considered sweet.
2. While the yeast is rated as 11%, you might get a little higher, or a little lower.
 
1. Depending on how you define sweet, 11% will leave you at a 1.000 FG, which is imho dry, (but then I think Zin is only semi sweet). Usually 1.010 as a FG is considered sweet.
2. While the yeast is rated as 11%, you might get a little higher, or a little lower.

Being my SG was 1.081, I was just doing some number crunching and If I rack it at say 1.010 and then cold crash it I would end up at 9.31%. Am I correct?
 
I guess that sounds right. It is hard to stop yeast once thye are going, so I'd recomend pasturization after you bottle. - especially if you want to carb. There is a sticky on it in one of the forums.
 
I guess that sounds right. It is hard to stop yeast once thye are going, so I'd recomend pasturization after you bottle. - especially if you want to carb. There is a sticky on it in one of the forums.

That is my plan. :mug:


After heat pasturization, how does bottle aging affect carbonation over a long haul? Can i expect these to reamaiin carbed for year, years, or months?
 
This will require quite a bit of aging, I suspect, with such a high abv.

Instead of using the stove top pasteurizing for this, I would let it ferment out, stabilize, then backsweeten. Bottle it still (not carbonated) and let it age.
 
This will require quite a bit of aging, I suspect, with such a high abv.

Instead of using the stove top pasteurizing for this, I would let it ferment out, stabilize, then backsweeten. Bottle it still (not carbonated) and let it age.

I will likely do that. Eliminating a step and I don't have a preference for either sparkling or still. I am more interested in taste. This may sit in the basement on the shelf for a year. I'll brew me something else for a quick drink.
 
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