So its not illegal?

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Ó Flannagáin

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I posted a thread a few months back about distilling and it turned into an interesting conversation, to say the least. Somewhere in there I asked about the freeze beer/cider to get a higher alcohol content drink, kinda like backwards distilling I guess. A few folks said it was illegal. But, after reading the following, I'm not sure anymore. I was reading about REALLY expensive cocktails, ranging from $30 - $1500 for 1 drink. Here is the description of one of those drinks:

Sin-sation
Below-Zero Nitro Bar
Barton G. The Restaurant, Miami
$32
Who needs diamonds and truffles when you can freeze alcohol? In a daring feat of molecular mixology, the bar staff here infuses alcohols with liquid nitrogen so that they freeze solid and become more potent as they thaw. The bar offers several variations on the Nitro-Tini but the Champagne-laced Sin-sation, with its pricey rose nectar and bud stem encased in frozen Absolute Vanilla, is the fave du jour.
 
I didn't see anything about it being dangerous... but still, the technique at that bar makes me question if there is anything illegal about it at all... brewpastor was dead set on its illegal in his post on your thread.
 
The difference and the illegal bit is the separation of the alcohol from the base drink.
If the more potent part is removed then it is illegal, if it is left with the rest of the drink it is legal.

Okay my terminology and way of putting it may not stand up in court but the basic principle is correct.
 
orfy said:
The difference and the illegal bit is the separation of the alcohol from the base drink.
If the more potent part is removed then it is illegal, if it is left with the rest of the drink it is legal.

Okay my terminology and way of putting it may not stand up in court but the basic principle is correct.

ahh, ok, that makes sense... I guess. Seems like a way of working-around the law then.
 
It sounds to me that at the bar, they are freezing the alcohol, then mixing it. As the person drinks the alcohol thaws and the drink gets more potent. With freeze distilling, you are freezing water, but leaving the alcohol unaffected, the nremoving the alcohol.

At the bar, they are not distilling the alcohol in any way, they are just freezing it, and letting it thaw out. Freeze distilling is definitely illegal in the US. I havent heard, and I cant really imagine that its very dangerous though.

- magno
 
The reason freeze distilling is dangerous is because you dont get rid of the methyl alcohol (the one that makes you go blind). When you distill with heat you toss out the heads and tails which both contain the dangerous alcohols (methyl and fussils) and end up with just ethyl alcohol
 
Sounds kind of crazy that you could be breaking the law for something that could happen by accident. Like 'accidentally' leaving some 'mixture' out on the deck overnight and it freezes up. You can't heat distill by mistake.
 
With freeze distilling, the methyl is mixed with the rest. The danger of people dying and going blind is when they did drink the heads and tails from the still. However, I have tasted hard cider in Britain that was freeze distilled to about 20%. You won't die from the methyl, but it will give you a nasty headache if you drink to much. For me it was one glass.
 
Pumbaa said:
The reason freeze distilling is dangerous is because you dont get rid of the methyl alcohol (the one that makes you go blind). When you distill with heat you toss out the heads and tails which both contain the dangerous alcohols (methyl and fussils) and end up with just ethyl alcohol

However...any commercially sold hard likker (whiskey, rum, vodka, etc.) will all ready have the 99.9% of the heads and tails removed prior to bottleing. Freezing the likker is nothing but a gimmick to part idiots with more money than common sense from their pocket change

Go to
http://homedistiller.org/

How dangerous are the various fusel oils ? I've got some of them listed below.
The ones with toxicity data listed are ...

* Methanol : usual fatal dose 100-250 mL
* 1-Pentanol : LD50 (rat) 3030 mg/kg
* 3-Pentanol : LD50 (rat) 1870 mg/kg

Compare this to the amounts present in distilled spirits. The data in Wheeler & Willmotts "Spirits unlimited - a complete guide to home distilling" gives :

* Home distilled spirit (untreated): methanol 0.0067%, ethanol 99.632%, fusils 0.361%
* Commercial vodka: methanol 0.013%, ethanol 99.507%, fusils 0.48%
* Poor quality home distilled spirit : methanol 0.0186%, ethanol 98.453%, and fusils 1.528%

If you're talking about untreated spirits as being dangerous, then to reach the LD50's that are published, you'd need to consume 149 L to be affected by the methanol, or for a 90kg bloke, about 58 L for the pentanol, from the "good" homemade stuff. That would be one hell of a session ! Even on their "poor quality" brew you'd need 11 L for the fusels. Stock standard pissed-as-a-newt high-school-student alcohol poisoning is the greater problem.

Home distillation is fairly simple, and once you understand the process, its very safe. So I'm told......

And yes....distilling alcohol for human consumption without the appropriate permits and licenses is illegal in all 50 states.
 
fretman124 said:
However...any commercially sold hard likker (whiskey, rum, vodka, etc.) will all ready have the 99.9% of the heads and tails removed prior to bottleing. Freezing the likker is nothing but a gimmick to part idiots with more money than common sense from their pocket change

Go to
http://homedistiller.org/



Home distillation is fairly simple, and once you understand the process, its very safe. So I'm told......

And yes....distilling alcohol for human consumption without the appropriate permits and licenses is illegal in all 50 states.

Good stuff...

PM sent. Curious.... ;)
 
Have you guys ever heard of Apple-Jack? One of my friends used to do this in Maine because it would get so cold in the winter. What they would do is get gallons of apple juice, shake some sugar into it and yeast and let it ferment in the house for a couple of weeks, then they'd throw it outside, let it freeze, and pour out the alcohol.

Tasted pretty good and was potent as hell. Why am I revealing all this stuff? From Marijuana beer to this, crap, the feds would love to come check my closet out wouldn't they.
 
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