bottling high gravity home brew

Hey! Needing some help here. While my wife is pregnant I have agreed to go on the wagon. (no, painful as it is, that is not what I need help with) I was almost more disapointed to have no brew going than not drinking, so a buddy of mine suggested brewing a barley wine or imperial stout that would be in prime condition to drink right after my wife gives birth. Great idea! I immediately began not 1 but 3 batches. All had an OG above 1.1 and ended up around 1.024-1.029.
I do not have access to kegging equipment, and I am going to have to bottle condition.
1 with a relatively high FG I am assuming that there are some residual sugars left, I know to use less priming sugar, but will the yeast even be able to process any more?(whitelabs irish ale yeast) for carbonation?

2 if I leave it in the secondary for 5 months, I am assuming that the yeast will be kaput. If I add fresh yeast into such a high alcohol brew will they just go into a coma?

3 "krausening" sounds like a winner but it sounds hard to calculate. Help!

what i recommend for this, is to use a wine yeast with a higher alcohol tolerance. add it a week or so before you plan on bottling, this way you give it time to eat through any residual sugars before you add the priming sugar for the desired volumes of co2.

don't worry about krausening, try the above method.

That sounds like it would definitely work. I hate to be picky, but my concern there, is that the flavor would be greatly altered. I tasted a little bit and it had a really good flavor with a noticeable alcohol taste that was balanced by the hops and malt (it is an imperial stout) and I would rather not have too much more alcohol. Sorry but I am new to the high gravity scenario. I know that more alcohol will inevitably be produced if I just let it sit for 5 months, but the addition of wine yeast would reduce the malt flavor and increase the alcohol right? It may be par for the course and maybe even true to the style to use the wine yeast, I just have too much time to think about it, so I want to research any options.

I realize your concern, but with the OG in excess of 1.100 and the FG at 1.024 it is defnitely within the 75 attenuation range and safe to bottle.

IMO, the fermentation is complete. This brew is not going to ferment down to 1.010 if that's what you are worried about.

Let it sit for a month in secondary. Add a little less priming sugar if the FG doesn't come down... just to be on the safe side.

The alcohol aroma and flavor and the flat stale beer aroma is common. Nothing new here. Give it time...

Think about it. Beer doesn't really go "stale" overnight. So when you walk into a bar at noon, what are you smelling? It's not stale beer. It's the way beer normally smells (except maybe mixed with a little urine aroma... depending on the establishment). I say it's ok. RDWHAHB.

I know it is safe to bottle, I just want to make sure it will carbonate.

No reason why it shouldn't...

cheezydemon said:

I know it is safe to bottle, I just want to make sure it will carbonate.

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Oops. My bad. Got my threads crossed up.

IMHO, don't worry *too much* about carbonation. Barleywines aren't supposed to be fluffy and foamy. Prime like normal and don't sweat it. But if you are really determined to get a nice foamy head, I suppose I would try a champagne yeast.

thanks for all of the advice.

homebrewer_99 said:

I realize your concern, but with the OG in excess of 1.100 and the FG at 1.024 it is defnitely within the 75 attenuation range and safe to bottle.

IMO, the fermentation is complete. This brew is not going to ferment down to 1.010 if that's what you are worried about.

Click to expand...

Even with wine yeast?

I would think if you added a wine or champagne yeast to this it would ferment further because they tend to ferment out a lot and leave the brew dry, but not with the beer yeast you already used.

Is there such thing as a dry barleywine?

I thought so too. And it is actually an imperial Stout so I did not want it too dry.

Why the need for wine yeast?
Beer yeast should be good to those gravities. Most Trappist ales are bottle conditioned and many have similar gravities. If you are concerned about yeast viability after extended secondary then add some dry beer yeast in the bottling bucket. Rehydrating the yeast before adding it might help some also.
I don't think I would do anything different from your regular ales except repitching. But this advice is coming from a newbie so take it with a grain of salt.
Craig

Have you thought about those carb tab things? I know next to nothing about them but I've seen them mentioned on the forum a few times. If you're really worried, this might be the way to go...

the thing about the yeast is dependent on the beer and the yeast. if you have a very high OG, the yeast can ferment, and even though a yeast has a certain stated alcohol tolerance, that alcohol tolerance can usually be stretched by means of nutrient additions, or staggered fermentable additions, or both.

thing is, if you bulk condition for a while, and there aren't many viable yeast left after many many months, then by itself it won't carbonate, and the problem with using the same beer yeast strain, is that the alcohol may be beyond the alcohol tolerance of the yeast, and you can't use it to ferment any more with. this is where the wine yeast comes in. yes, it will ferment any fermentables that weren't able to be fermented with the beer yeast. yes, it may change the flavor some, but if you want carbonation, this may be your only last resort.

remember, if you add the wine yeast, add it a week before, allowing it to ferment anything the beer yeast couldn't get through, and then when bottling add the proper amount of priming sugar.

if you have kegging equipment, this point becomes moot, as you would be able to force carb and then fill bottles from the keg with a beergun or CPBF. maybe when it comes time to bottle, this will be a more viable option for you. keep it in mind.

Thanks, that is by far the most intelligent answer anyone gave. No offense to anyone who tried to help, but som people were answering some other question entirely! Thanks

Interesting thread since I just brewed an Imperial Stout. The OG was 1.090 though, so I feel as though I'll have less of an issue. I forgot to sparge my grains in a partial mash. :-|

It'll be good either way. It's currently making quite a mess via the blow off tube.

Tony

That depends on how low the yeast go! If the yeast "top out" or ferment as much as they can. If they are maxed out, the addition of priming sugar won't do anything for them. I learned a lot from this thread! If anyone cares, I also posted this question under "all grain brewing" and I got one response that I thought was incredibly snobbish and rude. I would not mind some perspective though, if anyone wants to give me their take.
Maybe that's what I get for setting foot in there! I am new to this site and so far I absolutely love it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't have to like it!

You asked about the wine yeast changing the flavor or drying it out too much. First, wine yeasts tend to be rather neutral; second, they don't deal well with the residual complex malt sugars. Wine yeasts are good at munching through simple sugars at high ABV. So, they will not change the flavor, dry brews out too much or over-carbonate.

[There are always a few people who's opinions over-run their experience or think there is only one way to brew or just plain rude.]

I don't know if my 2 cents will help, but here goes. My first barlewine started at 1.102, and I added crushed raisins to the secondary so the gravity was higher than that, it fermented to ~1.019 with Nottingham. I repitched Nottingham @ ~1.040 to get it to 1.019. At bottling time I added ~75mL of Trappist Yeast slurry from a yeast cake I had just racked beer off. I used the normal priming sugar level despite barleywines usually being carbed less. This was my first AG batch, and I was not terribly experienced, but it turned out very well, and is well carbonated. Good luck, I'm not a big fan of the rough reply you received in the other thread either. I hope you succeed beyond your wildest expectations!

Extremely good info. Thanks! I will not say that I have never opened my mouth when I shouldn't, or been arrogant or cocky, but I always wished afterwards that I had kept my mouth closed.
But moving on, thanks very much for your input, I think that is the way to go. I enjoy the artistry I percieve in bottle conditioning and I think that there will always be a place for the bottle in my arsenal.(even if by chance I should become financially stable enough...Oh, I mean NOT pennyless enough) to buy a kegging system, or the parts and an old kenmore, or whatever. All I know, is that a bottle has 2, .....count 'em, 2 parts. Both are stationary until you move 'em. There is an elegance in that simplicity. The complete brewer in my book would be able to bottle a beer and pull it out in 2 years with perfect carbonation. Somehow just adjusting the co2 with a knob doesn't sound like it takes too much skill.