New car buying tips?

Due to circumstances I think I'll need to take the fiance to buy a new car. I no longer wish to work on her car when it breaks (too much frustration) so whether I like the idea or not, a brand new car is likely.

I've read on and on through google for pointers and have a good idea how to approach it to get the best deal, but nothing beats what personal experience can give me. Having never bought a new car at the dealer, what are your real world tips?

Thanks!

I've bought lots of them. IMO just walk in and ask for invoice and no dealer fees. When they say no, leave your card and walk. They REALLY don't want you to walk. I've had them come after me in the parking lot before.

The dealer fees can be crazy. Transportation fees of $500+. They might not even mention these until the paperwork is getting done. By then they've got you on the hook. Just be prepared to walk; in fact, practice this a few times.

Make sure your fiance is on the same page.

Don't trade tinting, undercoating, or pin stripes for money discounts. IMO the tinting sucks, the undercoating isn't necessary any more. Ford used to sell a lifetime wax job for $500. Bwah!

Better dealers (for better cars) will let you take the car for a day or two. I bought an infinity this way. It's a great way to figure out if it's the car for you. Just ask them for this.

I am a huge fan of the service offered at http://fightingchance.com. For $40, you get all the research and invoice pricing of the make and model you are looking for, along with an approach to call the dealer's GMs to negotiate a price before you arrive. I bought my wife a new 4-Runner for about $1000 below invoice.

Do your research, know exactly what you want as far as options and trim levels. Know the invoice cost before you go, DON'T make an impulse buy. Play multiple dealers against each other to get the best price. If they don't have what you want on the lot, they can order it for you, no extra cost! So get exactly what you want, and tell them dealer x said they would sell it for this, then go to dealer x and say dealer y said this, beat it. Keep continuing until one can't or wont beat the other. May take you weeks, but will save you 2-5,000$ at least!
When you start negotiating price, start at edmunds invoice, not sticker price. Walk away if a salesman starts to give you crap, tell him to shove it and leave. When you have the power to walk, you are in charge.

As odd as it sounds what ever you do don't give them your keys to what ever you drive into the lot with. I've had one dealership offer to wash my current vehicle while we talked to the salesperson. I was skeptical, but a free car wash is a free car wash.

However when you want to walk away because they won't come down to the price you want to pay... you don't have any keys.

This all kind of validates what I've read. Good to know. I just need to make sure my fiance knows this isn't going to be a, walk into the first dealer and buy a car, kind of thing. She will need to wear her patient pants that day.

I've bought many cars from private sellers for myself, and plan to continue. But negotiating with a dealer will be a fun endeavor.

And believe it or not, IXVolt, I've heard that before. We'll be driving my car into the lot, so they won't be touching it.

TheMan said:

This all kind of validates what I've read. Good to know. I just need to make sure my fiance knows this isn't going to be a, walk into the first dealer and buy a car, kind of thing. She will need to wear her patient pants that day.

I've bought many cars from private sellers for myself, and plan to continue. But negotiating with a dealer will be a fun endeavor.

And believe it or not, IXVolt, I've heard that before. We'll be driving my car into the lot, so they won't be touching it.

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If you want a really good deal, make sure she's not wearing ANY pants, leave the patient pants at home...

good thinking. Short skirt it is!

I just do the research all online, find the car I want at a price that is right, walk in, tell the salesman I want that one. And then drive it home. If I need to be talking and haggling it down, either I don't want it bad enough, or I am looking at cars out of my budget range (typically the later). You need to remember, while you want a deal, the salesman's livelihood is completely based upon his selling cars, and his selling cars for a price he can keep his job with.

With my wife's car we looked at several makes, once she settled on a make and model, we found a dealer where we could also get service, Price was in our range (Actually just out of as we decided last minute we wanted the model with EVERY option available, so had to add $2,000, big deal) Salesman was also a past homebrewer.

Forgot. When I have a trade I will always have a price in mind, THIS PRICE. then do a give and take. Say you have a trade you value at $21,000, when they come back at $20,500, it's a mute point to haggle over the $500. You can, but the point is less. Now if the come back at $18,000. Then you can argue. But also be sure you are reasonable in your amount. I traded a 2500 Dodge 4x4 Diesel the NADA and KBB valued at $24,000. However, I knew we had rolled it and it had been repaired (about the same amount of $$ in damage), so I when they offered $21,500, I was happy with that.

landshark said:

I just do the research all online, find the car I want at a price that is right, walk in, tell the salesman I want that one. And then drive it home. If I need to be talking and haggling it down, either I don't want it bad enough, or I am looking at cars out of my budget range (typically the later). You need to remember, while you want a deal, the salesman's livelihood is completely based upon his selling cars, and his selling cars for a price he can keep his job with.

With my wife's car we looked at several makes, once she settled on a make and model, we found a dealer where we could also get service, Price was in our range (Actually just out of as we decided last minute we wanted the model with EVERY option available, so had to add $2,000, big deal) Salesman was also a past homebrewer.

Forgot. When I have a trade I will always have a price in mind, THIS PRICE. then do a give and take. Say you have a trade you value at $21,000, when they come back at $20,500, it's a mute point to haggle over the $500. You can, but the point is less. Now if the come back at $18,000. Then you can argue. But also be sure you are reasonable in your amount. I traded a 2500 Dodge 4x4 Diesel the NADA and KBB valued at $24,000. However, I knew we had rolled it and it had been repaired (about the same amount of $$ in damage), so I when they offered $21,500, I was happy with that.

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I have to disagree. Sure a salesman's livelihood depends on getting the most he can, but my livelihood depends on getting the lowest price I can. Between worrying about him and me, I'll choose me. And if you are going into a dealer without negotiation, you are potentially paying thousands more than you actually need to. Not to mention the dealers price includes all sorts of non-essential items and things to just get more from you. Why pay for things you don't need?

I've never purchased from a dealer before but I plan to have her narrow things down to a few cars within our budget. Then we will go in and negotiate on the chosen car. I plan to get the car for the price I want to pay.

Line up financing with your own bank or better yet, credit union. Decide how much you want to spend on a car. Don't tell them about your financing until you've agreed on a price. Drive all the cars in the lot. Don't get any extended warranty. I never take the car the day I see it, no matter how much I like it.
I like looking at cars, but the sales people can be horrible.

landshark said:

I just do the research all online, find the car I want at a price that is right, walk in, tell the salesman I want that one. And then drive it home. If I need to be talking and haggling it down, either I don't want it bad enough, or I am looking at cars out of my budget range (typically the later). You need to remember, while you want a deal, the salesman's livelihood is completely based upon his selling cars, and his selling cars for a price he can keep his job with.

With my wife's car we looked at several makes, once she settled on a make and model, we found a dealer where we could also get service, Price was in our range (Actually just out of as we decided last minute we wanted the model with EVERY option available, so had to add $2,000, big deal) Salesman was also a past homebrewer.

Forgot. When I have a trade I will always have a price in mind, THIS PRICE. then do a give and take. Say you have a trade you value at $21,000, when they come back at $20,500, it's a mute point to haggle over the $500. You can, but the point is less. Now if the come back at $18,000. Then you can argue. But also be sure you are reasonable in your amount. I traded a 2500 Dodge 4x4 Diesel the NADA and KBB valued at $24,000. However, I knew we had rolled it and it had been repaired (about the same amount of $$ in damage), so I when they offered $21,500, I was happy with that.

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You are a salesman's dream. He does no effort for the sale and you way over pay. NEVER pay sticker price!! They have such a markup and they also get holdbacks from the manufacturer if they sell a certain quota, and they pay quite a bit less than what they say they do. They will NOT sell a car for a loss, just get it down as far as you can, they will cry mercy when they have to. And still make a profit! Just not as much. Trust me, I went through this a year ago when I bought my jeep, and I had a jeep salesman on a forum helping me with the ends and outs of how it works. It did give me a leg up knowing some inside info.

moscoeb said:

You are a salesman's dream. He does no effort for the sale and you way over pay. NEVER pay sticker price!! They have such a markup and they also get holdbacks from the manufacturer if they sell a certain quota, and they pay quite a bit less than what they say they do. They will NOT sell a car for a loss, just get it down as far as you can, they will cry mercy when they have to. And still make a profit! Just not as much. Trust me, I went through this a year ago when I bought my jeep, and I had a jeep salesman on a forum helping me with the ends and outs of how it works. It did give me a leg up knowing some inside info.

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I may be his dream, But I look at cars I want and at prices I can afford and what I am willing to spend I don't get bent out of shape over $2000 over the coarse of 4-5 year loan. I've bought 3 cars from dealers in the last 4 years, 2 of those were brand new. I do however look at all the dealers around town and look for what I want. If they have what I want and the price I am willing to pay for that. I get it. With new vehicles most of the prices are all in the same ballpark if you have it selected down to model and options.

Another thing I look at when buying a vehicle is service department. Are they fair and honest. I bought my 535xi from a Chevy dealer just on the reason their service department had been awesome with my wife's old Cavalier. And they had what I was wanting on their used car lot. I bought the extended warranty through them so if any issues came up, just bring it to them and problem is fixed and they deal w/ the local BMW dealer, who I don't like. If you don't like the dealer, that is a reason to walk. But people being bent out of shape over $2,000 when spending $40,000+ just doesn't make sense to me.

Also, as stated by SZ, having a loan lined up is an excellent idea and is highly recommended. However, if for some reason you cannot get financed, typically the dealers will have access to loan companies who are more willing to lend to anyone.

Another thing to consider, depending how may miles she drives in a year. Is leasing the car. Depends on how many miles she drives though.

I've had the same car since '03 so I don't know much about buying a car, but my neighbor told me about his experience...

He was able to talk with multiple dealerships over email instead of driving to the lots and talking directly with them. I think he went to the car lots in the first place to meet a salesperson, but after that he was able to do things at home on his computer. There's a lot less pressure this way, you can easily research on the internet, and you can get things in writing before you make the decision. He would email one dealer and say "I can get the car for X, what can you do?" They would go lower and he would email the other dealer until he got a good deal.

I am brutal with salespeople but I walk away happy every time. I can't disagree with landshark more but I need people like him out there paying sticker so the salesperson will sell to me at a loss. I've only ever bought used because there's a lot more flexibility in price and negotiation and I believe a good used car is better value in many cases than a new car (but not always). New cars only have wiggle room in the fees and mark up (which there is a lot) but there's still room to negotiate and play dealerships against each other.

Here's a few pointers:

Research as much as you can. Thanks to the interwebz you have access to an incredible amount of information. Research the car invoice price (do not believe you have to pay more than invoice, there is still profit made in selling at or below invoice) but also research the dealership. Look on those review sites like yelp. If there's a lot of reviews saying the dealership was shady, stay away. That means you're probably not getting honest negotiation out of them. Don't even waste your time with them. If the sales people are shady it very likely goes to the top and is encouraged. There's crafty sales technique and there's dishonesty.

Don't let them take anything from you until you are ready to sign a contract. Don't let them have the keys to your car unless you are going with the keys. Definitely do not let them hold your license or make a copy of it. Often times dealers will use it to run your credit (illegally) or at a minimum keep the copy to send you junk mail. Legally you do not have to turn your license over to them. After all, if you're going to drive a car, why wouldn't you need your license? Also, do not let them run a credit report while you test drive. Why let them run the report before you know you're even buying from them?

Come to the dealership with a prepared, approved finance offer. So do some research around the intertubes for good deals. Check local banks and credit unions. Get approved for a deal and know how to get it closed right away. Some banks will give you a check, others will have processes for the dealership to fix. However, don't turn away a good deal from the dealership. Sometimes they will offer you a better deal, especially if you have great credit.

Don't negotiate the price based on a monthly payment. The dealership will just figure out how to max out your monthly payment with mark ups, fees and interest. It's almost impossible to negotiate once they have showed you they are meeting your payment requirements. Instead, negotiate total price with everything included. Since you know you have your financing set up, you know what monthly payments you are approved for and how much car you can afford within it.

Be mysterious about your financing options. They will ask you if you're going to finance with them. Tell them you aren't sure. The dealership gets a cut of the fees and/or interest to sell you a loan, so they can give a little on price if they are making it up in finance charges. So if you get them to negotiate with the idea they are financing you then you can get more flexibility out of them. By being mysterious you can also sometimes force them to give you a superior financing offer. If their offer sucks then you can always say you decided to finance with your bank.

Don't be afraid to use your credit card to finance a down payment, if you have to put one down. The reason you might do this is for the cash back option. A $2000 down payment on your card at 1% cash back is a nice $20 batch of homebrew. Let the dealership buy you a batch of homebrew. If you have the card and the ability to do it, pay with the card instead of check or cash. You can also split and put some on a card and some by check or cash. Dealerships like to say they can only put so much on a credit card but their service agreement with visa and mastercard says they must accept all valid charges regardless of the amount. The reason why they refuse to let you charge more is because it costs them more. So you can threaten to walk over it, if you want, and get your way. You could tell them to run the card several times to get to the full amount if they are just positive they can't go higher.

Another fun tactic during price negotiations is to turn their useless concessions against them. When they offer to throw in options for free, ask how much it would cost to have the option installed at a later date. Then tell them to keep the option and deduct that amount off the price, since they already agreed to give you a concession of that value. I usually wait to spring it on them until the end when I think we've reached a middle ground, just to get that last chip off the price.

Importantly, do not be afraid to walk. Ever. No matter how far in the process you go.

Do some research of comparable vehicles and how much they are selling for in your area. In addition to playing off dealerships of the same manufacturer against each other, you can also play off similar cars that sell for less. If you're buying an accord, what does a camry cost? What does a similar ford or chevy run for? hyundai? You probably can't get prices down on a BMW by saying a similar kia is much cheaper but cars in the similar class definitely play against each other. Get offers on a ford and take it to a chevy dealership. You can just up a little in quality. Take that accord you're after. Go find invoice on a taurus or whatever ford sells in the same market as an accord. Look at the difference in local sticker prices between the ford and accord. Take the difference and add it to the ford invoice. Is it more or less than the accord invoice? If it's less or equal, then go to the honda dealership and point out that ford dealership X gave you an offer at invoice but you would rather buy a honda and you know the honda sells for so much more so you could buy the honda at ford's offer plus the difference in sticker. Any argument that the honda is a superior car is justified by the difference you've already added to ford's alleged offer.

Also, do not be afraid to deal with the internet sales manager through email rather than the salespeople in person.

landshark said:

I may be his dream, But I look at cars I want and at prices I can afford and what I am willing to spend I don't get bent out of shape over $2000 over the coarse of 4-5 year loan. I've bought 3 cars from dealers in the last 4 years, 2 of those were brand new. I do however look at all the dealers around town and look for what I want. If they have what I want and the price I am willing to pay for that. I get it. With new vehicles most of the prices are all in the same ballpark if you have it selected down to model and options.

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You don't see how a 5% reduction in price (plus the interest on that $2,000) is worth a little research and negotiation?

I could care less if the dealership doesn't make money on the sale. I let them worry about it. I assume they aren't going to do business that puts them out of business.

Just remember it's SO easy to walk away! Once you are willing to do that over a car prices, you have all the control.

Added costs to the final contract? No thanks.

Remember that they might give you a good deal on trade-in, but they are making it up in price... Or rate... Or term... Dealers have all several methods of making the numbers work in their favor. A lot of people don't figure out that getting a guaranteed trade-in price only makes one of the other factors go up. The dealers aren't actually advertising the trade-in value because they care so much about you. They know that it gets people on their lot to begin with, then they can (often) have their with the pricing to make the customer buy the car.

Don't be afraid to haggle any of the rate, term, price, trade. Best is to get financing outside and just haggle price.

And if anyone refuses to return my keys, I have a cell phone which I can use to call the police to get them back. At that point they probably understand that I'm not buying a car from them and they can give up. There are WAY too many dealerships in driving distance, even in my neck of the woods, for me to want to do business with jerks like that.

Dealers today understand that there are many ways for customers to get the pricing on cars. Not like the good old days when they could tell you anything they wanted. Go get that information and use it to your advantage. For me, I buy used cars and that's even riskier, because you never know WHAT the heck has happened to that car and you are rolling the dice on repairs. But that's the financial situation I'm in. I can fix most things for less than someone who has to have it done by a mechanic.

definitely do not let them do a credit check on you while you are test driving a vehicle. I had a dealership do this to me once when I was driving without my permission. I did not like the salesman's attitude so I walked away. next weekend I was at a different dealership at apply for financing on another vehicle that cost 5000 dollars less , but got turned down by the bank that had apparently approved me the week earlier. they told me that every time you have a credit check done whether you are approved for the financing or not it is a negative mark on your credit rating. so because they did that credit report without my permission my credit rating went down just enough to get me declined

Goofynewfie said:

definitely do not let them do a credit check on you while you are test driving a vehicle. I had a dealership do this to me once when I was driving without my permission. I was approved for financing on the vehicle but I did not like the salesman's attitude so I walked away. next weekend I was at a different dealership at apply for financing on another vehicle that cost 5000 dollars less , but got turned down by the bank that had approved me the week earlier. they told me that every time you have a credit check done whether you are approved for the financing or not it is a negative mark on your credit rating. so because they did that credit report without my permission my credit rating went down just enough to get me declined

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while its true you get a mark for every hard inquiry on our report, it's not THAT much of a hit.

and creditors generally take into account that a person is going to be shopping around for a loan and so there are naturally will be a lot of recent hard inquires. you must have been right on the edge in terms of score.

but if they're pulling hard inquires on you without your authorization, that's BS

ReverseApacheMaster said:

You don't see how a 5% reduction in price (plus the interest on that $2,000) is worth a little research and negotiation?

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Never worried about it. And with the low interest rates that dealers give, it's typically mute anyways. However, like I said I'll research vehicles for months when I know I'm going to buy, and will typically find what I want at the lowest cost via online searching. Then I buy based off what I want and what I want to pay. If I know a dealer is overpriced on their cars in their lot. I don't even step foot on their lot.

However, I will pay an extra 500 to 1000 just if the dealer is a local dealer that I will be able to trust 2 years down the road when my vehicle needs serviced.

The deal is, be sure to feel comfortable at the dealer. If the dealer acts like a sleeze. he is a sleeze.

Homercidal said:

I could care less if the dealership doesn't make money on the sale. I let them worry about it. I assume they aren't going to do business that puts them out of business.

Just remember it's SO easy to walk away! Once you are willing to do that over a car prices, you have all the control.

Added costs to the final contract? No thanks.

Remember that they might give you a good deal on trade-in, but they are making it up in price... Or rate... Or term... Dealers have all several methods of making the numbers work in their favor. A lot of people don't figure out that getting a guaranteed trade-in price only makes one of the other factors go up. The dealers aren't actually advertising the trade-in value because they care so much about you. They know that it gets people on their lot to begin with, then they can (often) have their with the pricing to make the customer buy the car.

Don't be afraid to haggle any of the rate, term, price, trade. Best is to get financing outside and just haggle price.

And if anyone refuses to return my keys, I have a cell phone which I can use to call the police to get them back. At that point they probably understand that I'm not buying a car from them and they can give up. There are WAY too many dealerships in driving distance, even in my neck of the woods, for me to want to do business with jerks like that.

Dealers today understand that there are many ways for customers to get the pricing on cars. Not like the good old days when they could tell you anything they wanted. Go get that information and use it to your advantage. For me, I buy used cars and that's even riskier, because you never know WHAT the heck has happened to that car and you are rolling the dice on repairs. But that's the financial situation I'm in. I can fix most things for less than someone who has to have it done by a mechanic.

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This^

Homercidal said:

For me, I buy used cars and that's even riskier, because you never know WHAT the heck has happened to that car and you are rolling the dice on repairs. But that's the financial situation I'm in. I can fix most things for less than someone who has to have it done by a mechanic.

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I do the same. Had several cars, all privately purchased for cash. And that is my preferred method. I can fix just about anything that goes wrong. But, this is for the woman. I want to save her money and fix her car when it breaks, but she just gets so impatient if it's something I need to research a little before fixing. So, new or slightly used is the best for her. And she can take it to the dealer when it breaks.

I appreciate all the tips. I have done tons of reading. And with all the info I got right here I feel armed to the teeth for negotiation.

Just an update on this thread if anyone cares. We bought a used car recently and I would say it was a fantastic deal. I got them to drop the price $2500 and throw in a 100k warranty for free. Paid $2k under what Edmunds and kbb said was the average price.

At first they wouldn't budge on price. But as everyone says, your greatest power is walking away. I reminded myself this and we started walking. Got to the door and the manager came begging to sell us the car. I told him my price and pointed out how many of this car was out there (within 20 miles nonetheless) for the same asking price and that I was confident that someone would be willing to work a deal with me. I stared silently at him until he spoke. He countered, I reminded him he has another identical car on the lot that had already sat for 90 days so it would make sense that this one would too, I was there to take it off his hands. He finally threw out a good number and added warranty. Sold! Not going to lie, it was pretty fun.

My advice to others after my only dealer purchase, specifically used. Come armed to the teeth with knowledge. Know what the next closest dealers are selling the same car for and how many there are, this will tell you truly that if the first deal doesn't work, there is another car down the road. Don't be afraid to remind salesmen this. Know what other similar models they have on their own lot. Pick an amount you want to pay and get it. I was hesitant to throw out such a low number because I had heard some dealers will just laugh at you, no reason not to try, there's another dealer down the road with the same car.

Anyhow, this kind of just verifies all the info out there, it does help you get a good deal. Good luck to anyone else out there doing the same task.