going electric

I have the equipment to brew two 10 gallon batches at the same time. Each set up is 3 keggles. Currently I use propane burners but would like to add some heating elements and build a control box.

Currently, I am in the process of building a control box and adding heating elements to the HLT and the Boilers. I plan on having 4 PIDs all in one control box. I bought a 50 Amp Spa panel and plan on running about 75 feet of cable to my set up on the drive way.

I have a couple of questions. Can I power 2 5500W elements at the same time from one 220V power source after the 50A spa panal? Should have I bought the 60A? 2 March pumps would be running the circulation.

Also is it better to put the spa panel next to the dryer and run the 75 foot cable to the control box. Or put the sap panel nearer to the control box. Cheers

Some simple math says that 5500/220=25Amps. To run both simultaneously will be cutting it too close. You may want to downgrade one of the elements (probably the HLT) in order to stay under 50 amps. You'll also want some leeway to run pumps, lights, disco ball, etc.

Sound like a very interesting build. I'll keep my eye on it!

Also, it's a good idea to review this in the electric brewing area: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/electrical-primer-brewers-145019/

Most of your questions are answered there.

Good luck!

I, too, am finishing up on my system to do two batches at once. I decided to go 60amps, mainly because it is easy and inexpensive for me to get electrical parts. I also wanted to have enough over-current protection for running the pumps, elements, and misc components.

You will be close to 50 amps, if you are running everything at once.
- heating elements @ ~23amps each
- pumps @ ~ 2 amps
- misc @ ~ 1 amp

The cost, as you know, is quite substantial going from 50 to 60 amps. I also installed 60amp relay, which Ohio Ed sold me. Attached below is photos from 6 months ago. I'll try and update the photo that shows the 60amp plug installed with the relay.

DrivewayBeer said:

I have a couple of questions. Can I power 2 5500W elements at the same time from one 220V power source after the 50A spa panal? Should have I bought the 60A? 2 March pumps would be running the circulation.

Also is it better to put the spa panel next to the dryer and run the 75 foot cable to the control box. Or put the sap panel nearer to the control box. Cheers

Click to expand...

I run two 4500W elements in 30 gallon pots and they work great, that brings it down to about 38 amps for both.

I would mount the spa panel on the wall and run your cord to it.

DrivewayBeer said:

Also is it better to put the spa panel next to the dryer and run the 75 foot cable to the control box. Or put the sap panel nearer to the control box. Cheers

Click to expand...

If you are going to use 50amps, watch the voltage drop of going that distance. You are looking at using 6 gage SO cord or line to that panel, depending upon the location (would have to check it out).

I have a 20' SO cord whip to connect to the panel. I ran mine off a 60amp GFCI breaker in the panel. Hell, I live close by, you can always come over and check it out.

If I did exchange the Spa Panel for a 60 amp what other parts would be different? I guess I would need a different relay. I am not sure where I would go about getting a 60amp relay and I don't know Ohio Ed. Thanks

Depending upon your setup, you'll need:
- 60amp GFCI breaker
- 6 gage or beefier wire (I went with a 6-3 SO cord that I store in a NEMA 4X box)
- Pin/sleave connector for 60amps (my Crause Hinds is pictured above)
- 60amp, 120V relay. However, this can be configured differently.

Check out this thread on relay options:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/60amp-power-relay-209879/

Also, D&F Liquidators is MECCA for us Sparky's in the Bay area. They are located in Hayward and chock-A-block with tons of electrical stuff. It is an electrical supply/liquidator so you can get everything there at a significantly reduced cost.

Here's an 80A DPDT relay on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/220VAC-80A-DPDT-Power-Relay-Motor-Control-Screw-Mount-/270773293933?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0b58936d

$25 shipped (China)

Hi. Thanks for the info.

@Sparky= do you have a wiring diagram for your set up? it looks to be very similar to what I want to do. We have the same PIDs etc... What is the benefit that a 60A relay provides over just running 2 parallel 30A relays. I am still trying to get my mind around all this. Thanks for the tip on suppliers too. Do you have a good source for the 6/3 wire? what does SO stand for? thanks

Here is the SOW cord. I picked mine up from D&F Liquidators in Hayward, CA.
You should be able to pick it up at any electrical supply shop in the area, so for you that would be Maltby or CED (CES) in Petaluma, Santa Rosa, or San Rafael.
This is the 6-3 SOW cord and they will cut it by the foot.

And, here is the panel inside & outside. Note that it is not finished wiring. I have no schematic, but it gives you a good idea what is going on.

Yes, for you mountain bikers out there, that is a Pivot Mach 429

Maybe this will help http://www.pinsandsockets.nl/awg info/awg info.html

Sparky said:

And, here is the panel inside & outside. Note that it is not finished wiring. I have no schematic, but it gives you a good idea what is going on.

Yes, for you mountain bikers out there, that is a Pivot Mach 429

Click to expand...

Sparky, looks really nice. Do you have a parts list and possible sources? Thanks!

copyright1997 said:

Sparky, looks really nice. Do you have a parts list and possible sources? Thanks!

Click to expand...

Like most of the designs on this site, mine is part of all out there. But for the components, go to Kal's site at theelectricbrewery.com to see the part details.
I like Kal's precision and good selection of components.

My panel is similar to Kal's, but is capable of back-to-back batches (ie - boil one batch while the other is in the mash). And, I added other stuff too, with the clock and multiple timers and alarms + 60amps.

I am sorry I do not have a parts list or schematic. I have some back-of-napkin sketches and wiring diagrams, but the usual "late night thinking."

Sparky said:

Like most of the designs on this site, mine is part of all out there. But for the components, go to Kal's site at theelectricbrewery.com to see the part details.
I like Kal's precision and good selection of components.

My panel is similar to Kal's, but is capable of back-to-back batches (ie - boil one batch while the other is in the mash). And, I added other stuff too, with the clock and multiple timers and alarms + 60amps.

I am sorry I do not have a parts list or schematic. I have some back-of-napkin sketches and wiring diagrams, but the usual "late night thinking."

Click to expand...

Sorry I wasn't clear. I'm specifically interested in some of the parts you are using that aren't on Kal's site,like the clock and timers.

Sorry, here is the digital clock info:
For those that are looking to add a clock display to their project:
The Velleman LED Clock Display
http://www.vellemanusa.com/us/enu/product/view/?id=525152
Cost is US$63
Module (O.D.) dimensions: 67 X 40.5 mm; depth is 42 mm

Can also have a battery backup

Ok I am going to get the 60A spa panel. from there can I run two 30A contactors or power relays in parallel for each leg? Have each controlled by separate key switches? Wouldn't that omit the need for the 60 amp DPDT (or DPST), 240V, with 120V coil?

DrivewayBeer said:

Ok I am going to get the 60A spa panel. from there can I run two 30A contactors or power relays in parallel for each leg? Have each controlled by separate key switches? Wouldn't that omit the need for the 60 amp DPDT (or DPST), 240V, with 120V coil?

Click to expand...

Check out Cidah's build, where (in the end) he built two parallel 30AMP configs in the same control panel: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/electric-burners-any-builders-out-there-228720/index51.html

I think running 2 30A configurations is the way to go here for me. I read Cheda's thread and I am still not sure how to do it.

Could I still use the 60A spa panel and then split the lines?

DrivewayBeer said:

I think running 2 30A configurations is the way to go here for me. I read Cheda's thread and I am still not sure how to do it.

Could I still use the 60A spa panel and then split the lines?

Click to expand...

I thought the hd spa panel is 50 amp 240vAC max? If you have 60 amp service, you could do 2 30-amp setups in your control panel.

How do I determine how many amp service I have?

well Haven't been on HBT in a while!

I determined that I have 200 amp service. I still am trying to decide between using a 60amp line to power my two 5500 Watt elements at once or if I should divide it into two 30 amp lines. Any advise? is there another thread that shows anyone else running 2 30 amp lines?

I already bought a 60 spa GFIC so I am unsure if I could still use that with the 2 30 amp lines...

I ran 2 50 amp lines from a 100amp sub in my detached garage.