Belgian Tripel Tripel Karmeliet Clone

12LB Pilsner Malt
2LB Wheat Malt
.25LB Flaked Oats
.25LB Flaked Barley
1LB Sugar

.5oz Sweet Orange Peel (5 Min.)
.5oz Coriander (5 min.)
1 Star Anis (5 min.)

Mash at 151 degrees.

.5oz Styrian Goldings (90 min.)
.5oz Styrian Goldings (45 min.)
1oz Saaz (15 min.)
1oz Saaz (5 min.)

After a lot of research, I put together this clone recipe for Tripel Karmeliet. Here's what we know about this beer: They use three grains - oats, barley and wheat - both malted and raw. Since I don't have a setup for raw I used only malted grains. They use Styrian Goldings for bittering and Saaz for flavor and aroma with a total of 20 IBUs. They also referment in the bottle. I kegged so that is a step I omitted. After brewing this beer I realized three things: 1. My recipe is not citrusy enough. The next time I brew this I'm going to up the sweet orange peel to 1oz or 1.5oz. I think it could also use more coriander, maybe 1oz. 2. It should be dry hopped with Saaz, not much but some, maybe 2oz. 3. With all that being said, my clone is almost exact (see picture). If you love this beer, like me, you should try brewing this recipe and report back with results. My clone is really close, maybe a 7.5 out of a perfect 10. With your help we can achieve a perfect clone. Are you with me?

I'm drinking this now for the first time and am interested in attempting a clone. That said, I have a couple of other beers in the pipeline, so it will be a while for me. Appreciate you sharing your recipe and I've bookmarked it for later.

CorwinGraves said:

I'm drinking this now for the first time and am interested in attempting a clone. That said, I have a couple of other beers in the pipeline, so it will be a while for me. Appreciate you sharing your recipe and I've bookmarked it for later.

Click to expand...

Great! Let me know how it goes when you brew. I'm going to brew it again soon, but also have a few other batches to get to first. I think my recipe with a bit more orange peel will get you an exact clone. It's a great tripel!

I've made a very similar recipe which was a mix of the current ones that I've found.
Primary is just finished and had to taste a bit before bottling
I will of course wait for proper tasting, but seems like I could easily put a bit more of flavors. I used 1.5 oz fresh orange peel and 1/2 oz of ground coriander, so I will probably push it a little bit more next time, but not too much.

thedzo said:

I've made a very similar recipe which was a mix of the current ones that I've found.
Primary is just finished and had to taste a bit before bottling
I will of course wait for proper tasting, but seems like I could easily put a bit more of flavors. I used 1.5 oz fresh orange peel and 1/2 oz of ground coriander, so I will probably push it a little bit more next time, but not too much.

Click to expand...

Please let me know how your batch turns out. I just bought ingredients to brew this again over the weekend. I'm using 2LBs of flaked wheat instead of wheat malt and I'm upping the sweet orange peel to 1.5oz and coriander to 1oz.

Glad i found this thread and that it is not from years ago. I was looking for a recipe and I plan to give this one a try. I will start with base recipe + your afterthoughts. Coupla questions:

1. What size was your starter?
2. Any notes on your water source? (I have to start from distilled so any notes would be helpful)

Yours looks right on target. I will post my experience. Cheers!

Strange_Brew said:

Glad i found this thread and that it is not from years ago. I was looking for a recipe and I plan to give this one a try. I will start with base recipe + your afterthoughts. Coupla questions:

1. What size was your starter?
2. Any notes on your water source? (I have to start from distilled so any notes would be helpful)

Yours looks right on target. I will post my experience. Cheers!

Click to expand...

My starter was 1.5L. I probably underpitched but I have a 2L flask so that's about as big as I get for starters. I think I made it a day or so before pitching.

My water source is Philadelphia water through Aqua. Here's a thread I started a while ago about my water. It includes a pic of the analysis I got from Aqua.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/water-advice-447713/

I'm finally rebrewing this today. I think the flaked wheat instead of wheat malt is going to make a difference. I still have some of my first batch left in the keg and it's really clear and crisp. Tripel Karmeliet tends to be slightly hazy and chewy. I think the flaked wheat will help. Let us know how your brew goes!

A KT clone will likely be my next brew. I had done a bunch of research over the summer on KT then got side-tracked with other projects. I was hoping to harvest yeast to make an exact match. I did get starter from bottle dregs going. It was pretty sulfery so I realized I probably just cultured up whatever lager yeast they use at bottling time. So, my next step was to sample a bunch of other tripels with known yeasts. Like you, I did settle on Achouffe/Ardennes as being the closest, but really none of the samples had the same residual sweetness as KT. I'm not sure if that comes from some unknown (possibly less fermentable) ingredient, or is something truely unique to their strain.

Since you say yours is pretty close, I'll start with that (including the wheat and orange peel mods you recommend). I'm rebuilding my brewery so it's likely going to be Feb before I have any results at all.

I'm going for something close to this on Tuesday. I'm using the WLP530 yeast and leaving off the Flaked Barley and I couldn't get Star Anise. Here's what I've got it put together on Brew Target.

5 gal; OG: 1.072 FG: 1.013; IBU: 20.5; Color: 4.7: Yeast WLP 530

12 lbs Dingemans Belgian Pilsner
2 lbs Wheat malt
.5 Flaked Oats
1 lbs Blonde belgian candy sugar 15m

.5 oz Styrian Goldings 90m
.5 oz Styrian Goldings 45m
1 oz Saaz 15m
1 oz Sweet Orange Peel 15m
1 oz Coriander crushed 15m
1 oz Saaz 5m

WLP 530


Question: How did the hop profile work? I'm worried that it might be a little cloying? I'm guessing that this tasted pretty good at about 20 IBUS.

Where did you look for star anise? Most grocery stores should have that in the spice aisle. If you're in a bigger city you could try an Indian market

Clearwall said:

Where did you look for star anise? Most grocery stores should have that in the spice aisle. If you're in a bigger city you could try an Indian market

Click to expand...

I'm actually going to hit some local grocery stores tomorrow and see. I think a little natural foods co op might have it too.

hokieguy95 said:

I'm going for something close to this on Tuesday. I'm using the WLP530 yeast and leaving off the Flaked Barley and I couldn't get Star Anise. Here's what I've got it put together on Brew Target.

5 gal; OG: 1.072 FG: 1.013; IBU: 20.5; Color: 4.7: Yeast WLP 530

12 lbs Dingemans Belgian Pilsner
2 lbs Wheat malt
.5 Flaked Oats
1 lbs Blonde belgian candy sugar 15m

.5 oz Styrian Goldings 90m
.5 oz Styrian Goldings 45m
1 oz Saaz 15m
1 oz Sweet Orange Peel 15m
1 oz Coriander crushed 15m
1 oz Saaz 5m

WLP 530


Question: How did the hop profile work? I'm worried that it might be a little cloying? I'm guessing that this tasted pretty good at about 20 IBUS.

Click to expand...

The hop profile is spot on. My first batch got way too dry so it wasn't cloying at all. But Tripel Karmeliet is pretty sweet for a tripel. If you have an OG of 1.072 you won't end up with a ton of sweetness but you also won't get to 8.4% ABV like TK without getting too dry.

I got star anise from my home brew store so I can't help you on where else to find it.

Let us know how your brew goes. It'll certainly tell us how important flaked barley and star anise is to the final product. I don't know for sure if star anise is in TK, it was a guess on my part. I do know that it has barley. It'll also be interesting to get your tasting notes to compare the effects WLP530 has on this beer vs. 3522. My second round of this is still in primary but almost ready to transfer to secondary. I'll post my notes then.

I am going to do a partial mash of this. I have been coping AG recipes and matching up the % usage as a way to match the recipe. I recently brewed a Belgian dubbel using 1 lb of amber belgian candi sugar. It is in the bottle now but when I tasted it from secondary to bottle I believe it had some amount of "hot alcohol taste.

My question is what sugar did you use and should I reduce the sugar content to below 1lb. I realize this will not be the "perfect clone" but i think I have a good start to the recipe.

In my recipe sugar makes up 6% of fermentables.

LBS
4 Pilsen DME
2 Flaked wheat
6 Castle Pilsner
0.25 Flaked oats
0.25 Flaked barely
0.75 Sugar (dextrose?)

EDIT: the above recipe is coming in at 1.082. Higher than I want. I hit my gravity almost exactly last time. If i were to back off on an ingredient what would it be.

jimbrew_jr said:

I am going to do a partial mash of this. I have been coping AG recipes and matching up the % usage as a way to match the recipe. I recently brewed a Belgian dubbel using 1 lb of amber belgian candi sugar. It is in the bottle now but when I tasted it from secondary to bottle I believe it had some amount of "hot alcohol taste.

My question is what sugar did you use and should I reduce the sugar content to below 1lb. I realize this will not be the "perfect clone" but i think I have a good start to the recipe.

In my recipe sugar makes up 6% of fermentables.

LBS
4 Pilsen DME
2 Flaked wheat
6 Castle Pilsner
0.25 Flaked oats
0.25 Flaked barely
0.75 Sugar (dextrose?)

EDIT: the above recipe is coming in at 1.082. Higher than I want. I hit my gravity almost exactly last time. If i were to back off on an ingredient what would it be.

Click to expand...

If I had to guess I would suggest lowering the amount of sugar. The first batch of this I made I used table sugar. However, my second batch (which I haven't tasted yet - has been in primary for two weeks), I used clear candi sugar. I've read that in small amounts, like 1 pound, there is no difference in outcome when using table sugar vs. clear candi sugar. The guy at my local home brew shop disagreed and told me that candi sugar doesn't completely ferment out like table sugar does. My first round of this clone ended up way too dry. So I decided to pony up the extra money for candi sugar to see if it makes a difference. I'll have an idea with this experiment on Friday when I take a gravity reading and sample the beer.

Candi sugar won't cause a hot alcohol flavor. High gravity beers, especially Belgians, can have a hot flavor when young. Sounds like your dubbel needs to age.

jimbrew_jr said:

I am going to do a partial mash of this. I have been coping AG recipes and matching up the % usage as a way to match the recipe. I recently brewed a Belgian dubbel using 1 lb of amber belgian candi sugar. It is in the bottle now but when I tasted it from secondary to bottle I believe it had some amount of "hot alcohol taste.

My question is what sugar did you use and should I reduce the sugar content to below 1lb. I realize this will not be the "perfect clone" but i think I have a good start to the recipe.

In my recipe sugar makes up 6% of fermentables.

LBS
4 Pilsen DME
2 Flaked wheat
6 Castle Pilsner
0.25 Flaked oats
0.25 Flaked barely
0.75 Sugar (dextrose?)

EDIT: the above recipe is coming in at 1.082. Higher than I want. I hit my gravity almost exactly last time. If i were to back off on an ingredient what would it be.

Click to expand...

my two cents: use the Belgian candy syrup. There's evidence that suggest there is a difference between regular sugar and the caramylized syrup in taste profiles. "Brew like a monk" has it as an absolute necessity if you want the flavors (rumminess in Dubbel's etc.) that are true to the style. Sucrose will lighten your body and add gravity, but you may miss the mark if those flavors are what you're aiming for.

Either way you go jrfehon has a great recipe and I can't wait to try it.

I took a gravity reading yesterday and sampled the beer. It went from 1.076 to 1.011 so an ABV of 8.6% (TK is 8.2). Like my first attempt, it's going to be too dry. I think it's still a bit light on the fruity/citrus flavor too but it's closer to Tripel Karmeliet than my original clone was. I'm starting to think that 3522 isn't the right yeast. The times I've used it I've experienced to high attenuation. Matching the yeast is going to be the toughest part because Bosteels referments in the bottle. They also lager the beer for 4 weeks, which I don't have the setup to do.

Does anyone have any suggestions on a better yeast or a possible blend of two yeasts for primary? I'm debating between:

Wyeast 1388
WLP 530
WLP 575

jrfehon said:

I took a gravity reading yesterday and sampled the beer. It went from 1.076 to 1.011 so an ABV of 8.6% (TK is 8.2). Like my first attempt, it's going to be too dry. I think it's still a bit light on the fruity/citrus flavor too but it's closer to Tripel Karmeliet than my original clone was. I'm starting to think that 3522 isn't the right yeast. The times I've used it I've experienced to high attenuation. Matching the yeast is going to be the toughest part because Bosteels referments in the bottle. They also lager the beer for 4 weeks, which I don't have the setup to do.

Does anyone have any suggestions on a better yeast or a possible blend of two yeasts for primary? I'm debating between:

Wyeast 1388
WLP 530
WLP 575

Click to expand...

I assume from what you said that you did taste it. Did it taste dry? It's hard to predict how dry a beer would taste based on a FG reading alone. If you have a bottle of TK you don't mind sacrificing, you could also check its actual FG. When I've done something like that before, I put the beer in a e-flask, covered it so it wouldn't evaporate, and put it on a stir plate to quickly evolve off the CO2, then transfer for a measurement.

Hex23 said:

I assume from what you said that you did taste it. Did it taste dry? It's hard to predict how dry a beer would taste based on a FG reading alone. If you have a bottle of TK you don't mind sacrificing, you could also check its actual FG. When I've done something like that before, I put the beer in a e-flask, covered it so it wouldn't evaporate, and put it on a stir plate to quickly evolve off the CO2, then transfer for a measurement.

Click to expand...

I did taste it. It seemed dry but the more accurate test will be when it's cold and carbed. I have a stir plate and TK in my fridge so maybe I'll try your idea. However, the Bosteels website says TK has a FG of 1.016.

Brew day was Friday and I was really pleased with how smoothly everything went. I did learn that my tun doesn't hold heat to well over 90 minutes outside in the winter. Its did just fine during the summer, but during this mash it dropped from 151 to 147 for the duration. I was shooting for 151 and trying not to drop below 149. So, I boiled a liter of water one time during the mash to get it back up to temp, but it still dropped again. I don't have enough beer knowledge to know how that might affect it.

I had to boil a bit longer than 90 minutes because I think I collected almost 9 gallons of wort which was way too much, but I still got 1.074 and I had almost 6 gallons of wort after the boil.

The WLP530 was steady bubbling after only about 12 hours and it smelled wonderful coming out of the airlock. I just love that yeast. Smells very much like banana

This morning it's now turned into the monster it is and is blowing out the blow tube like a beast.

I stuck to the same recipe I posted. So I never found the star anise and left off the barley. I also think the LHBS guy gave me close to .5lbs oats instead of .25

I'll be back to give an update when it finishes and maybe a pic.

hokieguy95 said:

Brew day was Friday and I was really pleased with how smoothly everything went. I did learn that my tun doesn't hold heat to well over 90 minutes outside in the winter. Its did just fine during the summer, but during this mash it dropped from 151 to 147 for the duration. I was shooting for 151 and trying not to drop below 149. So, I boiled a liter of water one time during the mash to get it back up to temp, but it still dropped again. I don't have enough beer knowledge to know how that might affect it.

I had to boil a bit longer than 90 minutes because I think I collected almost 9 gallons of wort which was way too much, but I still got 1.074 and I had almost 6 gallons of wort after the boil.

The WLP530 was steady bubbling after only about 12 hours and it smelled wonderful coming out of the airlock. I just love that yeast. Smells very much like banana

This morning it's now turned into the monster it is and is blowing out the blow tube like a beast.

I stuck to the same recipe I posted. So I never found the star anise and left off the barley. I also think the LHBS guy gave me close to .5lbs oats instead of .25

I'll be back to give an update when it finishes and maybe a pic.

Click to expand...

I'm glad everything went well! I'm really curious to see how WLP 530 does for your beer. I'm pretty certain that Wyeast 3522 isn't the correct yeast for primary. My second batch is dry hopping at the moment.

jrfehon said:

I'm glad everything went well! I'm really curious to see how WLP 530 does for your beer. I'm pretty certain that Wyeast 3522 isn't the correct yeast for primary. My second batch is dry hopping at the moment.

Click to expand...

Question: Did you leave the Coriander and the orange peel in the primary or strain it out? I strained alot of that out.

If you think it's too dry, why not mash higher, say 154-155F?

jrfehon said:

I did taste it. It seemed dry but the more accurate test will be when it's cold and carbed. I have a stir plate and TK in my fridge so maybe I'll try your idea. However, the Bosteels website says TK has a FG of 1.016.

Click to expand...

Ya, 1.011 vs 1.016 is a pretty big difference. It's a little surprising that TK's FG is that high. One thing I love about TK is the light body. I had one on tap a couple of days ago and it was not as sweet as I remembered - could be batch to batch variation or just how my taste buds were tuned that day. It was still very enjoyable.

I was reading about anise and its natural sweetness. So, I'm wondering if that's where it some of the sweetness comes from. I do definitely taste anise every time I drink it. I may experiment with upping the amount when I brew it.

rmyurick said:

If you think it's too dry, why not mash higher, say 154-155F?

Click to expand...

Mashing higher would increase the body, but not necessarily do much for the dryness. The less-fermentable long chain dextrins resulting from a higher mash temp are not as sweet as the more fermentable sugars.

rmyurick said:

If you think it's too dry, why not mash higher, say 154-155F?

Click to expand...

I think the yeast is my main issue. Like I said, I don't think 3522 is the right strain. This time around I got 85% attenuation. My temps were good. I started in the mid 60s and increased a few degrees per day until I got to 76, where it's been for two weeks. So I'm going to try this again with a less attenuating yeast. I also think the flavor profile of 3522 doesn't match. I could be wrong though.

jrfehon said:

I think the yeast is my main issue. Like I said, I don't think 3522 is the right strain. This time around I got 85% attenuation. My temps were good. I started in the mid 60s and increased a few degrees per day until I got to 76, where it's been for two weeks. So I'm going to try this again with a less attenuating yeast. I also think the flavor profile of 3522 doesn't match. I could be wrong though.

Click to expand...

Well this is certainly off the beaten path, but while doing more research, I found this: http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/tripel_karmeliet_-_004.pdf

It suggests WLP720, which is a sweet wine/mead yeast with low attenuation (WL website says < 75%). Might be worth a shot.

Hex23 said:

Well this is certainly off the beaten path, but while doing more research, I found this: http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/tripel_karmeliet_-_004.pdf

It suggests WLP720, which is a sweet wine/mead yeast with low attenuation (WL website says < 75%). Might be worth a shot.

Click to expand...

It's interesting too that they think that all three grains need to be represented in both malted and unmalted forms and no spice additions beyond the hops.

I was able to sample my latest TK clone along side with the original. While this version is closer and very drinkable, it lacks the delicacy of the original. It's amazing how light Tripel Karmeliet is while being around 8% ABV. It's also very floral and citrusy. My current clone is slightly darker and doesn't have that classic Belgian yeast flavor. I'm certain now that 3522 isn't the right yeast. Also, the color of this clone should be under 4 SRM, meaning the amount of grain should be lowered and clear Belgian candi sugar increased. I'm also thinking of dropping the 4oz of flaked barley. I do think the hops are spot on. I dry hopped this time with 2oz of strisslespalt and it definitely got the beer closer to the original. I wish I had better news to report. However, in the end, I feel like I'm getting closer. The yeast is the star of this show and as of now I have it miscast.

Next time try Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit... got that idea from CSI's TK clone recipe (edit - looks like that was also suggested. . WLP 720 seems to be the same)

Mine was transfered the first of the year to secondary. It finished at 1.010.

I did not dry hop which sounds like a mistake based on what results of doing that are showing.

Mine is definately darker than TK too. In the carboy it looks like a 7 or 8 SRM. Don't know what I did to get that dark...maybe the Belgian syrup. I plan to bottle next week and condition for about a month before I test one.

Edit:

Here's the pic of the sample on bottle day (yesterday). Can anyone tell me why so dark? Almost the same ingredients minus the barley with belgian blonde syrup. I did add extra oats.

[/URL][/IMG]

jrfehon said:

Please let me know how your batch turns out. I just bought ingredients to brew this again over the weekend. I'm using 2LBs of flaked wheat instead of wheat malt and I'm upping the sweet orange peel to 1.5oz and coriander to 1oz.

Click to expand...

ah, forgot to report my impressions, but it gave the beer more time to mature,
and it's definitely worth it.
I like to pop up a first bottle after 3 weeks and then every 10 days just to see how the beer evolves.

Next batch, definitely more flavors can be added, I'm thinking, 20g of coriander and 60g of zest (orange/tangerine/grapefruit)

I think the darkness is due to too much pilsner malt (2 SRM) and not enough flaked wheat (1.6 SRM). My next round of this I plan to up the wheat to 4 or 5 lbs, the candi sugar to closer to 2lbs, and reduce the pilsner malt. That will decrease the SRM by over .5 and get the flavor closer to TK. With that being said, my latest batch has aged a bit and is really good. It's not as close to Tripel Karmeliet as I'd like but it's a really solid tripel!

After researching this more, I do think the color issue is from too much pilsner malt and not enough wheat and clear candi sugar. It's also from the caramelizing of the malts. I'm not sure how to eliminate that since I'm using direct heat and not steam. Any thoughts?

Also, it's best to use fresh orange peels and not the sweet orange peel from a local home brew store. I do think 1.5oz of orange peel is the correct amount for a 5.5 gallon batch but the dried stuff won't impart enough flavor.

Did you secondary ferment or just do one long primary fermentation?

Corrumba said:

Did you secondary ferment or just do one long primary fermentation?

Click to expand...

I did four weeks in primary then straight to the keg. My next round of this, which I'm brewing in a week, I plan on doing a secondary.

[/URL][/IMG]

So here is the finished product. I think it needs additional bottle conditioning mature and bring out the complexities over time. Probably a good 3-4 months. I'm trying to go through the LHBS to get some Karmeliet to compare, but it's hard to come by in my region of Virginia. So right now my tasting notes may not be the best thing to listen to for a "clone".

As you can see it's much darker. It turned out very spicy with light citrus and almost some ginger like spice. It tastes remarkably similar to a Saison I made last year. I crushed the coriander, so I'm sure that helped bring out the peppery spicy notes. Of course annise is missing since I didn't add any. I don't think it's too dry. Alcohol was warming and I got somewhere around 8 to 8.3 ABV. WLP530 is a great yeast, I'm just not sure it is the type yeast to bring out the complexities. If/when I do this again, I am going to underpitch start cool and the ramp up slowly to bring out the esters a bit more.

I not getting the head retention i would like, but that has been an issue for me since making the leap to AG. Next time I will up the wheat malt as jrfehon suggested, and cut way back on the oats because I think they actually might hurt head retention.

Not a bad beer, but not my best.

hokieguy95 said:

[/URL][/IMG]

So here is the finished product. I think it needs additional bottle conditioning mature and bring out the complexities over time. Probably a good 3-4 months. I'm trying to go through the LHBS to get some Karmeliet to compare, but it's hard to come by in my region of Virginia. So right now my tasting notes may not be the best thing to listen to for a "clone".

As you can see it's much darker. It turned out very spicy with light citrus and almost some ginger like spice. It tastes remarkably similar to a Saison I made last year. I crushed the coriander, so I'm sure that helped bring out the peppery spicy notes. Of course annise is missing since I didn't add any. I don't think it's too dry. Alcohol was warming and I got somewhere around 8 to 8.3 ABV. WLP530 is a great yeast, I'm just not sure it is the type yeast to bring out the complexities. If/when I do this again, I am going to underpitch start cool and the ramp up slowly to bring out the esters a bit more.

I not getting the head retention i would like, but that has been an issue for me since making the leap to AG. Next time I will up the wheat malt as jrfehon suggested, and cut way back on the oats because I think they actually might hurt head retention.

Not a bad beer, but not my best.

Click to expand...

First, your beer has a great color, although darker than TK. Did you add the candi sugar in rock form? If you did it's important to melt the rock candi in a separate pot before adding to your brew kettle. Otherwise the crystals sit on the bottom of the pot and can caramelize. That might be why your beer is darker than the 4.3SRM it should have been? You can also add the sugar at flame out to reduce the chance of caramelization.

I bet the spiciness is from adding coriander in the last 15 minutes of the boil. I usually add it with 5 minutes left.

Flaked Oats should give you more head retention.

I'm curious to know more why you think WLP530 isn't the right yeast? I'm pretty sure Ardennes isn't right either. I was going to try 530 next or 3787. I know they're virtually the same yeast but maybe it will make a difference with this recipe.

It was the Belgian Candy syrup not rocks. I try as best as possible to stick to what BLAM says when brewing Belgians. I've only used the rocks once andI don't use the rocks unless their is nothing else. And yes I did shut the burner off before adding the syrup to the wort. Although it's possible the bottom was still way too hot. Also, I thought that Oats had oils that contribute to less head retention? I know wheat malt improves it, but I wasn't aware oats helped.

Maybe I spoke a bit out of hand about 530. I wouldn't rule it completely out. It is a wonderful yeast and usually my go to strain for all my Belgians. On second thought, I did ferment this kind of warm and it rose to around and probably above 78. I would give it a try and see what you think. Either way it's not a bad Tripel....

And I think you are spot on about the coriander. I crushed the heck out of it to get more flavor. :rockin: Maybe I'll tone it back and move it to the end of the boil...

When I get my hands on a Karmeleit I will have better reporting....but this thread is a work in progress.

Good updates, I appreciate you pushing forward with this and posting results. I have a couple of hopefully helpful things to point out.

1. Under pitching does not bring out more esters, in fact it does the opposite... yeast that needs to be in a longer growth phase will use up the free compounds that will eventually become esters. If you want lots of esters pitch a big starter. Especially for Belgian beers under pitching is to be avoided because it will suppress the expression of the strain's unique flavor profile, which is often what makes a belgian a belgian. Better to over pitch than under.

2. Above Hex23 pointed out that CSI has a (presumably) good clone recipe on their website that recommends WLP 720 / Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit as the yeast of choice.

Based on how seriously the folks at CSI take their Westvleteren 12 clone, I'd be willing to wager that the TK clone they have is similarly high quality. I have not tried it personally. .. just thought if you are struggling with yeast selection that's a good place to start.

Hanso said:

Good updates, I appreciate you pushing forward with this and posting results. I have a couple of hopefully helpful things to point out.

1. Under pitching does not bring out more esters, in fact it does the opposite... yeast that needs to be in a longer growth phase will use up the free compounds that will eventually become esters. If you want lots of esters pitch a big starter. Especially for Belgian beers under pitching is to be avoided because it will suppress the expression of the strain's unique flavor profile, which is often what makes a belgian a belgian. Better to over pitch than under.

2. Above Hex23 pointed out that CSI has a (presumably) good clone recipe on their website that recommends WLP 720 / Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit as the yeast of choice.

Based on how seriously the folks at CSI take their Westvleteren 12 clone, I'd be willing to wager that the TK clone they have is similarly high quality. I have not tried it personally. .. just thought if you are struggling with yeast selection that's a good place to start.

Click to expand...

I'm surprised that they think WLP720 is the right yeast but it's definitely worth a try. I hadn't looked at that recipe from CSI until now. It's actually really close to my original recipe. However, there are a few flaws based on what I researched about Tripel Karmeliet. First, their OG is 1.081 with a final gravity of 1.012, which would give you a 9% ABV. TK is around 8.3% with a OG of 1.078. They use Styrian for flavoring and Saaz for bittering. It should be the other way around. I actually think the hop schedule I have in my recipe is spot on, it just needs a dry hop addition. My second attempt at this I dry hopped with 2oz of French Strisslespalt and it gave it a nice subtle floral/fruity smell. Also, the CSI recipe has an SRM of 5. Tripel Karmeliet is definitely in the 3.5-4 range. I think 5 is too dark. This is all splitting hairs really if we don't have the correct yeast strain. 530 might be too Belgian abbey tasting for this beer? When I drink it I get a small amount of ester flavor but mostly orange, slight spice, slight floral. It's crisp yet sweet, which might come from an increased addition of sugar than what I have in my recipe while mashing at a higher temperature, 154 or so. Again, I think my original recipe is really close if not 99% correct, just the yeast is wrong.