Is my cellar ok?

I haven't felt the need to upgrade my fermentation process as my beers are coming out pretty much as I'd expect for someone with my experience. However, I'd love to get some feedback on my fermentation. My cellar stays a consistent 63-65F. I chill my wort down to about 65F for my ales and then pitch. Through fermentation I've seen the temp on the strip go up to 67F, but never higher than that, though I know the internal could be higher. I haven't noticed any strong esters and the beer hasn't had any trouble reaching final gravity.

Does anybody else ferment out in the open in a basement? Seems to work, but I know a lot of people suggest getting better control over ferm temps. Should I be more concerned?

Those temps seem fine to me. People report internal temp to be around 5 degrees warmer, which gives you 72. That a good upper bound. Wouldn't want to go any hotter than that.

For most ales that sounds about like perfect conditions . I'm assuming the temp strip is directly on your fermenter?
If it gets colder in the winter you can always invest in a brew-belt or other type of wrap-heater.

Pez.

While I do not ferment in a basement, I envy you. 63-65 is my ideal ale fermentation range. While that means I like to ferment lower then 63-65 ambient, you are very close to where you want to be. So while it may not be ideal, its close. 67 as a top measured temp is probably okay, though its higher then I like. lots of people are happy with much higher ferment temps. If you are worried about it/hate esters, then you could lower the top temperature during the first 3-5 days using one of the many methods people choose. But if your happy then let it roll! you aren't far off anyway.

In the summer I will use my cellar to ferment simply because is is much cooler in there. In the winter though I use a empty bedroom and turn on the heat.

Right now though it is 45 degrees in there and that might be good for lagering but not so much for the ales that I love.

In the winter my basement stays at about 59-60 degrees, perfect for fermenting ales. In the summer it gets warmer and I have to use my fermentation chamber.

Pezman1 said:

For most ales that sounds about like perfect conditions . I'm assuming the temp strip is directly on your fermenter?
If it gets colder in the winter you can always invest in a brew-belt or other type of wrap-heater.

Pez.

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Yeah, the strips are directly on the fermenters. I use both plastic and glass for primary and both seem to get similar readings. In the dead of winter it only got down to maybe 61F. I am actually in an eight unit brick apartment building that was built in 1929. We are heated by a giant boiler in basement which seems to keep things warm enough in the winter. We each have a large (~5'x10') storage unit in the basement which I use for my fermentation.

I can't imagine trying to ferment in the apartment. It would easily get into the high seventies inside the place while that boiler was roaring.

I use my basement for lagering and a spare bedroom for most other things. The spare hovers around 17C/63F.

Eckythump said:

People report internal temp to be around 5 degrees warmer than the Fermometer

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I believe it is actually been proven to be less than 1F

Genjin said:

Does anybody else ferment out in the open in a basement? Seems to work, but I know a lot of people suggest getting better control over ferm temps. Should I be more concerned?

Click to expand...

I ferment my ales in a bathtub in a downstairs bathroom with no windows and have pretty consistent temperatures. If the temperature starts to rise I fill the tub with water to just below the Fermometer, drape a wet towel over it so the towel is in the water and then I will use a fan to blow air across that if I need to.

Works really well. I can keep the temperature pretty consistent.

jetmac said:

I believe it is actually been proven to be less than 1F

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I have found that to be the case so far as well as I can see with a thermowell.

jetmac said:

I believe it is actually been proven to be less than 1F

Click to expand...

I'm sure some people have experienced less than 1F, but that doesn't prove that other, higher reports are incorrect. I have an automatic fridge with a thermowell and data logger. The fridge connects got unplugged by accident once not long ago, and I was four degrees above ambient within a couple of hours.

MalFet said:

I'm sure some people have experienced less than 1F, but that doesn't prove that other, higher reports are incorrect. I have an automatic fridge with a thermowell and data logger. The fridge connects got unplugged by accident once not long ago, and I was four degrees above ambient within a couple of hours.

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+1

I agree. I believe each fermentation is different but in my experience the beer during the first 72 hours is greater then 1 degree vs. the ambient temperature. Especially since I started making large starters and aerating with pure oxygen.

MalFet said:

I'm sure some people have experienced less than 1F, but that doesn't prove that other, higher reports are incorrect. I have an automatic fridge with a thermowell and data logger. The fridge connects got unplugged by accident once not long ago, and I was four degrees above ambient within a couple of hours.

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I think you have a misunderstanding. We're talking about the temp of the wort in the middle of the fermentor vs. the the temperature indicated on the fermatemp stuck to the side of the fermenter. (or maybe I misunderstood what Eckythump was talking about)

**edit: misunderstood. apologies to all!**

Genjin said:

Does anybody else ferment out in the open in a basement? Seems to work, but I know a lot of people suggest getting better control over ferm temps. Should I be more concerned?

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That's exactly what I do. The floor of my basement is consistently 60-62 degrees so I just put the bucket and carboy right on the floor. They can get up to 64-66 during fermentation and then settle back down. My last few batches I've started using liquid yeasts that like it a bit warmer (65-75) so I insulate the fermenter from the floor to keep it warmer.

I plan on getting better temp control over summer, but that's mostly so I can lager.

Mike

MalFet said:

That's not what a "thermowell" is. My temperature probe sits smack-dab at center mass of my fermentor. The temperature of fermenting beer (i.e., the entire volume of beer) can be significantly more than 1ºF above ambient.

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But clearly the temperature strip that many of use on the outside of our fermenters don't simply measure ambient temp. Mine always show a few degrees above the ambient temp during the first couple of days of activity. So, I think the question was not how much above ambient it is, but rather how much above the temperature strip on the fermenter is it?

Genjin said:

But clearly the temperature strip that many of use on the outside of our fermenters don't simply measure ambient temp. Mine always show a few degrees above the ambient temp during the first couple of days of activity. So, I think the question was not how much above ambient it is, but rather how much above the temperature strip on the fermenter is it?

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Ahh...I see now. Too early and too little coffee. Apologies for the misead. I have not found the sticker thermometers to be particularly accurate, and once they get wet they become even more unreliable.

Many people tape a temperature probe to the side of their carboy and then cover it with insulation. I've done this too, and I've never seen much variation between a properly insulated external probe and a beer-internal probe. But, I'm not sure the extent to which this would apply to the liquid crystal stickers.

MalFet said:

I have not found the sticker thermometers to be particularly accurate, and once they get wet they become even more unreliable.
.

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I'm sorry to hear that.

From tkachenterprises " I conducted an experiment where I put warm water in a glass carboy and placed the entire setup outside in thirty degree weather and compared the fermometer to internal temperatures measured by an immersion fermometer as they came into equilibrium.

What I learned is that for every ten degree difference in temperature between the atmosphere and the fluid in the fermenter, the temperature was off by approximately one degree as follow.

0-10 degrees difference between ambient and internal temperature ~ 1 degree difference between fermometer and immersion thermometer"

Quick Question : When adding degrees F to determine / estimate wort temperature, do we add to the ambient temperature or the fermometer reading?

Long Question :
More useful information about fermentation temperatures and another reason for me to get my DIY thermowell completed. It seems like there are three temperatures at play here :

ambient - the air temperature
fermometer - reading from the outside of the bucket / carboy
thermowell - reading from center of wort

We have all read that the internal fermentation temperature can be higher than the ambient temperature. I've read by as much as 5-10 F. How about the difference between the fermometer temp and the actual wort temp? Is that about 1 F? Consider this example:

ambient = 64
fermometer = 68
wort = 69 ?

The reason I am asking this (again) is because I have been adding 5-10 F onto the fermometer reading and scaring myself because sometimes that puts me above the yeast desired temp range. BUT, if I only add 1 F then I am in the zone.

Hopefully that makes sense.

I think this answers my questions.

From now on I am going to trust what my fermometer reads unless I have just changed the bucket's position to somewhere much warmer or cooler. If my fermometer reads 68 F then I am going to assume my wort is about 68 F as well. I rarely even look at the ambient temperature and it seems that to do so would only add confusion and fear.

I will still build my thermowell when I can because I want to see warm hard facts.

I do measure ambient temperature just for a rough idea of what the wort temperature will be, and then add a few degrees F to account for fermentation... and then measure after awhile with a thermometer.

Fermentation is exothermic, that is its action raises the temperature of the fermenting wort. This change is not consistent across the temperature range as with increasing temperature the activity level of the yeast increases too which causes the temperature to rise. When you start the ferment at the cool end of the yeast's preferred range it works slower and doesn't generate as much heat and the air surrounding the fermenter carries off the heat that is generated. If you surround the fermenter with cool water it can carry off the heat generated even better so your wort temperature will remain low or perhaps be driven lower.