US-05 how long to finish? Concerns about attenuation

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permo

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Here is a beer that I brewed up on the 30th of December, about 5 days ago. 6.5 gallon batch mashed at 151 pitched 3rd generation US-05 washed yeast starter, active fermentation in 4 hours. I pitched at 73 degrees and have held the fermentation temp of the ferementer at 68 for the last five days. There is still active fermentation going on and the krausen sure has not fell yet, but I was expecting to be nearing FG after 5 days. Well, not even close. 1.030 after five days after pitching a 1 liter active starter. Oddly enough this same exact yeast was washed from an oatmeal stout that went from 1.065 down to 1.014 after 7 days. I was expecting 1.012 out of this beer..especially with the low mash temp.

The way I see it I have a few options:

1. leave things as they are and hope that over the next week or two it ferements out

2. increase the temperature a few degrees and get things going.

3. throw an actively fermenting nottingham starter in there to eat up the fermentables.



OK beer experts...what to do with this one..........




13.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 85.25 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 6.56 %
1.00 lb Red Wheat (3.3 SRM) Grain 6.56 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.64 %
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (60 min) Hops 23.1 IBU
1.00 oz Summit [18.00 %] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 25.4 IBU
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (15 min) Hops 11.5 IBU
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (10 min) Hops 8.4 IBU
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (5 min) Hops 4.6 IBU

Beer Profile
Measured Original Gravity: 1.063 SG
Bitterness: 73.1 IBU
Est Color: 15.1 SRM

looks tasty doesn't it? mmmmmm....marris otter.
 
well, if it's still actively fermenting, let it finish what it's doing before you worry.
 
Leave it go. S-05 has always finished dry for me.

I always leave things go for at least 2 weeks, or until the beer clears significantly.
 
If it took a 1.065 OG stout 7 days to finish to 1.014, why should it only take 5 days for a 1.063 OG beer to reach 1.012? And if it is actively fermenting, with high krausen, why would you need to "get things going"?

RDWHAHB!!!!

Also (sorry I couldn't let this go) how expensive is US-05 where you live that you go through the trouble to reuse it so much?
 
You should not make a starter with dry yeast just bloom it in boiled water that has been brought down to room temp or just sprinkle it on your wort.

Pat
 
You should not make a starter with dry yeast just bloom it in boiled water that has been brought down to room temp or just sprinkle it on your wort.

Pat

I made a starter because I used some washed yeast.

"Also (sorry I couldn't let this go) how expensive is US-05 where you live that you go through the trouble to reuse it so much?"

The problem isn't the expense but the availability. My supply store isn't that reliable for yeast or hops. Also, I really like using washed yeast with a starter, lag times are reduced and pitching rates are increased.
 
If it took a 1.065 OG stout 7 days to finish to 1.014, why should it only take 5 days for a 1.063 OG beer to reach 1.012? And if it is actively fermenting, with high krausen, why would you need to "get things going"?

RDWHAHB!!!!

Also (sorry I couldn't let this go) how expensive is US-05 where you live that you go through the trouble to reuse it so much?

Reusing yeast is a good practice, no matter the cost.
 
I would think that potentially your viable cell count is low, thus the delayed fermentation. Its working just has a lot less yeast than it needs to get the job done. the dryed yeasts have always performed rapidly for me dumping them out of a pouch w/o even rehydrating. I've only heard of people washing/reusing the liquid yeasts due to price, but lately due to the rising prices of dry yeasts, I can understand reusing, I'm guessing maybe you're just not getting enough valid yeast into the starters.
 
I would think that potentially your viable cell count is low, thus the delayed fermentation. Its working just has a lot less yeast than it needs to get the job done. the dryed yeasts have always performed rapidly for me dumping them out of a pouch w/o even rehydrating. I've only heard of people washing/reusing the liquid yeasts due to price, but lately due to the rising prices of dry yeasts, I can understand reusing, I'm guessing maybe you're just not getting enough valid yeast into the starters.

That could very well be the case. I have made a recent efford to use larger jars to create larger washed yeast samples for my starters. I like a good 3/4 inch of yeast on the bottom of a pickle jar. That is a lot of yeast.
 
Here is a beer that I brewed up on the 30th of December, about 5 days ago. 6.5 gallon batch mashed at 151 pitched 3rd generation US-05 washed yeast starter, active fermentation in 4 hours. I pitched at 73 degrees and have held the fermentation temp of the ferementer at 68 for the last five days. There is still active fermentation going on and the krausen sure has not fell yet, but I was expecting to be nearing FG after 5 days. Well, not even close. 1.030 after five days after pitching a 1 liter active starter. Oddly enough this same exact yeast was washed from an oatmeal stout that went from 1.065 down to 1.014 after 7 days. I was expecting 1.012 out of this beer..especially with the low mash temp.

The way I see it I have a few options:

1. leave things as they are and hope that over the next week or two it ferements out

2. increase the temperature a few degrees and get things going.

3. throw an actively fermenting nottingham starter in there to eat up the fermentables.



OK beer experts...what to do with this one..........




13.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 85.25 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 6.56 %
1.00 lb Red Wheat (3.3 SRM) Grain 6.56 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.64 %
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (60 min) Hops 23.1 IBU
1.00 oz Summit [18.00 %] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 25.4 IBU
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (15 min) Hops 11.5 IBU
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (10 min) Hops 8.4 IBU
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (5 min) Hops 4.6 IBU

Beer Profile
Measured Original Gravity: 1.063 SG
Bitterness: 73.1 IBU
Est Color: 15.1 SRM

looks tasty doesn't it? mmmmmm....marris otter.

If I may offer some advise that was given to me which has reduced my brewing stresses considerably.

Do not test your gravity before your beer looks ready to bottle. This may seem completely wrong to you, but it will accomplish some of the following:

1) You will not have to sanitise your wine thief
2) There will beLess risk of oxygen near your beer you are not opening your carboy
3) less work for you
4) Your anxiety level will reduce, and you will just relax more and let your ferment complete on its own.
5) If you are like me, I am certain my hairline has been receding at half the rate as it was when I tested my beer often.

Seriously, unless you are racking to a secondary for a lager, or you are trying to rush your ferment why bother even testing until your beer looks ready to bottle/keg. Just putting it out there! :mug:
 
If I may offer some advise that was given to me which has reduced my brewing stresses considerably.

Do not test your gravity before your beer looks ready to bottle. This may seem completely wrong to you, but it will accomplish some of the following:

1) You will not have to sanitise your wine thief
2) There will beLess risk of oxygen near your beer you are not opening your carboy
3) less work for you
4) Your anxiety level will reduce, and you will just relax more and let your ferment complete on its own.
5) If you are like me, I am certain my hairline has been receding at half the rate as it was when I tested my beer often.

Seriously, unless you are racking to a secondary for a lager, or you are trying to rush your ferment why bother even testing until your beer looks ready to bottle/keg. Just putting it out there! :mug:

+1 - I don't open the fermenter or test gravity until the 10 day mark on ales. They are always finished and ready for continued aging or kegging from that point.
 
Yeah I'm becoming even more lazy, I just leave them in primary for 3-4 weeks, and then keg... done :) I do always test FG, just to make sure I have records etc... but it comes out fine ;)
 
+1 - I don't open the fermenter or test gravity until the 10 day mark on ales. They are always finished and ready for continued aging or kegging from that point.

Always is an awful strong statement there. :D

I have a wit that I brewed on the 27th using 2 jars of captured hoegaarden yeast in a huge starter, and as of this morning it STILL has a huge krausen on it. I'd hardly say it is finished. :rolleyes:

Permo, your beer will take as long as it needs to. The yeast knows what it's doing. You know that many of us pitch our yeast and walk away for a month and come back and bottle.

You don't need to worry. US 05 is a workhorse. I use it for about 95% of my beers and I have NEVER had a problem with it. Just give it some space and it will do what it needs to do.

:mug:
 
I totally agree, I shouldn't even have measured the gravity. Patience for sure is the best practice and I am sure the beer will be just great. Two weeks just seems to take so long! Then I have to dry hop it! It will be worth it.

Hoegaarden....that is some good stuff. SWMBO and my bmc father both like it. I didn't ever think about harvesting the yeast. But now i am going too. :ban:
 
sh*t, i'm paying $4.95 for each pack of US 05! that's local. Not bad compared to liquid yeast, but worth harvesting? yes. if doing a starter with it is ok, when i get equipment to do so, will i? yes. (*note: everyone says don't do a starter for dry yeast, but it doesnt make sense to me. I haven't researched it yet though; that's why i say 'if...it is ok')
 
If I may offer some advise that was given to me which has reduced my brewing stresses considerably.

Do not test your gravity before your beer looks ready to bottle. This may seem completely wrong to you, but it will accomplish some of the following:

1) You will not have to sanitise your wine thief
2) There will beLess risk of oxygen near your beer you are not opening your carboy
3) less work for you
4) Your anxiety level will reduce, and you will just relax more and let your ferment complete on its own.
5) If you are like me, I am certain my hairline has been receding at half the rate as it was when I tested my beer often.

Seriously, unless you are racking to a secondary for a lager, or you are trying to rush your ferment why bother even testing until your beer looks ready to bottle/keg. Just putting it out there! :mug:

I am doing Centennial Blond and just used the 05 for the first time. Low end of the ferment temp scale. 9 days in it is still cloudy and I'm picking up aromas from the air lock so I figure it must still be venting. After the krausen fell I saw bubbles and slime that look like a lot I've seen in many a "is my beer infected" threads. I figured it would have to have been a MASSIVE infection to take hold that soon after high krausen. Still some bubbles on top but they are less and less day. It has been very slow, but I'm in no hurry.

As I am apt to say on the telescope making list. Patience is NOT a virtue. It is a tool.
 
Also (sorry I couldn't let this go) how expensive is US-05 where you live that you go through the trouble to reuse it so much?

$3.50/pack at my LHBS. Sure, cheaper than liquid yeast, but expensive enough to reuse a time or two.

:off:

To Permo, let it sit. It'll finish, it just needs a bit more time.
 
Hoegaarden....that is some good stuff. SWMBO and my bmc father both like it. I didn't ever think about harvesting the yeast. But now i am going too. :ban:

What I did to harvest it was to, over the period of a week drink 2 sixers of it. I left about 1/2 if beer behind with the yeast. After I finished a bottle I flamed and sanitized the lip of the bottle and recapped it with a fresh sanitized cap. Then I stuck it in the fridge until I had my 12, then I made a started, and reversed the process, I sprayed the cap area with sanitizer, uncapped it then flamed the bottle and dumped the dregs in my flask. I think I ended up with 4 washed mason jars full after that.
 
sh*t, i'm paying $4.95 for each pack of US 05! that's local. Not bad compared to liquid yeast, but worth harvesting? yes. if doing a starter with it is ok, when i get equipment to do so, will i? yes. (*note: everyone says don't do a starter for dry yeast, but it doesnt make sense to me. I haven't researched it yet though; that's why i say 'if...it is ok')

Yeah dry yeast has doubled in price the last couple months. It may be smart to wash and harvest our dry yeast. I did it once. Biermuncher harvests all his dry yeasts.

Of course after you wash and harvest it, you do all know, you then treat it like liquid and make starters when you want to use them.
 
Yeah dry yeast has doubled in price the last couple months. It may be smart to wash and harvest our dry yeast. I did it once. Biermuncher harvests all his dry yeasts.

Of course after you wash and harvest it, you do all know, you then treat it like liquid and make starters when you want to use them.

I'm thinking less along the lines of harvesting from the used and just setting aside some of the starter.
 
I tend to brew in clusters. Makes yeast re-use easy, just pitch on the cake. Sometimes, I'll split a cake and do multiple batches.

OP - I'm certain one can get much more uniform fermentations by being obsessive, but 1 week, 4 weeks? Doesn't matter to me, the batch sits for 4-5 weeks regardless.
 
I am doing Centennial Blond and just used the 05 for the first time. Low end of the ferment temp scale. 9 days in it is still cloudy and I'm picking up aromas from the air lock so I figure it must still be venting. After the krausen fell I saw bubbles and slime that look like a lot I've seen in many a "is my beer infected" threads. I figured it would have to have been a MASSIVE infection to take hold that soon after high krausen. Still some bubbles on top but they are less and less day. It has been very slow, but I'm in no hurry.

As I am apt to say on the telescope making list. Patience is NOT a virtue. It is a tool.

Yes, 05 will give you a slimy grungy looking oil slick on top of your krausen that can last for a long time. It is not infection. I was freaked out by my krausen on my first Us-05 ferment also :)

PS I didnt get the telescope making thing, maybe someone else did... I tend to miss jokes more often than most :mug: Its not my brain cell count I swear :drunk:
 
Yes, 05 will give you a slimy grungy looking oil slick on top of your krausen that can last for a long time. It is not infection. I was freaked out by my krausen on my first Us-05 ferment also :)

PS I didnt get the telescope making thing, maybe someone else did... I tend to miss jokes more often than most :mug: Its not my brain cell count I swear :drunk:

Thanks for the info. I tend to be obsessive but I've mellowed. I do not consider patience a virtue. I consider patience to be just another tool to use in completing a goal. Example from my college psych class:

You can teach a monkey to open a lock box that contains a banana. If you don't feed the monkey for several days and give him the lock box, he will throw it around, smack on it, pry on it, do everything but use the combination to open the lock box. Now, feed the monkey and give him back the lock box. The monkey can now open the lock box. Turns out he didn't forget the combination, he just got flustered when he was hungry and kept trying things over and over that didn't work even though he still KNEW what he had to do. I don't want to tell you how many times I've found myself in a situation and realized I was that monkey. :rolleyes:

Anyhow, this sounds like the perfect time to use banana man. :ban:
 
Thanks for the info. I tend to be obsessive but I've mellowed. I do not consider patience a virtue. I consider patience to be just another tool to use in completing a goal. Example from my college psych class:

You can teach a monkey to open a lock box that contains a banana. If you don't feed the monkey for several days and give him the lock box, he will throw it around, smack on it, pry on it, do everything but use the combination to open the lock box. Now, feed the monkey and give him back the lock box. The monkey can now open the lock box. Turns out he didn't forget the combination, he just got flustered when he was hungry and kept trying things over and over that didn't work even though he still KNEW what he had to do. I don't want to tell you how many times I've found myself in a situation and realized I was that monkey. :rolleyes:

Anyhow, this sounds like the perfect time to use banana man. :ban:

Lol! Well, I actually got really obsessive when I got my own place, car, etc... felt I had too much to 'Look After'... but I have mellowed close to where I was when I was a teenager (my nickname used to be Shaggy-J, so you get where I am going with that).

Obsessive is a good thing I think as long as you can limit your stress... if it starts to stress you then you got a problem and you need to start pacing yourself... at least, for me anyway.

Good on ya, sounds like it will be a good beer!
 
The recipe is very interesting. I am shooting for something like a cross between windmer brrr and summit horizon red ale. I think it is going to be a nice brew.. I have never used summit hops before. I have a pound so I figured I better get rolling and get them used up.
 
January 4th 1.030, January 7th 1.025. It looks like it is taking the gravity down slowly but surely. There is a small layer of foam, almost like beer head on top the beer right now. With pretty nice airlock activity. It doesn't seem like a traditional full krausen, but there is definetly a layer of suds on the top. Never seen that before. It looks like this beer is going to take a while. Very wierd, I pitched an active starter and have been 68-70 degrees the entire time.
 
Definitely seems slow. Every time I've used that yeast it's finished in <10 days. Even for big beers.

I know, it's been 9 days and I am at 1.025. I am a little concerned that i am going to end up with underattenuated beer. Not sure what to do at this point other than wait. 1.020 Amber IPA Hybrid doesn't sound so tasty to me. 1.012-1.015...now we would be cookin.

I have a nice big slurry of recently washed nottingham, I am considering adding this soon to get things going. 9 days is quite a while to drop less than 4 points with 05 at 68-70 degrees, even if I underpitched.
 
I know, it's been 9 days and I am at 1.025. I am a little concerned that i am going to end up with underattenuated beer. Not sure what to do at this point other than wait. 1.020 Amber IPA Hybrid doesn't sound so tasty to me. 1.012-1.015...now we would be cookin.

I have a nice big slurry of recently washed nottingham, I am considering adding this soon to get things going. 9 days is quite a while to drop less than 4 points with 05 at 68-70 degrees, even if I underpitched.

Personally I have never had an issue with that yeast, but since its not finished you will probably not know if its done or if the yeast died for whatever reason (a common reason is just not a very viable batch which can happen with dry yeasts occasionally). Wait until day 20, then test it. If its not done, there is a great post somewhere here on stuck fermentation.From what I remember, its actually better to wake up the yeast that's already in there than to try re-pitching.
 
Bump! Got an update for us permo?

After a total of 22 days on the primary yeast cake the final gravity is 1.020. I raised the temp, agitated the yeast, aerated and even added more yeast. The only thing that I can think of is that I took incorrect readings during my mash and mashed too high.

I bottled it today, the sample I tasted was quite nice tasting so I have some hope for this one, sometimes the beers that you expect the least out of suprise you and become some of your best.

I think it is going to taste like an overhopped strongish scotch ale by the time its all said and done....maybe I invented a delicious new style.
 
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