English Barleywine: Wy1968 or Wy1275?

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Evan!

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I've never done an English b-wine before, but that's what I'm doing for the Central Veeyay Brewdown this weekend, so I figured I'd better nail this down now so I can start my starter early and ramp it up. I was at my LHBS over the weekend and they were closing out their Wyeast paks at $4.50, so I picked up the 1968 London ESB and the 1275 Thames Valley. Now, on one hand, JZ & JP say to use a highly attenuative strain to help dry it out---of the two, the Thames is higher at 77% (vs. 67-71% for the ESB); on the other hand, when you look at the product descriptions on Wyeast's website, they list suggested styles for each one, and English B-Wine is listed for the 1968 but not for the 1275.

So what do you think? 1968? 1275? 4 packets of Notty?
 
i just did an ESB with 1968, and mis-calculated my hops (didn't account for the age, oops) but that's another story. what i ended up with is a too malty beer and that allowed the yeast character to really shine through. maybe shine is the wrong word. i didn't like it all that much. came out very nutty. and it didn't attenuate very well. i still have the yeast cake sitting in the carboy because i don't want to give up on that yeast just yet. maybe a properly hopped ESB will turn out a little better. i've also been mulling a barleywine so maybe that yeast cake is destined for that. i wouldn't recommend the 1968 based on my experience.
 
I think 1968 will leave that Barleywine like syrup. I guess it could work for a barleywine if you had a reasonable gravity and mashed really low. 1968 left my 3.4% Mild with a ton of body. I can't imagine what would happen with a 1.110 OG barley wine.

By reading the description 1275 sound like a good barleywine yeast. Sounds similar to Nottingham. I'd go with that or the Notty. 2 packets should be sufficient unless the OG is crazy.

Craig
 
I have no made this style either, but according to the BJCP description that JZ and Gordon Strong helped a revise:

Flavor: Strong, intense, complex, multi-layered malt flavors ranging from bready and biscuity through nutty, deep toast, dark caramel, toffee, and/or molasses. Moderate to high malty sweetness on the palate, although the finish may be moderately sweet to moderately dry (depending on aging). Some oxidative or vinous flavors may be present, and often complex alcohol flavors should be evident. Alcohol flavors shouldn’t be harsh, hot or solventy. Moderate to fairly high fruitiness, often with a dried-fruit character. Hop bitterness may range from just enough for balance to a firm presence; balance therefore ranges from malty to somewhat bitter. Low to moderately high hop flavor (usually UK varieties). Low to no diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Full-bodied and chewy, with a velvety, luscious texture (although the body may decline with long conditioning). A smooth warmth from aged alcohol should be present, and should not be hot or harsh. Carbonation may be low to moderate, depending on age and conditioning.

To me that means something in the 75-80% attenuation range.

I don't know what OG you're shooting for, but let's say you want to hit 1.110. It sounds like you want it to finish a bit dry so maybe you're thinking about 1.020 or so. That's an aa of about 81%, which is pretty good for any yeast, and most likely isn't going to dry this beer out very much. (I think we've both had beers that finished at 1.020 or higher and can attest to the remaining residual sweetness).

Barleywine's are supposed to be big, thick and chewy. If you want to dry it out maybe toss in some sucrose and maybe some treacle.

Of the 2 Wyeast strains you presented, I'd go with the Thames. If you really want it dry, I'm guessing that Nottingham will get the TG lower than the Thames.
 
I'm not trying to dry it out too much, just enough so that I can get to a Thomas Hardy level, which is relatively sweet but not cloying. I do want a bit more yeast character than the uber-neutral Notty has, though, which is why I'm eying the Thames.
 
Why not Wyeast 1028? It worked well for me in a English-style barleywine.

"Rich with a dry finish, minerally profile, bold and crisp, with some fruitiness. Often used for higher gravity ales and when a high level of attenuation is desired for the style.

Origin:
Flocculation: Medium-Low
Attenuation: 73-77%
Temperature Range: 60-72F, 15-22C
Alcohol Tolerance: 10%ABV".
 
Why not Wyeast 1028? It worked well for me in a English-style barleywine.

Because I have 5 british yeasts (Nottingham, 1275, 1968, WLP002 and WLP022), on hand, and my LHBS doesn't happen to have the 1028, and I'm not gonna place an order online just for that yeast when I have the Thames, which sounds pretty similar to the 1028, in my fridge---not to mention, unless I spent $25 in shipping, it wouldn't get here in time for me to make a starter for a sunday brew.
 
I see.

The 1275 does sound/read like the 1028, but it appears to be used for bitters and lower gravity ales mostly. OTOH the 1968 will work really well in a bitter/esb but would be too much in a barleywine...waaay to sweet.

I'd go for the 1275 over the 1968.
 
Barleywine's are supposed to be big, thick and chewy. If you want to dry it out maybe toss in some sucrose and maybe some treacle.

My experience with big beers is rather limited (3 so far), but every one I have done I've used ~10% sugar, and mashed at 151*F or below. My attenuation has been consistently 80-85% with strains that average 75%. Based on that if you use some sugar (maybe 5%?) and mash at 152*F, using the Thames it should come out at a reasonable ~1.020 gravity. In any case, I hate cloyingly sweet beers, so I always have erred on the side of having it come out too dry.
 
My experience with big beers is rather limited (3 so far), but every one I have done I've used ~10% sugar, and mashed at 151*F or below. My attenuation has been consistently 80-85% with strains that average 75%. Based on that if you use some sugar (maybe 5%?) and mash at 152*F, using the Thames it should come out at a reasonable ~1.020 gravity. In any case, I hate cloyingly sweet beers, so I always have erred on the side of having it come out too dry.

Yeah, that's what I have in there for simple sugar, 10%. Think I'll mash at 150-151 though.
 
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