Is it bad to copy homebrew recipes for commercial use?

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Is copying homebrew recipes for commercial use, w/o approval fair?

  • Yes, it is fair.

  • In the middle.

  • No, it is unfair.

  • No opinion.


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Julohan

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Is it bad to copy homebrew recipes for commercial use? Without permission. Say a commercial brewer comes on this website and copies the recipe for their commercial brewery. Does not give any credit whatsoever.

Set aside having one minuscule part of the recipe being different.
Assume that somehow you know the copied recipe came from this website and the beer taste exactly the same and/or the commercial brewery even posted the recipe on their website.

I wanted to see a poll from this already posted thread, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/what-would-you-do-if-your-local-brewery-did-you-191954/

Is it wrong to copy homebrew recipes?
 
It sounds underhanded. But it's not like they can't come up with the same recipe on their own. I guess by just taking one off of here they don't have to do the research. I would say they should give credit. Energy and time spent working on something has value. I say give credit where it's due, otherwise it's a cheat. I hate cheaters!
 
I would tend to believe that any commercial brewer would spend way more time and energy on recipe formulation for a consistant product than any of us HB'ers. Besides most pale ales and IPA's are so close in grain bill that it would be hard to really prove anyone stole a recipe.
 
I think that if I was the brewer who came up with the recipe, I'd be upset out of principal. I can't say that I'd be all that flattered because flattery doesn't pay the bills. Flattery is when you come up with a recipe that another homebrewer wins a gold medal with.

It also depends on the circumstance. You said that there is no credit, and in the other thread, there was even dialogue between the two brewers. In these circumstances it's complete BS. Some commercial breweries give out their recipes, and if some commercial brewery that I liked wanted to use my recipe I would have no problem so long as they asked me first. It's not like online recipes are anonymous anymore. There's always an administrator to ask or the original poster.
 
I'm in the middle. The recipe is public domain and it isn't like any effort was made to protect it. Besides there is so much more to a beer than just the recipe... I'm betting they put some time into formulating a clone that works for their brewing system. On the other hand it is very underhanded/dishonest as I would expect at least a pat on the shoulder and public recognition.
 
Legally wrong? No.
Ethically wrong? Perhaps.

its+not+fair.jpg
 
it may be a bit slimy if used EXACTLY, but not if it's used as a starting point to develop from (i.e. if a recipe is used with a house yeast, for example, then it's not the same beer anymore). After all, commercial brewers are often pretty generous with THEIR recipes and to the home brew community in general.

Personally, I'd be flattered if a probrewer used my recipe for one of their beer, with or without credit. With credit - even if it's only on a website (and not the bottle) would certainly be nice, though.
 
It seems to me that good ideas are likely to be discovered by more than one person, without any copying going on necessarily. (Ie, the wheel, electricity, evolution, America.) With a beer recipe, there's just only so much variation possible, so it could appear to be copied when it was developed independently, unless you have some other evidence to believe that it wasn't. And even in art, derivative works aren't considered copying - it's not illegal to use someone else's original as a component or inspiration to your own work.
 
Wait a minute. The OP says that you somehow knew they took your recipe, brewed it, sold it, and gave no credit. To me that also means that the brewery knew it was yours, but they did it anyway. Now, I know it is not illegal, but definately dirty. So, under the OP, how can that be fair. I love the picture of that kid. That's me, "Unfair!"
 
Unfair. Sure, there is a lot of overlap as far as recipes go but if a corporate entity came on here, grabbed a recipe and brewed it without giving any credit then that's underhanded as hell, and I doubt the publicity from that debacle would benefit them any if at all.
 
it would be pretty funny if a brewer stole the recipe, brewed it on a large scale, then the person who originally brewed it unknowing that it was stolen from them tried to make a clone of it
 
This would be the exact reason why, were I to come up a real award winning recipe that I would NOT provide that recipe in an open environment such as this. I would gladly share amongst friends, but I would not post it out "in the wild" as it were.

It would gall me to no end were a commercial brewery to pick up my recipe, win awards with it and take credit as if they created it. That being said, seeing as though all the beer I have created to date is barely even drinkable I don't think I have to worry about it. ;)
 
I asked a brewer for his porter recipe, and he sent it to me ... looking forward to brewing it next week...I don't think he has to worry about big porter competition from up here in Windham.
 
Most craft beers are homebrew recipes at one point. Additionally, we all start by using other people's recipes. The process makes the beer just as much as anything. I don't think it is off limits to find a recipe online and then brew it on a big scale. I would think that the recipe would evolve over time, too. Any GOOD professional brewer will make adjustments until it is right on their system. It wouldn't be long before it was something all their own.
 
it would be pretty funny if a brewer stole the recipe, brewed it on a large scale, then the person who originally brewed it unknowing that it was stolen from them tried to make a clone of it

lol-43295.jpg


By the way, does the OP happen to live in the Chattanooga, Tennessee area?
 
If they changed it slightly then it's a different recipe. I've done many recipes that I have read on the internet or books and always do it slightly different. As others have said the process is so different from brewer to brewer that I don't think it is much of an issue. I'd certainly like to see something like "inspired by John Q. Publics fabulous Weasel Wassail Ale" attached to the commercial product. (did I get the name right?) LOL
 
it would be pretty funny if a brewer stole the recipe, brewed it on a large scale, then the person who originally brewed it unknowing that it was stolen from them tried to make a clone of it

That is too funny!
 
Nothing is new under the sun. Anyways, the same recipe brewed by a homebrewer and a commercial brewery or any other brewer for that matter is going to taste different according to water, method etc.
 
Getting a five gallon recipe to a seven barrel recipe is probably not as easy as many may think. At best the recipie could be 'inspired' by a homebrew recipe and that should be a honor.
 
What’s the difference from going to the library reading a book how to make cabinets? You make a few then you start selling them. Would it be wrong if you used ideas from that book you read? OR…How about using a Chilton’s book to fix your car? Chilton’s didn’t design the car or build it. They just made printed the drawings and wrote the how to steps to change your brakes. We are not talking about refining Uranium. There are really no hidden secrets to making great beer. We would have to shut off our brains every time we read or looked at something for fear of taking advantage of a good idea.
 
I think crux (Is crux the right word? Is it even a word?) Is if the brewery took it and knew they took it and knew who they took if from and if it was able to be duplicated at a bazzillion barrels and they made money from it, shouldn't they give a little credit?
 
I'd just say that it's lazy as hell. If a commercial brewery sees a homebrew recipe they would like to make, that's fine. They should really make small batches in their system a few times to tweak the recipe and make it more in-tune with their equipment and brewing technique.
Probably depends on the style too though. Many styles don't have much wiggle room in one department or another, which makes it hard to come up with truly unique recipes that are still to style.
 
Getting a five gallon recipe to a seven barrel recipe is probably not as easy as many may think. At best the recipie could be 'inspired' by a homebrew recipe and that should be a honor.

+1 on this one. I just recently worked on upping my 10 gallons recipe to a 10 bbl commercial system. You can't just increase percentages on grain and hops and get the same results. I used the same grain percentages and got the same gravity, but got a completely different color out of the beer. Probably completely off-topic from this thread, but if you guys are interested I can post up side by side shots from my homebrew system and the results of the commercial system.
 
Nothing is new under the sun. Anyways, the same recipe brewed by a homebrewer and a commercial brewery or any other brewer for that matter is going to taste different according to water, method etc.

Totally agree.
Consider how many variables we're talking about here. Between the recipie (most likely gotten from diffrent sources) water, methods, mash temp, shear volume of batch, direct fire vs. steam. Spead of heating, surface area creating carmalization, speed of chilling, freshness of hops used, airation, aging.

if someone puts a recipie out there, it's fair game. It would be hard pressed to claim it's a straight copy as i'd doubt they would look, taste or smell the same anyway
 
To start with, a commercial beer recipe wouldn't be exactly the same due to differences in the brewing process. I do think a homebrewer should get credit IF the beer is brewed under some agree like the OBC/Widmer Collaborator project. Winners get a cool leather jacket and recognition at the tap, but that's all. No cash, which was the problem in the first thread.
 
Nothing is new under the sun. Anyways, the same recipe brewed by a homebrewer and a commercial brewery or any other brewer for that matter is going to taste different according to water, method etc.

Getting a five gallon recipe to a seven barrel recipe is probably not as easy as many may think. At best the recipie could be 'inspired' by a homebrew recipe and that should be a honor.

To me, these are the most relevant points.

1) Nothing is really new. Odds are someone else in this world has been brewing the same recipe for years. Barley, Hops, Water, Yeast - there are only so many variations.

2) Scaling from 5 gals to many bbls takes a little more work than just copying a 5 gal recipe and multiplying the ingredients.

At any rate, if the brewery literally came to the OP and told him they were taking his recipe and weren't giving him any credit, I would agree that is a bit of a d!ck move.
 
At any rate, if the brewery literally came to the OP and told him they were taking his recipe and weren't giving him any credit, I would agree that is a bit of a d!ck move.

Agreed(ish) But if they thought about it properly, they could give credit and at the same time work out a good marketing strategy around the connection just like sam Adam's Long shot promotion. Winners all round in that scenario! :)
 
I suppose it depends on the scale of brewing hypothetically. If you were a small company, I'd have no obligation with you using my recipes for commercial profit. After all, it's a recipe, you're not stealing the product, because you're making it, and it's supporting local breweries.

In a situation where pay was discussed and not given in the end though, that's the same as everything else - they'd be given hell.
 
Agreed(ish) But if they thought about it properly, they could give credit and at the same time work out a good marketing strategy around the connection just like sam Adam's Long shot promotion. Winners all round in that scenario! :)

Oh absolutely. There are a lot of positive things that could be done in this situation. But, judging by the general tone of the OP's comments, I'm guessing that he is feeling as if he has been slighted and not given appropriate recognition.
 
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