Discouragement, disappointment, and dealing with less-than-stellar brews

I just posted this in Ed Wort's Oktoberfest recipe thread:

slothorentropy said:

Well, bottled this today. Shooting for about 2.5 vols.

My batch had a slightly higher OG than I was shooting for (ended up at 1.069) and attenuated nicely down to 1.016. The taste I had a bottling was... okay. Very grain-forward, kind of sharp (ABV is around 7%). I get some diacetyl and maybe a bit of cooked veggie/DMS kind of stuff going on. Reasonably dry finish with a bit of hop bitterness. Pretty much nothing like what I imagine an Oktoberfest to be, but I'm expecting it'll be reasonably drinkable. This batch had a complex history--the temp got dropped too low immediately after pitching; repitched another Kolsch tube three days later, then fermented steadily at 65F for a week, followed by about 63F for ~20 days, cold crashed for 3. There was still a big frothy krausen on top when I popped the lid off but I'd hit gravity so decided to go ahead and bottle. Need to get this one through the pipeline, especially since I've got so much coming behind it.

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And after reading through all of the past hosannas and awesome pics in that thread and considering again a sample of what I just bottled, I have to say I'm pretty bummed. There were a *ton* of variables in this one that could have thrown things off, so many that trying to track down the specific culprits and correlating them to this thing's various insufficiencies is probably a fruitless exercise (though I'm generally glad I know what they are, I suppose). The hefe I brewed previous to this turned out borderline undrinkable, also very sharp, vegetal and sulfurous and just very unpleasant. Again, I know generally what the problems were there, as well. But it's still quite a bummer.

Last night I racked an ESB to secondary to settle out for a day or two before bottling, and my tasting sample was excellent. I'm incredibly excited for this beer to bottle condition and get into my fridge. It and the Rochefort 8 clone that's currently fermenting happily away in my closet are great consolation to me when I look at the ~4 cases of beer (the Oktoberfest and hefe) that I'll either drink grudgingly or not at all, never mind sharing it with friends and family. As I sip a beautifully-simple malt-forward 3-month-old IPA of my own devising, I find I'm capable of RDWHAHB, but only just. Without the promise of that stuff coming down the pipeline, I could see how I might be pretty down on myself and the hobby at this moment.

I haven't really experienced a ton of disappointment as a homebrewer up to this point. Partly the sharper sense of discouragement probably stems from the fact that I'm in a manic phase vis-a-vis beer lately, and have been reading, tasting, and brewing a lot. The more I learn, the more conscious about things I get, the harsher a critic I am of my own efforts. And I'm sure I'm not alone.

I'm curious to hear from other intermediate-to-advanced homebrewers who have had maybe some adverse experiences. What did you learn? Did it make you look at the hobby differently? Have you ever considered the amount of time & money you've spent on a batch (or in general) in juxtaposition to your finished product and just been profoundly discouraged? I love homebrewing and have made more than a few fantastic beers, but sometimes I think I'm at a point where the geekery and reading and actual process of brewing brings me more satisfaction than what ends up in my glass.

One thing I've found after making a significant amount of beer: if you are shooting for a certain style, stick to the recipe, and adjust post facto if necessary. More is NOT better.

In the case of your ocfest, I would definitely have added water to get it down to 1.055. It makes a difference.

Next tiime you make a beer (or with one of your current beers), get some commercial examples, then have a friend assist you in a blind comparison. You might be surprised.

Dump any beer you find difficult to drink. Or give it away. I've done this on numerous occasions, and good riddance.

wow did i post this?

Shouldn't oktoberfest ferment around 60f since the actual beer is 5-10 degrees warmer? That could be the problem. And remember KISS

Time can do alot for a beer.

For example, I did a batch of the Graff cider. It was decent, but I spent most of the time consuming it thinking "I could be drinking beer instead of this..." For some reason though it just hit what it needed to in the last week and became fantastic.

But sometimes you just don't have that luxury. I did a batch of AHS Scotch Ale twice and both times it just didn't come out right. I also did a few of their 20th Anniversary brews and they were distinctly "Meh" at best. Sure, it's beer alrighty but do I want to devote space in my keezer to something that I'm just not all that fond of?

I brew for myself. If it doesn't knock my socks or trip my trigger then it's going down the drain.

I've been brewing for the past 5 years, and probably have experienced every disappointment known. I moved to all grain about 3 years ago, which drastically improved the control I have over styles/types of beers I'm making.

The real breakthrough for me came not too long ago. After mediocre batches, I really looked at my process from start to finish.

The first thing, double checking my sanitation process, it's a pain in the @ss, but probably the most important aspect of brewing great beer.
The second part of the process, I finally invested in an o2 system to re-oxygenate the wort after boil. I can’t begin to describe how vigorous all my fermentations have been since. Short lag time on fermentation will always equal a better beer.

Third part, fermentation temp control. Aside from sanitation, this is what I believe is the most crucial part of brewing. If you have the ability to control the fermentation temps, you eliminate virtually every variable related to fermentation. I bought a 5cu Chest Freezer from Lowes, Ranco controller, and it’s been by far the best $200 I’ve invested in brewing.

Fourth, I originally subscribed to the 2 weeks in primary, 2 weeks secondary/conditioning rule. However, that was actually part of the problem. I now ferment all my batches for a minimum of 3 weeks in the primary; this gives the yeast time to do ‘its thing’, which is clean up! A lot of the tastes and flavors in my previous beers were related to not allowing the yeast enough time to really do their job.


Fifth, I made the same recipe 5 batches in a row, using the same grains, yeast, etc. I wanted to see the difference from batch to batch. Once I was confortable, and convinced that I was making the exact same recipe with consistancy, I moved on. It's also worth noting, that for the longest time, I only used liquid yeast. Now I'm 100% DRY YEAST, Consistent, predictable, repeatable. <-- that might be my own experience, but I've had no problem since switching.


So with a bit of process improvement, better equipment, I&#8217;m making some of the best beers I&#8217;ve ever made. Stick with it. Is it cheaper to go by a 30 pack of the yellow fizzy stuff? Sure, but I don&#8217;t brew because I&#8217;m trying to save money on beer, it&#8217;s a hobby, it&#8217;s fun, and you get to drink it!

Cheers!

Awesome post, man, thanks for the reply! All sound advice, I think. The swamp cooler is a new addition to my brewing arsenal, and I'm hoping it will lead to some substantially better beers. Will definitely look into more advanced means of oxygenation in the future, too.

Also this afternoon I decided to give the same hefe recipe another shot, partially due to that post.

Nice, good luck!

I am glad the dry yeast is working for you, but you are at a disadvantage for certain styles with dry yeast only. Beligans, hefes, etc. There is really no reason why you shouldn't be able to get consistent results from liquid yeast.

Very true, I'm not opposed to liquid yeast, and have turned out great beers as a result. I've just had consistant luck with Dry Yeasties, and most strains fit the styles of beer I drink.

When I need to use liquid, I always make a starter, which is something that I wasn't doing years ago. I've seen great results from strong starters.

Cheers

My last two brews were drinkable but disappointing. Mutliple screwups. The one in primary now stuck at 1.04. I am not discouraged though. My first 5 beers went really well and I don't think I learned as much from those beers as the ones that I messed up. It will pay off in the long run.

Beezy said:

My last two brews were drinkable but disappointing. Mutliple screwups. The one in primary now stuck at 1.04. I am not discouraged though. My first 5 beers went really well and I don't think I learned as much from those beers as the ones that I messed up. It will pay off in the long run.

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key is - keep brewing... keep growing

slothorentropy said:

Awesome post, man, thanks for the reply! All sound advice, I think. The swamp cooler is a new addition to my brewing arsenal, and I'm hoping it will lead to some substantially better beers. Will definitely look into more advanced means of oxygenation in the future, too.

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I agree that ferm control is key. Like the OP, I'd gotten really down on brewing after losing 2 batches in a row. Off flavors were common and even my good efforts were only kinda "meh."

What saved my love of brewing cost only $80 complete: an old mini-fridge from CL and Johnson temp controller. Since then my beer has gone from mediocre to something I'm proud of. Plus, since I got the new set up, I'm brewing more than ever. I'm still nervous when I try each new batch, but it's been four pleasant surprises, and I've got two more batches fermenting right now

For what its worth I probably brewed for a year before I would give out homebrew and feel really proud that it was my creation. Before that most of my beers turned out drinkable but not awesome. It gets better. Your good/meg/bad beer ratio will start improving drastically

Brewing is a process-related task -- the greater control you have over each step of the process, the better.

Brewing is also relying on the actions of billions of cells of a living organism -- doing everything you can [process-wise] to make them happy will pay off.

What does this mean?

1) Pitch enough yeast (dry yeast or liquid w/ starter).
2) Control your fermentation temperatures.

There are a bunch of other *tweak* you can make to the process, but these two are IMHO the most important steps to improving your brewing.

My first 6 batches were undrinkable due to high fermentation temperatures.

Spent $70 on a used 9cu freezer and $55 on an unwired Ranco digi TC and have been making awesome beer ever since.

Some recipes are meh (ESB with EKG) and some are surprisingly awesome (SMaSH cascade and MO). In this case only real difference was ESB has EKG hops and a little crystal. same yeast. Everyone preferred the version with cascade and a couple mentioned I must rebrew it.

I find myself extremely discouraged at the moment. i invest almost all of my extra cash, time, passion, effort and more into brewing. i am constantly reading and testing and experimenting and ive learned alot, brewed some great beers etc.. But whats really getting to me is it doesnt matter how good your beer tastes if it is primed incorrectly. i almost AlWAYS have either uncarbonated bottles, or exploding bottles, or undercarbed kegs. i mean come on. I just dont understand how to be consistant enough with priming to have drinkable beer every time. i am highly discouraged and honestly getting sick of wasting my money. Like one of the posts i saw before. " it seems like reading and researching and brewing give me more satisfaction then what ends up in my glass ". What can i do to stop being discouraged so bad. any suggestions?

OBSCZONER said:

i almost AlWAYS have either uncarbonated bottles, or exploding bottles, or undercarbed kegs. i mean come on. I just dont understand how to be consistant enough with priming to have drinkable beer every time. any suggestions?

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The simplest answer is force carb. You have more control over the carbonation.

I've gone to a 14.8 cu ft chest freezer with a 20lb co2 tank that is carbing all my beers in keg. If I want to bottle, I use a beergun. The downside is the expense...I dropped a lot on the tank, freezer, regulator, distributors, tubing, more kegs, etc.

OBSCZONER said:

I find myself extremely discouraged at the moment. i invest almost all of my extra cash, time, passion, effort and more into brewing. i am constantly reading and testing and experimenting and ive learned alot, brewed some great beers etc.. But whats really getting to me is it doesnt matter how good your beer tastes if it is primed incorrectly. i almost AlWAYS have either uncarbonated bottles, or exploding bottles, or undercarbed kegs. i mean WTF. I just dont understand how to be consistant enough with priming to have drinkable beer every time. i am highly discouraged and honestly getting sick of wasting my money. Like one of the posts i saw before. " it seems like reading and researching and brewing give me more satisfaction then what ends up in my glass ". What can i do to stop being discouraged so bad. any suggestions?

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Holy cow, you guys are depressing - not meaning that to be a direct insult at all, but we ALL go through some disappointments! I'm a musician and let me tell you writers block is waaaaaaay worse than anything I've experienced beer related.

But, let me see eye to eye with you for a moment. I've been doing extract brews since January, that's when I'd started. I've had great success with 98% of my beers and have had a pumpkin extract recipe I came up with be awful and had to dump it - and yes I waited quite some time. I recently went to AG and my first brew was a pumpkin ale. I had a false bottom and I open the spigot to ZERO flow. Apparently the false bottom was warped and grain easily got under so I had to dump the whole thing into my BK using a straining bag. I somehow still hit the recipe's OG, though it was lower than Beersmith's estimates. I tasted one anxiously at one week in the bottle and it tastes damn good.

Fast forward to AG batch #2, a hefeweizen. I'd returned the false bottom and got a bazooka screen - worked wonders! However, my efficiency was 56% freaking percent!!! I had to correct with DME. That is certainly disheartening. Everyone suggested the crush so I got a grain mill. AG batch #3, a Belgian Wit, everything went flawlessly.

Sometimes dropping money and learning as we go is the name of the game and how things flow. It sucks but it happens.

In regard to your priming option, there has to be something you are doing incorrectly. I've used Cooper's carb drops and I've bulk primed using 5oz of Corn Sugar and I have not yet had one single bottle explode nor any under carbed bottled. Heck, I made a 7.33% ABV Weizenbock and the bottles were perfectly carbed at two weeks, though I always wait three. On that batch I used 1 & 1/2 Coopers carb drops per 500ml (16.9oz) bottle.

Maybe try using carb drops for a few batches to keep it consistent and ease the stress. I wouldn't recommend using them permanently because they are way over priced and it's easier to bulk prime. Only thing I can ask about your bulk priming bottle exploding issue is - do you give the beer a gentle stir after adding the priming sugar? most rack on top but I add the sugar to my primary that also has a bottling spigot, so I give it a gentle few stirs before I start sanitizing my bottles. Always has worked fine. Don't be so discouraged, it sure can be... I've been there, but it's a learning phase and will past.


Rev.

I over carbed my holiday beer... no bottle bombs (yet) but it's all head when poured. The over carbing was my own issue. First, I didn't let it sit in primary near long enough... it could have used another two weeks... and there was a ton of yeast still swimming. I didn't let it sit because I didn't listen to my gravity checks. Second, when I went into primary, I added an extra 1/2 gallon of water to hit the OG... so when I bottled, I added extra corn sugar to the priming batch (I calculated it, but not correctly methinks) and went on my merry way.

The beer is drinkable, pretty smooth for an 8% abv... but should have been 9%. So, I'm thinking there was too much unfermented sugar, and too many yeasties around to make the wonderful carbonation.

I refuse to get discouraged, however... I've watched my daughter fall off horses jumping 3 foot jumps (falling about 8ft) onto her back, and get back on them. So, a bad batch of beer is nothing (to me). It's still usually drinkable if you give it time... and if not, well, brew another batch.

Not sure this will help you, but I get where you're coming from. Do the ol' relax and have a home brew thing, and stop reading for a while and brew!

I became very discouraged and almost gave up brewing entirely after a dozen so-so extract batches. I saw a $14 cooler in Walmart and decided to give it one more go with grain. I made good beer for the first time. It turns out my well water just doesn't jive with extract. I say this not to open up the extract/grain floodgates, but to suggest that maybe you only have one little problem. Maybe you should take a smoke break for a month or two and think it over. Read some "problem" threads on here and re-think your whole process. You may stumble onto something you usually skip over if you back away from the whole thing for a second.

for the exploding bottle guy: buy a digital scale to measure your bottling sugar with. i USED to have your problem.

MrManifesto said:

for the exploding bottle guy: buy a digital scale to measure your bottling sugar with. i USED to have your problem.

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It's either that or some time-consuming conversions from weight to dry measurements, with some guesswork thrown in. All very unscientific. Go after consistent repeatability, and then you can start looking at possible problem points.

corncob said:

I became very discouraged and almost gave up brewing entirely after a dozen so-so extract batches. I saw a $14 cooler in Walmart and decided to give it one more go with grain. I made good beer for the first time. It turns out my well water just doesn't jive with extract. I say this not to open up the extract/grain floodgates, but to suggest that maybe you only have one little problem. Maybe you should take a smoke break for a month or two and think it over. Read some "problem" threads on here and re-think your whole process. You may stumble onto something you usually skip over if you back away from the whole thing for a second.

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I had the same problem, my well water is terrible. When I first started brewing, I did two extract batches, and they both tasted like styrofoam. They were undrinkable and I had to dump them. I then switched to All-Grain, and have either bought bottled water, or used a drinking water filter on my well water, and all of my batches after that have been fantastic.

Elaelap said:

Fifth, I made the same recipe 5 batches in a row, using the same grains, yeast, etc. I wanted to see the difference from batch to batch. Once I was confortable, and convinced that I was making the exact same recipe with consistancy, I moved on.

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This is great advice. I have been brewing for a couple of years, and for a while the beer only got better. It got better, with temp control, then going to all-grain. After some success, adisappointing batch is discouraging. I am sure that my expectations have changed, as well. Early on, I just wanted to see the process, and make ok-to-good beer. Now that I have seen what can be achieved, I want great beer each time.

Time to work on the process.

I've had a few less than impressive batches. Break down each step in your process and try to figure out what you could be doing better at each step. If you're not sure, ask around.

I've been brewing for just over a year. I've made more than a dozen 5 gallon batches. Most good, a couple amazing, and a couple terrible. I've been very consistent with recipes from one source over another. My lhbs has fresh ingredients and also a wealth of knowledge that I tap when I'm in there. I'm currently collecting equipment to switch to ag and have been learning as much as I can without practical experience. My personal theory is that it's like a cake from scratch vs. one from a box. The scratch cake just tastes better. I'm hoping anyway. But what a fun hobby. It occupies my thoughts throughout the day. What should I make next? Kinda thoughts.

Ed Wort's Haus Ale is pretty popular. It is a simple recipe so you can concentrate on the recipe/instructions.

Here was my try at it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/first-all-gain-attempt-ed-worts-haus-pale-ale-164288/

I did some kits and switched to all-grain. I am glad I did.