Chocolate Stout review from Stout experts please

I have been drueling to do a Chocolate Stout. I saw ChsCat's Double Chocolate Oatmeal Stout that sounds awesome and has recieved plenty of good reviews. I don't want to buy more equipment right now to start partial mashing so I need to stick with extract and grains for now.

I reviewed about 10 recipes last night, and came up with this. I ran this through the beer recipator spreadsheet for the numbers. but what I need is for you guys the experts to tell me if I should make adjustments or change anything.

MY GOAL is to make a Sweet Chocolate Stout.

Sweet Stout
5 gallon batch
SRM 44
IBU 20
OG 1.062
FG 1.010
ABV 6.8

7 lbs Amber LME
1 lbs American chocolate
4 oz American black patent
4 oz roasted barley
1 lbs flaked oats (10 minutes)

2 oz fuggles (60 minutes)
1 oz kent goldings (45 minutes)
.5 oz kent goldings (30 or 15)

10 minutes left to boil add:
4 oz brown sugar
4 oz belgain candi sugar
8 oz coco powder

Irish Ale yeast

1 vanilla bean in secondary

Steep all grains at 155 for 45 minutes, add hops and LME. Follow hops additions, with 10 minutes to go add brown sugar, candi sugar, coco powder and oats. Sparge and cool as usual, pitch yeast, 21 days in primary, soak bean in volka and add vanilla bean into secondary with wort for 1 week then bottle.


PLease review and give me some thoughts.

Looks pretty good but it isn't technically a Sweet Stout if it doesn't have lactose in it. All of those sugar additions are fermentable and lactose isn't and that's what makes it a Sweet Stout.

Looks tasty though.

In my admittedly limited experience you won't get a ton of chocolate flavor from 8 ounces in the boil. I've heard better results from using it in the secondary. And watch out for the coffee flavor from the roasted grains (although I see you are using mostly chocolate malt) to potentially overpower that chocolate flavor.

Go Sabres! (from a displaced Buffalonian)

HelperMunkee said:

In my admittedly limited experience you won't get a ton of chocolate flavor from 8 ounces in the boil. I've heard better results from using it in the secondary. And watch out for the coffee flavor from the roasted grains (although I see you are using mostly chocolate malt) to potentially overpower that chocolate flavor.

Go Sabres! (from a displaced Buffalonian)

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I agree with this as well. I would say that there will almost be zero chocolate hint to this beer if you use just 8 ounces during the boil. If you want definite chocolate notes, I would secondary with some chocolate or some have used a little chocolate extract at bottling, but a little of that goes a long way.

Let us know how it turns out!!

Lodovico said:

Looks pretty good but it isn't technically a Sweet Stout if it doesn't have lactose in it. All of those sugar additions are fermentable and lactose isn't and that's what makes it a Sweet Stout.

Looks tasty though.

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Actually, this isn't quite true. Lots of Sweet Stouts don't have lactose. Lactose is crucial for a sub-group of Sweet Stouts which are called either Milk Stouts or Cream Stouts. Sweet stout is the label for a traditional British (not Irish) stout and there are plenty of sweet stouts out there that aren't milk stouts or cream stouts.

if I were to add Lactose to it how much should I add? As well as the chocolate to the secondary. What form of chocolate and how much?

What is I reduced the 1 lb of chocolate to 1/2 pound and up the barley to .5 lb.? Would this help with a more chocolate flavor?

I recently made the recipe below and found that half a pound of roasted barley is way too coffee-y for me (even before adding the coffee, but I followed the recipe). If you want to stay away from coffee flavors I would try reducing the barley and increasing the chocolate malt (if you need the color).

Buzz’ard Double Chocolate Espresso Stout (from BYO)

8 lbs. (3.6 kg) Alexander’s dark malt extract syrup
0.5 lb. (0.2 kg) crystal malt (120 °L)
0.5 lb. (0.2 kg) chocolate malt
0.5 lb. (0.2 kg) roasted barley
1 lb. (0.45 kg) Ghirardelli Select Brown choco powder (added at 60 min)
2 oz. Northern Brewer hops
0.5 lb. (0.2 kg) espresso beans, fine ground, brewed to 1 gallon (3.8 L) of coffee added at bottling

Also note that this beer didn't have any chocolate flavor. I'm not sure what the most efficient way to make that happen is, but I'd be interested to find out.

mkling said:

Actually, this isn't quite true. Lots of Sweet Stouts don't have lactose. Lactose is crucial for a sub-group of Sweet Stouts which are called either Milk Stouts or Cream Stouts. Sweet stout is the label for a traditional British (not Irish) stout and there are plenty of sweet stouts out there that aren't milk stouts or cream stouts.

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No, I understand that my comment read that it has to be lactose but you are right. I meant that in order to technically be a Sweet Stout there should be some unfermentables in the recipe somewhere.

From BJCP style guidelines:

The sweetness in most Sweet Stouts comes from a lower bitterness level than dry stouts and a high percentage of unfermentable dextrins.

So no, you don't have to add lactose but this recipe as is won't really have the mouthfeel of a Sweet Stout.

Lodovico said:

I agree with this as well. I would say that there will almost be zero chocolate hint to this beer if you use just 8 ounces during the boil. If you want definite chocolate notes, I would secondary with some chocolate or some have used a little chocolate extract at bottling, but a little of that goes a long way.

Let us know how it turns out!!

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I disagree completely. I use 6-9oz of cocoa powder (usually 9) in mine and it's very, VERY chocolatey.

ChshreCat said:

I disagree completely. I use 6-9oz of cocoa powder (usually 9) in mine and it's very, VERY chocolatey.

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You're the boss.

ChshreCat,

I'm very interested in making something like Young's Double Chocolate, or Founders' Breakfast stout. So I'd be very interested in knowing how you got "very, VERY chocolatey" flavor (ie. when did you add it, technique, etc).

HelperMunkee said:

ChshreCat,

I'm very interested in making something like Young's Double Chocolate, or Founders' Breakfast stout. So I'd be very interested in knowing how you got "very, VERY chocolatey" flavor (ie. when did you add it, technique, etc).

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Dumped it right in for the last 15 minutes of the boil. Poured the cooled wort through a kitchen strainer into the fermenter so most of the cocoa went along for the ride and settled out in primary.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/double-chocolate-oatmeal-snout-126638/

ChshreCat said:

I disagree completely. I use 6-9oz of cocoa powder (usually 9) in mine and it's very, VERY chocolatey.

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yeah, i used 5 oz of choc powder in my chocolate porter and it has a DEFINITE dark chocolate flavor

ChshreCat said:

I disagree completely. I use 6-9oz of cocoa powder (usually 9) in mine and it's very, VERY chocolatey.

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yeah, i used 5 oz of choc powder in my chocolate porter and it has a DEFINITE dark chocolate flavor

Not that I'm saying you are wrong, or that you don't make a wonderful beer that tastes like the chocolate heavens above but....

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

Please give specific examples and techniques for adding chocolate flavor, rather than shaggy dog stories about your chocolate-y beer.

HelperMunkee said:

Not that I'm saying you are wrong, or that you don't make a wonderful beer that tastes like the chocolate heavens above but....

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

Please give specific examples and techniques for adding chocolate flavor, rather than shaggy dog stories about your chocolate-y beer.

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Scroll back. Beyond delivering a bottle of my beer to you to try yourself, I'm not sure what more you want. I gave my amount of cocoa used, how I used it and a link to the entire recipe and thread with posts from many other folks that used it.

*shrug* make your beer the way you want. That's what the hobby's all about. We don't have to agree how much cocoa gives how much flavor and there's a million ways to make beer. Do what you like, drink it, change your process how you see fit. The only one you have to satisfy is yourself.

I think the truth of it is, the burnt flavors of roasted barley can over power any chocolate flavor from the baking cocoa (or at least mask it, so they compliment but the chocolate is not pronounced), and at the same time certain crystals, probably 20 - 60, will probably accentuate the chocolate flavor because of the caramel-like quality of sweetness they add. For this reason, the amount of cocoa used and when it is used is only part of the equation, because if it is getting drowned out by burnt flavors it doesnt matter when it goes in.

Something I would add to this recipe, and Chshre Cat has in his, is some C60. Note that he has more C60 than either chocolate malt or roasted barley. I know you're using an Amber LME instead of a Pale LME... but I would actually switch to the Pale LME, and then add the crystals yourself as a steeping grain. You never know what exactly you're getting for unfermentable in that Amber LME.

The Crystal malts will also add the unfermentable sugars you want to make it sweeter, and avoid you needing to put in lactose.


So my vote is:

*Switch to Pale LME, and add C60, maybe 1lb. Maybe add a touch of C20 too, maybe 0.25lb, just to give it a few more nuances of sweetness.
*After it has fermented, smell it and taste it. If you think it could stand to be more chocolate-y, boil a few ounces of water and dissolve some baking cocoa in it, and dump it in. Similarly, if at any time you think it is TOO chocolatey, you could put in some (preferably cold-steeped, though it doesn't matter that much) espresso.

That's a good point. If you're not getting any flavor from the cocoa it might not be that it's not there but more that it's getting buried. It my recipe, it's quite pronounced. I intentionally didn't do a whole lot with the hops because I didn't want the chocolate being overshadowed.

I made Jamil's chocholate porter in which I added 8 oz of the Hershey's chocholate poweder 2 min left in the boil. I was pleased with the results. I for your grain bill, I would def add some sort of crystal, and if you want to be sweet add lactose. Adding a pound or two of crystal is no sub for lactose in a sweet stout.

Good luck with the beer!

thanks guys. i'll add the crystal 60 at one pound and switch to pale LME