SS autosiphon... any interest??

You could possibly even siphon to some CFCs and plate chillers, if you wanted.

Sounds interesting as long as the price isn't cost-prohibitive. I haven't used my auto-siphon as much since I got a conical but I do use it occasionally. If it was more than three times the cost of the acrylic ones (so basically $40 or less), I'd probably pass. It ight be hard to keep costs that low especially with small production runs. The check valve really is the only difficult piece so I think that's key to keeping it affordable.

nutty_gnome said:

You could avoide the valve issue by using the same method used by the Simple Siphon products
http://www.simplesiphon.com/products/
I see a simple siphon attached to a ss racking cane. Slide that into a ss tube and pump up and down in the tube. No need for a super tight interference fit, just use the larger ss tube as a guide to reduce splashing. Just a thought.

Oh yeah, and like Revvy I like the idea of moving boiling wort to an HDPE bucket under a no-chill process. That would be awesome.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately this wont work, according to there Facebook page:
- Check Valve made of glass ball

Im sure this would crack or break with heat and repeated use.

Not sure why you couldn't use a SS ball, or borosilicate or maybe even polycarbonate.

Mistake.

Yea, bent and broke my autosiphon siphoning hot wort (no/low chill).

Been looking for something else. I'll probably end up going with a brew kettle with a spigot on it. My cheap aluminum pot can't handle one, so all new for me......I'd be down with this, but it's probably half or more the cost of a new brew kettle.

Why can't your aluminum pot handle a spigot?

The bottom of the outer tube just needs to be a cone-shaped piece with a stainless ball bearing. Now that you have MY wheels turning I may have to build me one of these fancy auto thingys at work tomorrow.

Maybe have the outer tube threaded on the outside and have a couple of tabs or pieces of wire welded across the opening to retain the ball bearing, then the cone would screw onto that with the ball bearing trapped in between the two pieces. The valve wouldn't have to be a totally watertight seal - just good enough to block most of the liquid when the autosiphon is pumped.

Anyone have a close up picture of the check valve?

Re: The glass marble: I concede that the glass marble is just a dime-store kids marble complete with decorative swirls. But I don't know that it wouldn't be suitable for boiling wort transfers.

The simple siphon also has a light spring behind the marble to keep the marble in place just above the inlet. It really is a marvelous thing. I used it yesterday to drain my kids pool.

nutty_gnome said:

Re: The glass marble: I concede that the glass marble is just a dime-store kids marble complete with decorative swirls. But I don't know that it wouldn't be suitable for boiling wort transfers.

The simple siphon also has a light spring behind the marble to keep the marble in place just above the inlet. It really is a marvelous thing. I used it yesterday to drain my kids pool.

Click to expand...

I think it may work but I'm just skeptical about the glass. I have called the makers of the "simple siphon" to see if they have other options available like a stainless version for us! If not I am going to make my own version of this and see where I get!

I think with all the HBT'ers on this we should be able to get one made.

What do you guys think about copper pipe? Any reason why not?

Subscribed

DakotaRules said:

What do you guys think about copper pipe? Any reason why not?

Click to expand...

The body of the simple siphon is already made out of copper (or a copper alloy that won't spark). I'm sure copper will discolor with use, but that ought not to impede the development of a working prototype.

What about a stainless slug (washer with no hole) instead of a marble? Lays flat to seal and tilts up to allow flow.

I'm meeting with a buddy that has access to a 3D printer tomorrow after work. I hope to get him to design up end of the exterior tube as well as the bottom of the racking cane part. Once that's been designed, and works, I'll be able to take those plans, and items, to machine shops to see who can make it at a decent rate (per item)... Either way, I expect to get a couple/few working prototypes manufactured from stainless initially, then find out what it would cost to make on a larger scale. Even if it means getting the parts made, and I/we put them together on our own time.

I do have a design in mind that's one moving item, that won't have weight issues like the mentioned slug would/could. I also have a design in mind for the end, to stop hop particles from entering, as well as large trub pieces. You'll still need to watch what's coming out the tube to make sure you don't dip too deep.

Golddiggie said:

I do have a design in mind that's one moving item, that won't have weight issues like the mentioned slug would/could.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't think a thin slug would cause any issues. The flow up should be able to move it enough to overcome the weight. This is the same design that the plastic ones have.

I'm interested in seeing the design because now you've got me thinking about it.

Also, my neighbor has a plasma table if you find you need parts cut.

nutty_gnome said:

Re: The glass marble: I concede that the glass marble is just a dime-store kids marble complete with decorative swirls. But I don't know that it wouldn't be suitable for boiling wort transfers.

Click to expand...

If this is indeed the case, I would certainly feel comfortable using it for hot wort transfer. I've used marbles at the bottom of my boil kettle when using my propane burner. It helps prevent boil overs. They are certainly heat resistant and difficult to break. I can't imagine anyone ever breaking one by using them in this application. I'll be picking up a few of these Simple Siphons. A quick attachment to my SS racking cane, and I've got a simple and cheap SS auto-siphon!

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/tip-help-prevent-boilovers

Here is the article that cottoned me on to using marbles in the boil kettle. The particularly relevant portion is here:

"That's right, glass marbles, the kind kids play with. Just put about 20 of them in the brew pot. Don't worry about the marbles breaking. There're made of tempered glass and their spherical shape gives them great strength. That's why kids can bang them together day after day and they don't break. Don't worry about the heat, either. A few hundred degrees Fahrenheit is nothing to a tempered glass marble."

Of course, feel free to research these claims yourself. As for me, I've used them in this application and I am perfectly comfortable with their use.

How about a silicone insert in the shape of a 3D "V" or wedge. The larger end of this would just be a circular shape like a washer that would prevent the wedge from being sucked into the tube on the upstroke. The vertex of the wedge would have a slit that will allow the liquid to pass on the upstroke but would seal off on the down stroke. This way no complicated design or machining would be needed on the tube however the silicone valve would need to be custom made. I am sure I have seen valves like this. i will try to find and post pics or links.

EDIT - Search for duck bill valve. Here is a link that shows what I was trying to describe. http://www.daprorubber.com/duckbill-flapper-umbrella-valves.aspx

I'd be interested.

Depending on the cost I could be interested in one of these also.

Count me in, too. I've always wondered why a SS autosiphon wasn't yet available.

Great idea. I've been thinking about doing this with copper, but haven't gotten past the thought process. One question. What kind of tubing will you use to transfer hot wort? Can food grade tubing take those temps?

I'd be interested too - was looking around for one recently to dodge a ball valve purchase. Got the ball valve, but still would be interested.

I'd be in. I'm tired of buying new plastic ones. I've given those frogs who make them now a LOT of my money.

dslater said:

Great idea. I've been thinking about doing this with copper, but haven't gotten past the thought process. One question. What kind of tubing will you use to transfer hot wort? Can food grade tubing take those temps?

Click to expand...

Yes, silicone tubing is fine. Do not use vinyl tubing with hot wort though.

I love having ball valves in all my kettles. It makes things so much easier. Plus it means you can use either a CFC or plate chiller for your wort.

I'll be using as many 'off the shelf' parts as possible on the SS autosiphon assembly. So that rules out any specially formed silicon parts. I'm looking to have the machine shop do as little as possible to each assembly, to keep costs down. All the metal forming, milling, and lathe work will be done by them. I'll probably (at least initially) do the assembly and testing to ensure the item works.

I hope to have files/first round prototypes very soon (need to get on my buddy, but not too hard since he IS doing this for free/homebrew :rockin... Once I have something that works, I'll be able to go to machine shops to see who can manufacture it as a good rate, and do it up right. I might get a few shops to make one, to show me what they can do before I decide upon a single shop.

Of course, this could be an item that costs more than is viable for most people to get. Or it might take a large order to get the price per assembly to a reasonable level. I won't know until I get to that point.

One item that might appeal to people... This will be 100% machined/assembled within the US. I can't say where the raw materials/items will come from (I don't have control over that) but it will be made (at least initially) within machine shops within the New England area. I could see it maybe shifting to another manufacturing location within the US, but (while I have any say in the matter) it will remain within the US. Knowing that I'm helping the local/country economy is of high value to me.

Subscribed and interested.

Not sure if you saw my edit and link. It looks like you would not need the silicone valve custom made. If you search for duck bill one way valve, I'm sure you could find a supplier that would have one that would work for your intended purpose. Then no machining would be needed for the stainless tube.

If you did see the link and it looks like it would not work, please disregard this post.

subscribed. I'd pay good money to never have to worry about breaking another plastic one. I've been through too many to count...

msexton, saw that, but I've also found 5/8" OD silicone rubber balls that could do the trick for a very low price. I would just need to order a pack to test with.

I'm not really sure what the final valve design will be, but I do know it needs to maintain a low cost, easy to get in the future, and such. So something that's made by one company is kind of out.

I might reach out to the place you provided the link to, to see what they can offer. Just not very hopeful that they can offer something that will do the job, without costing more than is reasonable. Plus, with my idea, I could include a couple of spare parts with the item so that the buyer won't need to worry about sourcing them later. IMO, not enough companies do that, for the cheap (and easily restocked) items.

Golddiggie said:

msexton, saw that, but I've also found 5/8" OD silicone rubber balls that could do the trick for a very low price. I would just need to order a pack to test with.

I'm not really sure what the final valve design will be, but I do know it needs to maintain a low cost, easy to get in the future, and such. So something that's made by one company is kind of out.

I might reach out to the place you provided the link to, to see what they can offer. Just not very hopeful that they can offer something that will do the job, without costing more than is reasonable. Plus, with my idea, I could include a couple of spare parts with the item so that the buyer won't need to worry about sourcing them later. IMO, not enough companies do that, for the cheap (and easily restocked) items.

Click to expand...

If you're going to be paying for the stainless steel, I don't think it makes a ton of sense to try and save a few bucks on a silicone part if it really is better. I mean, the price needs to be reasonable, but anybody expecting not to pay significantly more than what it costs for a plastic autosiphon is simply being delusional and/or totally unreasonable.

Wet blanket time, this will never happen.

just sayin'


_

wildwest450 said:

Wet blanket time, this will never happen.

just sayin'

_

Click to expand...

Just based on history, or do you have an actual reason *why*?

Golddiggie said:

Plus, with my idea, I could include a couple of spare parts with the item so that the buyer won't need to worry about sourcing them later. IMO, not enough companies do that, for the cheap (and easily restocked) items.

Click to expand...

+1 to that. I'd pay for an add on of spare parts. No matter how cool a design you come up with, it's useless when I lose that critical part, which I will.

I was restringing my weed-eater this weekend and lost the little spring in the yard. Had to buy a whole new head.

emjay said:

Just based on history, or do you have an actual reason *why*?

Click to expand...

Simply based on many other threads promise of mass producing a "neat" brewing tool.

I hope he proves me wrong.


_

wildwest450 said:

I hope he proves me wrong.


_

Click to expand...

Me too........

Here's another thought, If the cost of making a "typical" total SS auto-siphon would be too high but people are interested in a 1/2" model for use with silicon tubing, why not make a hand operated peristaltic starter? It could just be a few wheels that are in a device you just grip and slide down the tube to start the siphon, spring loaded to disengage. Then all you'd need to provide would be a 1/2" cane with a tip. Easier to clean with fewer product contact parts. Might not work but just a thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peristaltic_pump


Dibs on beta tester.

Click to expand...

Bigscience, I really like this idea. I have been tossing a design for this very thing around in my head for a year or so. I was thinking more along the lines of something you squeeze with one hand repeatedly to actuate--like a stapler. There are a few significant problems to overcome, but it frees you from all product-contact issues, which is neat.

I like siphoning to move wort/beer around. I just hate getting started. I had an autosiphon once, but tossed it after two infections in a row. I bet it works great for siphoning diesel fuel, though.

I bet the SS version ends up retailing for $120. May still be worth it to some, but ultimately a small market. If you can invest enough up front to:
1.have your tubing drawn for you (very, very thin--stainless sells by the pound) and
2. roll form the o-ring grooves right in the tubing and keep the valve parts count to 2 (ball and seat) or similar--remember that you can tolerate a fair amount of leakage as the valves only have to seal while pumping and you do that fast anyway

I believe this could be commercially viable, neglecting the patent issues, of course.

Did this idea die?