What level are you?

So I was doing an inventory of equipment in my garage and noticed how I've advanced my craft over the past two years. It got me thinking....what qualifies someone as a novice brewer, an intermediate brewer, and an advanced brewer? Is it all-grain brewing? Constructing your own brewing sculpture? Going from bottling to kegging?

I doubt there's a right answer...but what do you think makes someone a beginner, intermediate, or advanced brewer?

I would say amount of times you brewed would determin Your level.

I've been brewing over 4 years. All grain and kegging. But I've only brewed 9 brew days. With 6 in the last 6 months.

In years, equipment and quality of my last 6 batches someone would think I'm advanced.

But in experience I'm a noob. I feel you need batches under your belt to be advanced.

I think these factors are the most important (to me):

1. Number of years actively brewing.
2. Number of batches brewed.
3. Number of different styles of beer brewed.
4. Quality of the end product. (last but NOT least)
5. Consistency and Repeatability

I would say I'm somewhere in between beginner and intermediate. I've got almost 2 years and 70 or so batches under my belt, and have brewed many different styles. I've received a first place and a third place in the two competitions I've entered as well, and people of all walks seem to enjoy my beer. I've moved from extract to All Grain 5 gallon batches, then up to 10 gallon AG batches. I've built my equipment based on guides and ideas I've seen here and come up with myself. I think I'm on the right track.

BUT, I've got a few areas I'd really like to improve and expand my expertise in:

1. Consistency/Repeatability
2. Brew more styles, specifically Belgians, Imperials, and Lagers.
3. Recipe formulation - I want to expand the number of recipes that I have developed on my own or with very little outside help.
4. Equipment - I'd like to get a HERMS/RIMS setup to do step mashes, decoctions, etc. which will expand my brewing knowledge and repertoire.

TwoHeadsBrewing said:

Consistency and Repeatability

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Here here.

I'll never consider myself an advanced homebrewer until this happens. I could easily read every book and talk a good game, but the proof is in the proverbial pudding.

Nowhere near there yet. Tryin' damn hard, though.

high-functioning novice?

ChshreCat said:

high-functioning novice?

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Same here.

I think the sole determining factor in your brewing level has to be your post count on the HBT..

JamieT said:

I think the sole determining factor in your brewing level has to be your post count on the HBT..

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Hear Hear!!

advanced beginner with delusions of adequacy!

Can I claim "Beer Savant"?

I'm.. I'm an excellent brewer... yeah... I'm an excellent brewer...

Calvinfan1 said:

So I was doing an inventory of equipment in my garage and noticed how I've advanced my craft over the past two years. It got me thinking....what qualifies someone as a novice brewer, an intermediate brewer, and an advanced brewer? Is it all-grain brewing? Constructing your own brewing sculpture? Going from bottling to kegging?

I doubt there's a right answer...but what do you think makes someone a beginner, intermediate, or advanced brewer?

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My thoughts, as a complete novice.

A beginner is someone like me, who can follow brew instructions but doesn't know everything about the mechanics (chemistry and microbiology) behind what's being done.

An intermediate person understands all of the instructions and why they're followed, including pitfalls and solutions.

An advanced brewer is someone who can take brewing to an additional level, just by understanding the theory and mechanics behind brewing and adapting to their own desires. An advanced brewer would be capable of creating a new brew, not found in recipies and perhaps not conceived of by anyone else.

That's a good question, and my first instinct is to say strictly that extract brewers = beginner, but then I thought about it for a minute. There are many aspects of brewing, and though it may sound more complicated that what you implied originally, I think someone could be on many different levels, and it could be tough to just classify them as beginner or intermediate. Take for example, someone who is extract brewing, but yet makes a yeast starter on a stirplate, or uses Beersmith to calculate the exact IBU's and hop utilization. Or someone who does all grain and controls fermentation temperature with a fermentation chiller, but does not calculate yeast pitching amounts and still bottles his homebrew. I would consider myself to be intermediate as far as all grain equipment and mashing, but I'm still a beginner when it comes to recipe formulation, flavor characteristics of hops and grains, and beginner for yeast pitching and flavors associated with different strains of yeast.

I'm definitely beginner. That's a tough question though. I think just having the brewing experience in general, a mix of # of batches, # of threads on HBT you've read(and understood), success of your brews.

I don't think consistency should be a goal, since it seems like we're all changing/upgrading equipment every chance we get.

I think of advanced as, you walk into the LHBS, and just start picking up ingredients, knowing exactly what each will add to the brew, and why. And then brewing to get exactly what you thought you would get.

I've been brewing for about four months and have made a batch once every couple of weeks or so. In this time I went from extract to AG and from bottling to keggging. I read everything I can get my hands on whenever I have time and I try to learn something new about this addiction every day. I like to think of it as the overly ambitious drunken noob level.

To me, an advanced brewer possesses an understanding of the process, ingredients and tools that allows him/her to achieve the results he/she sets out to achieve. It has nothing to do with number of batches brewed, other than as you brew more your understanding increases. You could brew 10 batches have that understanding or you could brew 500 batches and still be clueless.

Foamenter said:

I don't think consistency should be a goal, since it seems like we're all changing/upgrading equipment every chance we get.

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I'd disagree with you. To me, consistency is the hallmark of a great brewer. If you really want to see how good you are, brew the same recipe over and over until you can nail it every time.

I agree with Denny...

Anyone can shoot in the dark and miss thier OG... anyone can. A good brewer knows the process and his system well enough to plan a brew and hit his/her target OG and FG. If you cannot do that, well then you are just making random attempts at trying to hit the OG and FG etc.

Over the past year I have gotten 82% and 83% on all of my brews. The thing is I know my system, much of it is automated, everything happens the same way each time. I am not a great brewer, but the tools that I have at my disposal make me repeatable.

Making the SAME recipe over and over and making it the same is good... but try making different recipes and KNOWING what your OG will be and your FG. If you can do that, you are a great brewer, because you are controlling the outcome, you arent simply accepting what you get.

I am a novice as far as I am concerend, there is much to learn and I am just starting to feel like I can manipulate each step to do what I want it to do.

Calvinfan1 said:

So I was doing an inventory of equipment in my garage and noticed how I've advanced my craft over the past two years. It got me thinking....what qualifies someone as a novice brewer, an intermediate brewer, and an advanced brewer? Is it all-grain brewing? Constructing your own brewing sculpture? Going from bottling to kegging?

I doubt there's a right answer...but what do you think makes someone a beginner, intermediate, or advanced brewer?

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As far as i am conserned, there are no levels to home brewing. I've been at this stuff from the mid 70's, but that doen't mean squat. The noobie with the first pale of LME is just as much a homebrewer as anyone else. Aside from a few swellheaded sh*tbirds who think they are "gods gift to homebrew", I think everyone feels the same. nuff said.....

I shall consider myself a novice until I brew a beer that does well at a respectable competition.


At this point I shall reach intermediate-dom. From there I'm sure it's only a few steps to swellheaded shvtbird.

ChshreCat said:

high-functioning novice?

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Barely functioning obsessive?

I am a novice.

TwoHeadsBrewing said:

I think these factors are the most important (to me):

1. Number of years actively brewing.
2. Number of batches brewed.
3. Number of different styles of beer brewed.
4. Quality of the end product. (last but NOT least)
5. Consistency and Repeatability

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Hmmm...

I can answer yes to all of these.

1. I've been brewing actively for about a dozen years.
2. I lost count years ago on how many batches I've brewed.
3. I've brewed more styles than I can remember, even some that I didn't care for.
4. My beers come pretty darned good, if I do say so myself.
5. The repeat recipes, a.k.a. my "house beers" come out the same every time.

I guess that would make me an "advanced brewer".

BUT........

I think there should be a fourth category: Expert. This I am not. I think an expert brewer is one that know and understands a lot of the science behind it, and can apply it to his/her brewing. This is not me. I know what I know from sheer experience. I can tell you what a certain procedure or ingredient will do to your beer, but I can't always tell you why. So while I think I may be an advanced brewer, I'm no expert.

People brew for different reasons so there are just as many qualifiers for different levels of success.

If you're just doing it for yourself, to make interesting beverages, I think you've won as soon as you start making beer you're happy drinking. A step up from there is being able to make something taste exactly how YOU want it to.

If you're of the opinion that success is measured by the outside world, it gets a lot harder. I think the only way to judge it there is whether you make beers people would pay for or that score well in large competitions. In that regard, brewing for a successful brewpub or winning Ninkasi is about as advanced/expert as it gets.

Personally I think I'm a novice on the verge of intermediate if I can iron a couple more things out. I'm hypercritical of my beers and I'm starting to make stuff that I'm proud of, both to drink and share. From a competition level, I consistently score in the high 30's and that says "passable" to me. Low 40's would be nice.

I am very newbie... only 3 batches in but loving it..

I am my own Brewmaster, and I'm good with that. :rockin:

All kidding aside, I would classify myself as a beginner within sight of intermediate. I still do extract + steeping, but that's because I figured I could learn more about the complexities of the flavors of the grains & hops I'm using by keeping one thing constant (extract), and still have a mostly drinkable beer. I'm working on formulating my own recipes, mainly as experiments, and am tweaking them a little at a time. I use BeerSmith, keg, built my own Jockey Box, and haven't bought a kit in a while.

No where near advanced, but closely edging up the ladder.

Equipment has nothing to do with the level of ones experience.

I don't know where I'd rate myself. I do somethings well and other things I'm working on. I guess novice/intermediate would apply to me. I do use some advanced techniques, like decoction mashing, and I like the results I get most of the time. But I have yet to say, "YES! That beer is perfect and the pinnacle of my brewing career!"

schweaty said:

Equipment has nothing to do with the level of ones experience.

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I disagree with this statement. I think it takes experience to properly utilize certain pieces of equipment. Also, there are people who have worked hard developing kegerators, brewing machines, and other items because they've experienced brewing without them and have taken the time to develop their personal brewery to improve their beer.

I'm a novice, there is no doubt about that.

YooperBrew said:

I don't know where I'd rate myself. I do somethings well and other things I'm working on. I guess novice/intermediate would apply to me. I do use some advanced techniques, like decoction mashing, and I like the results I get most of the time. But I have yet to say, "YES! That beer is perfect and the pinnacle of my brewing career!"

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I think its fair to give you a 10

To me, an advanced brewer possesses an understanding of the process, ingredients and tools that allows him/her to achieve the results he/she sets out to achieve. It has nothing to do with number of batches brewed, other than as you brew more your understanding increases. You could brew 10 batches have that understanding or you could brew 500 batches and still be clueless.

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Equipment has nothing to do with the level of ones experience.

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Agree and agree. Some people play bad golf their whole life. They play a lot and they buy the best equipment but they still just enjoy playing bad golf...not working on improving their game, etc.

And imo, some of you are sandbagging! No way (imo) that Pol, Yooper, and Bobby_M are novice by any stretch of the imagination.

No way man. I think you're looking at my post count too much. I'm mostly an idea man. Building a counterflow chiller or any other contraption does not make good beer.

I think it's mostly in knowing about the beer. What ingredients do, why you'd use some more than others in a recipe, tasting, and having your process down. I'd say I'm intermediate because I can brew AG, I know what changing various aspects of my process will do to the finished product, and I can now have a brewday where I sit back and relax instead of running around because I forgot to do X until the last minute.

Once I can start to make the same recipe reliably (haven't repeated anything yet; probably won't for a while) and/or I can make beers that score in the upper 30s at AWOG/that the kickass brewers in my club think are really good, then I'll say I'm advanced. I think the first jump is far easier to make than the second.

Perhaps we need a leveling system like workd of warcraft. I checked my beer level and if this next batch turns out good I'm going to level.

I think that up to a certain point equipment CAN say something about a brewer's knowledge and experience level. Does that make them a great brewer? Not necessarily, but Some equipment is only going to be used by a person of higher-than-novice level. (Hoping they understand why they are using that piece of equipment and knowing how to use it properly that is, and not just copying plans because they seen it online).

But someone can certainly struggle with the advanced topics and techniques for a long time. I imagine a lot of us are sort of stuck at around the intermediate level because you can make great beer fairly easily. Being an expert brewer requires not only making a great beer, but being able to understand the process and ingredients at a very high level.

As for myself, I'd place me in the intermediate level. I feel I have a good understanding of most of the brewing process. I'm a bit short on ingredients knowledge. Also, the level of advanced, IMO will take years for me to achieve, with regular study. I just don't get to brew that much. It's one thing to read a book, or surf the web, but quite another to put that knowledge into practice and gain experience.

I can see a lot of us are currently working on figuring out our Water Chemistry and PH in the advanced topics. Some of us are breaking new ground by calling into question the belief that HSA is a problem, or that you need to chill your wort quickly and immediately. That stuff gives us all a better understanding of the brewing process and will someday make it easier for others to get to the advanced level of brewing.

Read a Kaiser post.

You know you are advanced when you can pick out an error in his post and correct.

I am not there yet.

Bobby_M said:

No way man. I think you're looking at my post count too much. I'm mostly an idea man. Building a counterflow chiller or any other contraption does not make good beer.

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No problem...it wasn't based on anything equipment/build related (IMO, building stuff just makes one less of a novice at...building stuff). I guess we just we define 'novice' differently.

jspence1 said:

Perhaps we need a leveling system like workd of warcraft. I checked my beer level and if this next batch turns out good I'm going to level.

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The worst part about leveling in World of Homebrew, is all the "Grinding".

Novice = Pulse at brew time above 120 bpm with flop sweats and nervous disposition
Intermediate = Pulse at brew time between 100 - 120 bpm, mild sweats and able to smile
Advanced = Pulse at brew time only affected by the amount of coffee or beer being consumed, sweating only due to outdoor heat or heat from banjo burner. Relaxed and allllllright disposition.

Somewhere in the calculation throw in the number of "oh ****!" moments and/or "man did I forget X or Y?" moments during the process. Maybe we can adapt the quarterback rating system....

Calvinfan1 said:

So I was doing an inventory of equipment in my garage and noticed how I've advanced my craft over the past two years. It got me thinking....what qualifies someone as a novice brewer, an intermediate brewer, and an advanced brewer? Is it all-grain brewing? Constructing your own brewing sculpture? Going from bottling to kegging?

I doubt there's a right answer...but what do you think makes someone a beginner, intermediate, or advanced brewer?

Click to expand...

I'd say it all depends on the outcome of the beer, not the equipment or methods used to make it.