Framboise Lambic

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Man...You're asking a lot here.
No kits that I'm aware of.
You can search...some guys are doing some sour stuff here, and tehir lambics are set on a LOT of fruit...for about a year, along with the Bret. Make yourself an expert on Both Fruit beer, and Sour...Bret style beer, and you'll come close...Hope you have LOTS of patience
 
I have absolutely no experience so take this with a grain of salt. Recently, I've been obsessed with researching spontaneously fermented beer. While I may not try true spontaneous fermentation for a while, the Wyeast blends will give you the correct "bugs".

From my readings, I've concluded it may be somewhat hard to produce a good lambic with extract. Brett and other bugs like to eat on the leftover starches that result from using high amounts of unmalted wheat, corn, and a turbid mash.

It might be a good idea to look into doing a separate cereal mash of corn grits or a partila mash with some unmalted wheat, flaked maize and some 2 row or pilsner for conversion.

As per Jamil, it is probably a good idea to ferment your beer with regular brewers yeast, then add the bugs. This will help control sour levels.

If you are working with raspberries, get ready for a huge mess. The Brett and other bugs will turn raspberries into a messy sludge. This is why cherries are (and were) the most popular fruit for lambic. You would probably have more consistent and reliable results with raspberry puree or extract.

Hope this helps!
 
x2 on doing at least a partial mash

The oud bruin I'm making, I pitched lacto cultures, let it go for three days, and then pitched normal yeast. It's sour, but not nearly as sour as I would like it (not yet anyway after 2 weeks). It will probably get more sour but not very much. The yeast and species of lacto I pitched (except one that metabolized only lactose) all metabolize the same stuff, and fermentation is over. Also I'd bet most of the lacto spp I used are dead except maybe L. acidophilus. If you pitch normal yeast, then pitch lacto, you probably won't get very good returns in terms of sourness. A lot of the lacto species have pH requirements, and don't survive at 4%+ EtOH. I'd do either what I did, or do what BK did with his sour peach - pitch lacto, wait until it gets as sour as you want, then boil it to lock in the sourness and kill off the lacto, then proceed as normal.
 
do some searching around here - I think landhoney posted it, but there was a thread on another board for some sort of 'lazy mans lambic' which looked VERY promising.
 
If you do a sour mash or use yogurt culture, then use normal yeast, I'd say from brew day to being ready to drink, probably 2.5-4 months depending on how long you wanna keep it in secondary (1 month primary, 1-3 months secondary, +/- 2 weeks if you're bottling or kegging). From what I understand lacto + sacch beers don't really need to age very long.

If you use the yeast blend I linked to, it has Brettanomyoces in it as well, which will add 6 months to the 2.5-4 months. Brett fermentations take time. I think someone mentioned it earlier in this thread, but lambics are usually aged about a year or two. Some will go a year just on the fruit, etc, etc.
 
Red October, are you trying to do a clone of the Lindemans Framboise pictured in the link you posted? If so, disregard any post regarding bugs/brett/sourness. I don't know what lindemans uses but their beer is definitely NOT sour, bretty, lactic, or dry. If you gave it to me blind I definitely wouldn't call it a lambic..probably wouldn't even say it was beer.
 
If you are talking about Lindeman's Framboise, then you don't really need to use a Lambic culture. Their beers are extensively backsweetened. If you are just after the raspberry taste, do an American Wheat or Blonde with a clean yeast and then secondary on ridonkulous amounts of fruit (either fresh or Oregon purees). I wouldn't use the extracts because they taste pretty artificial.

Rack after the taste is right (up to you), and let clear. Then bottle/keg. You can also backsweeten with lactose or Splenda if you feel the need to have it sweeter to cut the tartness of the raspberries.

If you are looking for a true lambic-Framboise, then I suggest Drie Fonteinen or Cantillon.
 
I have a lambic going right now.

I made a medium gravity wheat beer and pitched 1056 on it. I let it ferment for about 7 days and then transfered it to a secondary. The secondary contained about 6 lbs of Oregon raspberry puree. In the secondary I pitched wyeast Lambic blend.

It's been about 6 months since I pitched the lambic blend yeast. All the fruit fell to the bottom and it's developing a white crust on the top (pellicle I hope).

Can't tell you how it tastes or anything but if you want the recipe pm me.
 
uglygoat said:
Amazon.com: Wild Brews: Culture and Craftsmanship in the Belgian Tradition: Jeff Sparrow: Books

read that book... :)

lambics take two years to make, and they throw just about every brewing convention on its head....
Click to expand...

+1 Its a great book.

JoMarky said:
Red October, are you trying to do a clone of the Lindemans Framboise pictured in the link you posted? If so, disregard any post regarding bugs/brett/sourness. I don't know what lindemans uses but their beer is definitely NOT sour, bretty, lactic, or dry. If you gave it to me blind I definitely wouldn't call it a lambic..probably wouldn't even say it was beer.
Click to expand...

apparently Lindeman's does make real lambic. I was fully convinced it was not. Unfortunately, the only product of theirs we get in the US are pasteurized and back sweetened. Terrible stuff.
 
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I hope you guys dont blow a gasket when I tell you that I am a newcomer to brewing. My friend asked if there was a kit for the lambec, and I told hit I'd find out (knowing you guys are always on point!) Well, when Phission linked the kit from Austin, I thought maybe I could pull it off (I'm good at following directions, usually).

Then, and this is whats so cool about this group, we enter into sour beer, yogurt cultures etc and I quickly begin to shrink into uncertainty.

You guys rock, and I appreciate your effort and love the direction the thread has taken. I just have another question or two:

Can I use the kit Phission pointed out earlier in the thread and somehow incorporate a Oregon raspberry puree or,

Can I just make the kit with the yeast?

My friend mentioned that the Lambec had a taste of rasberries, and I do plan to make a blonde with a puree in the future as well (as a previous poster recommended), however creating "the" specific taste is secondary to me (I dont believe I can reproduce what he drank in Belgium)

I just want to make something that is difficult to find here in the USA.

OH, and BTW if you do have a lambec recipe (that uses an extract) please feel free to send me a message. :ban:
 
Like I said before, the kit I linked to isn't a lambic kit, it is just a raspberry brown ale. It won't be anything near a lambic unless you use the lambic blend yeast.
You can rack the beer onto puree in secondary.
Yeah you can just make that kit with normal yeast, but it won't be a lambic, it would just be a raspberrry brown ale. Still good, but not a lambic by any means.
 
Phission, Im sorry I didnt make it clear, so here goes:

I want to do the kit you linked (w/o yeast option) using the yeast you linked.

Now that being said, and with only 2 brews under my belt, do you think its possible or possible but impractical?
 
If it helps, I'm brewing my first Fruit Lambic this weekend...

I made a yeast/bacteria starter from Lindeman's Gueuze Cuvée René which, despite what people in this thread are saying, IS a true lambic. You will develop quite a "pucker face" drinking this dry, sour gueuze. :p :)

I made the starter with DME, sugar, and maltodextrin (something for the bacteria to consume) and let it go for 4 weeks. I've been tasting it weekly and it's becoming quite sour now. It already has the horsey, tart characteristics of a true lambic in less than 4 weeks. So, the original yeast and bacteria are very much alive and ready to due their worst.

The recipe I'm using is all grain - 70% 2 row, 20% wheat, 10% honey malt. The honey malt will provide for some unfermentable, complex-chain sugars for the bacteria to consume after the yeast have done their job.

I plan to pitch the bacteria starter when I pitch the yeast (US-05). The yeast will produce alcohol very quickly, so I have no fear of uncontrolled bacteria growth. After primary fermentation is complete, I plan to rack to secondary on ~3lbs of raspberries and a few ounces of oak chips (provides a lattice for bacterial growth).

I plan to sample it bi-weekly and rack when I'm satisfied with the overall flavor. This may take 4 - 12 months but, based on the speed of the starter, I suspect I can accomplish a good, true lambic flavor in less than 6 months.
 
Its possible. You will just need to be patient.

First brew and ferment the kit with a normal yeast (nottingham dry yeast, Wyeast 1056). Something neutral. You will then pitch the "bugs". This allows for a more controlled way to sour your beer. Unfortunately, the organisms responsible for beer souring take a long time to work. Brett, a superattenuating yeast will break down all of the complex sugars your brewers yeast coultn't get. This can take up to a year. The lactic acid bacteria can also take a while to do their work.

Also, you will need to know that brett is an oxidative yeast. To get oxygen, it creates a white cap on your beer that looks really nasty. This layer allows it to get ambient oxygen and protect the beer (its food) from absorbing excess oxygen. Essentially, its creating its own micro-environment where it likes to grow, and nothing else can compete.


sorry for going on that rant...

If you are willing to wait and do a little more research, its both possible and practical. People have been brewing this way for a long time.
 
x2 on everything Edcculus said. Personally I'd just pitch the lambic blend though right off the bat. In the open air of Belgium, everything lands in the beer at once, they don't take turns.
 
lamarguy said:
I made a yeast/bacteria starter from Lindeman's Gueuze Cuvée René which, despite what people in this thread are saying, IS a true lambic. You will develop quite a "pucker face" drinking this dry, sour gueuze. :p :)
Click to expand...

I haven't tried it yet, but I did pick up a bottle of the Cuvée René in St. Louis recently. It's definitely harder to find than the fruit lambics they do, but it's out there.

If you wouldn't mind (and perhaps in a new thread), could you go over how you prepared the starter from the Cuvée?
 
I personally wouldn't prepare a starter from a commerical bottle or the Wyeast/White Labs packages. Remember that the Sacch grows differently than Brett which grows differently than Lactobacillus which grows differently than Pedio.

Making a starter from these cultures throws off the ratios, which have already been optimized by the yeast company or brewer.

That said, I'd like to know how your experiment turns out.
 
yermej said:
If you wouldn't mind (and perhaps in a new thread), could you go over how you prepared the starter from the Cuvée?
Click to expand...

Ya, no problem.

I made a standard yeast starter and pitched the dregs of the Cuvee bottle. The basic steps I followed are:

  1. Refrigerate the Cuvee bottle a couple of days in advance to encourage the yeast/bacteria to settle on the bottom.
  2. Sanitize everything used to make the starter in an iodine solution, including the upper inner/outer rim of the Cuvee bottle (wipe with a cloth soaked in iodine solution).
  3. Make a standard yeast starter, including a tablespoon of maltodextrin.
  4. Pour the cool solution into the bottle using a sanitized funnel and swirl.
  5. Pour the solution from the bottle into the sanitized flask.
  6. Boil a handful of oak chips for 5 minutes (to sanitize), strain, and add to the sanitized flask.
  7. Afix a bung/airlock and store in a cool (70 - 75F) location for 3 - 4 weeks (to allow sufficient time for the bacteria to multiply).
  8. Swirl the flask daily (if you don't have a stir plate).

If all goes well, it will taste and smell ("barnyard", "horsey" :cool:) very similar to the gueuze you drank a month earlier. There is live yeast in the bottle, so the starter will develop a slight carbonation.

I used a sanitized wine thief to sample from the starter until I was satisfied the bacteria were doing their job (right at 3 weeks for me).

Good luck!
 
PseudoChef said:
Remember that the Sacch grows differently than Brett which grows differently than Lactobacillus which grows differently than Pedio.
Click to expand...

True. That why I went the "safer" route and prepared a starter to (1) check yeast/bacteria viability and (2) evaluate the flavor profile. The starter tastes very similar to the original, so I'm feeling pretty confident this will work now.

Either way, it's an experiment. If it works, I'll impress the hell out of my lady and her friends...And, maybe build a bridge between a true lambic and Lindeman's Framboise for them. If not, and it turns out too bitter or sour, I'll still enjoy it and bring some to the next homebrew meeting just for the "you made what???" comments. :cross:
 
Holy Zombie thread revival - I know......


Anyway - gonna brew up a Hefe AG kit from the LHBS, and pitch with lambic blend.

I'm thinking let it set in primary for 10 -14 days, then pitch on 192 oz of Rasperry puree, put in the closet and forget about it until around thanksgiving.

Anyone think this will make an OK "Frambois"ish beer?
 

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