New bad lot of Nottingham yeast ???

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RavenChief

RavenChief

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There seems to be a slow starting trend with Lot number 1080961099V exp 12.2011. Is this a new batch of bad yeast?

Are there other bad lots out there also?

I think I will start "proofing" my dry yeast just to be safe...

Anyone know what other yeast has the same properties as Danstar Nottingham? I have some SF-04 which I have been told is close. Or is it SF-05 that is close to Nottingham?
 
I just picked up a pack of the same Nottingham yesterday. I proofed it and noticed that it didn't foam the same as it usually does during the proof. I didn't panic because I usually use the Windsor yeast and assumed this one would just behave differently.

I pitched as usual and now, 24 hours later, there is still no head in my primary and VERY little activity.

I phoned the supplier and told them what was happening and said that it seems that the yeast they sold me is bad and they essentially told me "that's impossible, you probably killed it somehow".

Have to love the crap service you get everywhere you go in Canada.

I'm not sure what to do now, all the brewing suppliers are closed and I'm worried that my wort is going to get infected if my yeast isn't doing it's job.
 
I wouldn't say I'm panicking right now but I'm still new to brewing and haven't encountered all of the potential problems yet so I don't quite know how to deal with certain things that come up.

I'm mostly disappointed with the service I received from the supplier and I'm a little stressed about this batch because my last 3 have failed due to some bad advice I got and this would be #4.

I'll keep an eye on it and report back. It seems like the Nottingham, for the most part, have been slow to start and don't outright fail. All I can do now is wait and in the mean time I'll pick up a couple more packets and keep them on hand in case I need to re-pitch.
 
I don't mean this to be rude, honestly, but you say you're new to brewing, but joined this forum in 2008?!!?

I'd let that beer sit for another 24 to 48 hours and see how it goes. At that point take a hydrometer reading to confirm that nothing has been happening. I've had beers that fermented out without any airlock activity.
 
Well, due to my frequent failures I don't brew a lot even though I first joined in 2008. This is my 6th batch ever and my last 3 were failures.

As I said, I will keep an eye on it and see if anything develops. As it is now, everything looks good other than the fact that there's little to no yeast activity.
 
S-05 would be closer to Nottingham than S-04. About 2 weeks ago I tried to use 4 packets of Nottingham from the same lot number as posted above. I always rehydrate my yeast, and noticed that 2 out of the 4 hardly foamed up at all and had a nasty smell to them. I poured them down the drain and pitched some S-05 instead. Between this and the issues I had with the recall batch, I think I might be done with Danstar yeasts.
 
Just pitched with this lot number a couple of hours ago. We'll see how it turns out but I'm not worried.

Btw, my sachet says made in Austria. Usually marks made in Denmark. Maybe they're marked differently for the American market. Or they only send the bad ones for BeerNoob. ;p
 
My brew partner and I made a 12 gallon batch of Ed's pale ale last weekend. We split it into 2 fermenters and pitched a packet of rehydrated Notty into each one. One took off within 12 hours and the other took 36 to show activity. When I mentioned this, my brew partner said that when he hydrated the yeast, one got foamy and the other didn't. They both were from this lot number. I guess that the real test will be in couple of weeks when I sample each one. I will post the taste results then.
 
The samples of this slow Notty will taste like crap (very yeasty fermented at 65). I had to let BM's Centennial Blond condition for over a month to loose the yeast taste. Fermentation took over a week with a 72 hour lag time with this lot#
 
I have the same lot/date as you do and it is amazing...

I have pitched one after rehydrating, and it finished in 72 hours. I made a starter for a big IIPA, and it kicked in 2 hours, finished in 48!

Patience...
 
Why is this lot# so inconsistent? Many people, experienced and noobs, are having different results with this batch.
 
If the yeast lot number is the constant what is the variable?
Talk to the manufacturer.

Forrest
 
marc06 said:
Your beers are turing out like crap because its karma coming to bite you in the ass for comments like this...
Click to expand...

Yeah... you're probably right... it definitely isn't science or poor method that's causing my batches to fail. KARMA GODS STRIKE AGAIN!
 
I'm drinking a Brown Ale fermented with this batch right now and it's fine. Fermented out in about 3 days, with about 6 hours lag time according to my notes.
 
Just checked my batch again, a healthy head of foam has started, it's roughly 1/4 inch thick.

Took 26 hours after pitching for any yeast activity to be visible.
 
Austinhomebrew said:
If the yeast lot number is the constant what is the variable?
Talk to the manufacturer.

Forrest
Click to expand...

Yeah, I understand but why don't you hear so many different brewers complain about US-05 or the like.

When I rehydrated the yeast it all sank to the bottom of the cup to a weird looking mess, no foaming at all in two hour time frame. Is that what good Notty does? Also after 36 hours after pitching I gave my fermenter a stir and I could still see the shape of the little yeast pellets floating in my wort.

I'll admit that I'm not that experienced of a brewer but have a culinary education and I understand the importance of correct procedure. I do have enough experience with dry yeast to know something wasn't right with the Notty I used. What I experienced and what many others are experiencing isn't what good yeast should be doing.
 
I haven't turned out a bad beer with Notty, but have definately noticed a lot longer lag times, less vigorous fermentation and lower attenuation since they went to the new packaging. Notty was my favorite yeast for a variety of beer styles for a couple of years. Now I use S-04, US-05 and S-33 for most everything but stouts.
 
I used this lot # on a amarillo blonde two weeks ago. Fermentation started overnight with rehydration; <12 hours after pitching. Batch fermented out (1.008) in 4 days at ~68*. Samples tasted good.
 
tagz said:
I used this lot # on a amarillo blonde two weeks ago. Fermentation started overnight with rehydration; <12 hours after pitching. Batch fermented out (1.008) in 4 days at ~68*. Samples tasted good.
Click to expand...

Looks good, you're one who got a nice quick start.
 
Rover said:
The samples of this slow Notty will taste like crap (very yeasty fermented at 65). I had to let BM's Centennial Blond condition for over a month to loose the yeast taste. Fermentation took over a week with a 72 hour lag time with this lot#
Click to expand...

I used it in BMCB too. The yeast never did clean up the Acetylaldehide and my blonde had a crisp green apple finish. Wasn't entirely unpleasant and I've only got a couple gallons left of the original 10. I'm too chicken to use Danstar again though.

To the OP, I always keep a couple packs of US05 around JIC. It's got decent shelf life and can always ferment out pretty much anything. If I were in your shoes, I'd make darn sure I had a backup.
 
Never had any probs with Notty, always bubbling away when I wake up in the morning!!! But I only use dry yeast when I'm lazy or brewing unexpectedly.
 
I'm assuming everyone who is reporting a problem with this yeast is reporting it to Danstar?!!?? Personally, I've never had a problem with Nottingham yeast. It has always worked great. I'm not totally convinced that there is a problem. You get one or two people reporting a problem and suddenly every Johnny come lately who has an issue with a beer starts claiming that their crappy sanitation/inability to control ferment temps/underpitching are clearly a result of a defective packet of yeast. If there is a problem, let Danstar know. They have been pretty good in the past at taking care of problem batches.
 
Clayton said:
the BREWER AND METHOD
Click to expand...

It is just too easy to make pot shots when you have not had the same experience. I have used Nottingham for 90% of my last 100 gallons, no problems, great beer, same process for the most part and, um , same brewer.

I pitched Nottingham last week, same lot number, and got a very long lag time and not much activity, VERY different from anything I have experienced before with this yeast. I do think there is something going on with this lot. I emailed the mfg and have not heard back.

I'm likely to keep this batch 2 weeks in primary and 1 week in secondary so I won't know for 4-5 weeks or so if this beer was compromised.
 
Does Kool-aid ferment? I was curious and threw one pack of this lot number. After a week of no activity, I went to the store and threw a second in. I'm now pushing 3 weeks since the start and after seeing this thread, I will contact Danstar.

But seriously has anyone tried to ferment Kool-Aid?
 
None of you can decree a yeast bad, until

1) You wait 72 hours

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-show-visible-signs-43635/, and by visible signs we don't necessarily mean a bubbling airlock.

It IS a sticky at the top of the beginners forum for a reason, afterall. ;)

As already stated in the linked sticky, Fermentation often can take up to three days to start . And be perfectly normal!!! And by visible signs they do NOT mean airlock bubbling.

b) You confirm it with a HYDROMETER READING. AFTER 72 Hours.

Otherwise you are panicking for nothing.......And spreading undue worry/panic for nothing. Just because a yeast behaving how YOU think it should or want it to, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the yeast.

Even the RECALLED lot of Notty still fermented beer. It just worked slower than other batches. Here's exactly how the old recall played out;

We have done some internal quality checks that have shown that a higher than normal percentage of Nottingham yeast in 11 gram sachet packs from batch #1081140118V (expiration date of Jan. 2011) exhibit slow fermentation characteristics.

 While this is not affecting the majority of packages from this batch, as a safeguard we would like to replace sachets of this batch of Nottingham with new inventory from a different batch. If you have any Nottingham yeast with this batch number, please return it by mail to: Lallemand Inc.
Attn: Marie Coppet
6100 Royalmount
Montreal, QC, Canada
H4P 2R2

We will replace each sachet sent along with extra sachets to compensate you for postage costs. We apologize for any inconvenience and thank you for your support. Should you have any questions, please contact our Montreal order desk by e-mail at [email protected] .
Keith Lemcke
Danstar Yeast Sales"
Click to expand...

Slow "fermentation characteristics" is STILL not "dead yeast" it's SLOW YEAST. And if you left your beer alone for a month in primary like many of us do, you would never even know anything was wrong.
 
Well I guess we'll (I'll) see! One reason I use Nottingham for everything but a few beers is because I know it. It behaves consistently, so I can predict my beer -- that's (one of) the point(s)!

So this is different. Maybe better? I am guessing not but, as you say I will find out in a month. Not a thing was different in my process, I did the same thing this time as I did the last 10 brew days. Everything looked the same, smelled the same, took the same time and was at the same temperature. Actually the only difference was that I mashed high for this batch - 158 vs my typical 149-154. Could this be the thing that made this yeast do nothing for 3 days? That seems a bit far fetched but hell what do I know.

That not being the case I would rather pitch something that behaves the same way from batch to batch so I can concentrate on recipe changes to experiment rather than be at the mercy of inconsistent fermentation. I think! Maybe I'll have a better beer this time (that's hard to conceive of since my beer is so bloody good normally - everybody says!!)

Steve
 
Shooter said:
I'm assuming everyone who is reporting a problem with this yeast is reporting it to Danstar?!!?? Personally, I've never had a problem with Nottingham yeast. It has always worked great. I'm not totally convinced that there is a problem. You get one or two people reporting a problem and suddenly every Johnny come lately who has an issue with a beer starts claiming that their crappy sanitation/inability to control ferment temps/underpitching are clearly a result of a defective packet of yeast. If there is a problem, let Danstar know. They have been pretty good in the past at taking care of problem batches.
Click to expand...

I emailed their customer service a couple of weeks ago when I found I had the previous bad lot. Never got a response.
 
Revvy said:
Even the RECALLED lot of Notty still fermented beer. It just worked slower than other batches.



Slow "fermentation characteristics" is STILL not "dead yeast" it's SLOW YEAST. And if you left your beer alone for a month in primary like many of us do, you would never even know anything was wrong.
Click to expand...

Thanks Revy for chiming in,

Do you (or anyone else) recall that if the bad lot actually was associated with any off flavors? If not, no big deal I can be patient. From everything I have read, I understand that the faster the better, less chance of wild yeasts to take over before the good stuff does, and less stress on the yeast. I'm so new to this great hobby that I don't even know that if this is true. I've spent hundreds of dollars to control every aspect of the brewing process to make great tasting beer and thanks to the generous people here at the HBT and the suppliers I have been making some really tasty brew:mug:

If all I have to do is spend a few extra cents on a pack of yeast to avoid anything unexpected than that was probably the best money I spent on that batch (other than my fermenting chamber:)).

Again, thanks for your, and everyone elses help!

I'll be waking up at 5:30AM for my first SMaSH in my effort to start understanding individual ingredients, only this time I'll be pitching US-05;)
 
:None of you can decree a yeast bad, until

1) You wait 72 hours = Done. I actually waited around 120+ hours before I pulled a sample.
2) You confirm it with a HYDROMETER READING. AFTER 72 Hours = Done. Still stuck at 1.014 the same as it was before the Notty.

I don't like to jump on the Chicken Little/Sky Is Falling bandwagon if at all possible but in this instance I am just telling it like it is, as least with respect to my experience. It sounds like there might be a bad batch based on what has been posted but who knows? Does it mean that I won't ever use Notty again - not necessarily. Does it mean that I will lean toward 05 from here on when I need to use a dry yeast - yes, provided the 05 brings the TG down whereas the Notty could not. If the 05 does not do the job then I can't blame the Notty.

I ended up transferring from the 5 gal BB that it was in to another 5 gal BB. The Notty yeast was there on the bottom of the BB. The wort smelled fine - typical Saison (I didn't taste) so I don't believe the Notty harmed anything - it just didn't do anything.

I pitched a pack of 05 on the transfer and it is bubbling occasionally. Hopefully it will take my TG down below 1.010 so I can keg this and be done with it already. Montanaandy
 
Montanaandy said:
:None of you can decree a yeast bad, until

1) You wait 72 hours = Done. I actually waited around 120+ hours before I pulled a sample.
2) You confirm it with a HYDROMETER READING. AFTER 72 Hours = Done. Still stuck at 1.014 the same as it was before the Notty.

I don't like to jump on the Chicken Little/Sky Is Falling bandwagon if at all possible but in this instance I am just telling it like it is, as least with respect to my experience. It sounds like there might be a bad batch based on what has been posted but who knows? Does it mean that I won't ever use Notty again - not necessarily. Does it mean that I will lean toward 05 from here on when I need to use a dry yeast - yes, provided the 05 brings the TG down whereas the Notty could not. If the 05 does not do the job then I can't blame the Notty.

I ended up transferring from the 5 gal BB that it was in to another 5 gal BB. The Notty yeast was there on the bottom of the BB. The wort smelled fine - typical Saison (I didn't taste) so I don't believe the Notty harmed anything - it just didn't do anything.

I pitched a pack of 05 on the transfer and it is bubbling occasionally. Hopefully it will take my TG down below 1.010 so I can keg this and be done with it already. Montanaandy
Click to expand...

Are you talking about using NOTTY as a repitch to finish out a saison?!?! That is VERY different than simply stating Nottingham didn't ferment your beer.
 
I used this lot on a batch brewed last weekend. No airlock activity, no krausen at all, but after 4 days my gravity was down to 1.012 from an OG of 1.044.
 
With all due respect, I just don't think I could ever wait 72 hours just to see if my yeast will get kicking. Normally I see bubling in my airlock within 6-8 hours. If I go past 24 hours without signs of fermentation I will repitch with yeast I know is good. I spend too much time and money brewing a batch to wait 72 hours and get beer that is "off". I have had mostly good luck with Nottingham but lately it has been slow. Bottom line is I am looking for other yeasts to sub for Nottingham. If I use Nottingham again I will be sure to "proof" my yeast before I pitch.
 
BeerNoob said:
Yeah... you're probably right... it definitely isn't science or poor method that's causing my batches to fail. KARMA GODS STRIKE AGAIN!
Click to expand...

Your right on here bud, You are most definitely the problem. I have little sympathy for you when your simply blaming the company, when you just told us the last 3 batches u made were also garbage. it just sounds to me like you dont know what your doing.

and Canada kicks ass. I dont see how you can say service sucks in an entire country just because Danstar didnt give you the service you wanted. what a crock.
 
RavenChief said:
With all due respect, I just don't think I could ever wait 72 hours just to see if my yeast will get kicking. Normally I see bubling in my airlock within 6-8 hours. If I go past 24 hours without signs of fermentation I will repitch with yeast I know is good. I spend too much time and money brewing a batch to wait 72 hours and get beer that is "off". I have had mostly good luck with Nottingham but lately it has been slow. Bottom line is I am looking for other yeasts to sub for Nottingham. If I use Nottingham again I will be sure to "proof" my yeast before I pitch.
Click to expand...

I would say at least 50% of my batches show no sign of fermentation in the airlock and, since they're in buckets, I have very little way of knowing if they're fermenting. Turns out every single one has fermented just fine. If you don't want to wait, don't, it's your beer, but, that's not necessarily an indication that Danstar has a problem batch. Best of luck with your future brews! :mug:
 

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