Saison using wine yeast

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TLProulx

Active Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
34
Reaction score
0
Location
Montreal
I wasn't really a fan of saison beer until I tasted the Brasserie Charlevoix Dominus Vobiscum Saison.

What I really liked in this beer is it's a refreshing beer with fruit aroma and flavor and without any spice.

So this weekend, I read the book Farmhouses Ales (...) by Phil Markowski.
The section about the Dupont yeast (WLP565) strain caught my attention when he said that it is believed that the strain has evolved from a wine strain. This yeast is supposed to produce fruity aroma and flavor.

So could I use a white or red wine yeast know for hyper fruity flavor/aroma?
Anyone has tried it?

Thanks
 
Most wine strains are incapable of fermenting maltotriose and have difficulty with maltose. You would end up with a very sweet beer.

There are ways to deal with this though. I recommended listening to an episode if The Brewing Network's Sunday Session from 11/23/08. The interviewed Shea Comfort. He is a professional wine consultant and a homebrewer. They had a long discussion on using wine yeast in beer as well as using oak in beer. Great show.
 
Here's the short version: the strain may have evolved from a wine yeast strain, but that means it's very different from the wine-fermenter it used to be. If you pitch a modern wine yeast, it hasn't evolved to be happy in beer, so it's going to give you poor results. Now, if you cultured some yeast from that beer, you could use THAT to ferment your beer no problem.
 
Here's the short version: the strain may have evolved from a wine yeast strain, but that means it's very different from the wine-fermenter it used to be.

I agree. Saisons are a lot about the yeast, so just pick an established Saison yeast and use that.

A few good ones.

3711. a real beast that will always finish low with no problem
3724. Nice, more spice but need heat to finish up. A little more difficult to use.
Belle Saison..More like 3711. Finishes low. Works in a wide temp range. A little more spice and a little less citrus flavor than 3711.
 
I know Anchorage Brewing uses a wine yeast in their Love Buzz saison for bottle conditioning. I think his process is typical saison strain for primary, secondary in wine barrels with a brett strain, and then bottle with wine yeast. It is a very interesting beer.

I think using a wine yeast for any primary fermentation would not work out well. I could see using a combination of 3724 for primary and a wine strain for secondary to dry it out. Taking it that low with wine yeast would require you hop very conservatively.
 
I know Anchorage Brewing uses a wine yeast in their Love Buzz saison for bottle conditioning. I think his process is typical saison strain for primary, secondary in wine barrels with a brett strain, and then bottle with wine yeast. It is a very interesting beer.

I think using a wine yeast for any primary fermentation would not work out well. I could see using a combination of 3724 for primary and a wine strain for secondary to dry it out. Taking it that low with wine yeast would require you hop very conservatively.

Unless your fermentation stalled, wine yeast won't dry a beer out. It's incapable of fermenting maltotriose, generally. 3724 will ferment far more sugars than a wine yeast (again, unless it's stalled). You can use wine yeast when bottling as it will eat the sugars you added, but it's not going to eat more malt sugars than the beer yeast already has.

BTW, Love Buzz is awesome. Anchorage Brewing was at Copenhagen Beer Celebration, which I attended, and they had a lot of really, really nice beers. Lots of tasty Brett.

Dannypo listed a very good episode of the Session to listen to. The guy on that show is enthusiastic and full of great information.

After listening to that episode, I decided to go ahead and try a wine yeast. I brewed a Belgian IPA yesterday and pitched WLP550 and Lalvin 71B. Curious to see what kind of fruit flavors the wine yeast adds. 71B is the only yeast he lists on that show that he says is non competitive with beer yeast. From what I remember from listening to it, there are 2 things to look for in wine yeast. First, "phenol off flavor". If the yeast tests negative for phenol off flavor then it can produce flavors that might be good in a beer. He lists a number of yeasts that are negative for phenol off flavor. Then, there's the competitive factor. All of the yeasts he lists except 71B are "killer" yeasts. He says that killer yeasts produce a protein that will kill beer yeast, stop it dead in its tracks within 12 hours.

So, of the yeasts he mentions, 71B is the only one that go straight into the fermenter in conjunction with a beer yeast without killing the beer yeast.

For the other yeasts, he recommends blending. He recommends pulling 1/3 of your wort when you chill and put that into a separate fermenter with the wine yeast, then blend the beers after primary, say at bottling. It will add more malt sugars back into the beer, more mouthfeel and sweetness, so you need to plan your recipe accordingly.

He also said some German commercial brewers have been experimenting with using 1/3 71B with 2/3 weissbier yeast for wheat beers.

I was reading somewhere else that some brewers were using ONLY K1-V1116 for some beer fermentations. If I can find the link I will post it.

This also got me thinking about how to get some character from the wine yeast. I thought about fermenting primary with the beer yeast, then adding honey into secondary along with the wine yeast. Don't know if that would get enough character from the wine yeast, though.

Anyway, it's worth considering some of this stuff. I recommend listening to that episode of the Session.

Here's a quick breakdown of the yeasts he listed and their character. Like I said "killer" means it will kill off the beer yeast. Sorry if I messed any names up. You'll just have to listen to the episode yourselves! "susceptible" with the 71B means it doesn't produce that killer protein and can play well with other yeasts. I think it's the same as "active", "neutral" and "sensitive" for competitive factor on this chart I'm linking, but this chart doesn't list if a beer is negative for phenol off flavors.

http://www.lallemandwine.us/products/yeast_chart.php

Here's what the guy said in the interview:

71B susceptible fruit salad, all sorts of crazy fruitiness.
EC1118 killer neutral winey character. maybe with belgians.
K1V1116 killer stone fruit, peach
GRE killer fresh berry
BM45 killer cherry tremendous mouthfeel
L2226 killer berry
 
BTW, Love Buzz is awesome. Anchorage Brewing was at Copenhagen Beer Celebration, which I attended, and they had a lot of really, really nice beers. Lots of tasty Brett.

Jealous. I bet that was one heck of an event. I think Anchorage is as good or better than any brewery in the US. I've only had Love Buzz and Galaxy, I need to put some effort into getting the other stuff. Another Session has a really good interview with Gabe Fletcher.

Great write up on the wine yeast episode. It's an interesting one. Another section of the interview is all about oak, maybe Matt can do cliff notes for it, to.
 
Jealous. I bet that was one heck of an event. I think Anchorage is as good or better than any brewery in the US. I've only had Love Buzz and Galaxy, I need to put some effort into getting the other stuff. Another Session has a really good interview with Gabe Fletcher.

Great write up on the wine yeast episode. It's an interesting one. Another section of the interview is all about oak, maybe Matt can do cliff notes for it, to.

Yeah, that was the best beer festival I've ever been to. I haven't been to GABF, though, but I've been to the Great British Beer Festival, Belgian Beer Weekend in Brussels, the summer beer fest in Portland a ton of times, a beer festival put on by Anderson Valley Brewing more than a dozen years ago and a few others here and there. The one in Copenhagen had them all beat. Tons of American brewers were there. You'd usually receive your beer straight from the brewer, so could ask questions. No tokens, no paying, just buy the ticket (yes, expensive) ahead of time, go in and drink whatever you want. Good way to do it. It was the most fun I had at a beer festival for sure. Crowd was limited to 1000 people as well. And the tickets sold out within a week of the announcement. So, it was pretty much all beer geeks and none of the people just out to get wasted. I mean, we DID get wasted, but just because there were so many beers we wanted to try. We got through 110 in a day and a half. Small glasses. Just a really nice way to do it. I sampled tons of Brett beers.

I heard that Anchorage session as well. Another nice one.

With this wine yeast episode, I didn't listen to the barrel aging part of it as I'm not doing that at the moment. It's saved for later if I ever get around to doing that. Can't do it in my current space.
 
Unless your fermentation stalled, wine yeast won't dry a beer out. It's incapable of fermenting maltotriose, generally. 3724 will ferment far more sugars than a wine yeast (again, unless it's stalled). You can use wine yeast when bottling as it will eat the sugars you added, but it's not going to eat more malt sugars than the beer yeast already has.

I learn something new everyday. I'll have to check out some of those sessions you mentioned.

But yeah, I assumed 3724 would slow around 1.020 and then the wine yeast could take over. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;)
 
I haven't used the Wyeast iteration but have used White Labs WLP565, the Dupont strain from them and I didn't have any problems. Attenuated very well for me.

I was just rereading some of the Farmhouse Ales book and he said that one theory about the slowdown with that yeast is that it's having a hard time with those more complex sugars like maltotriose (possibly, goes the theory, because it used to be a wine yeast), so if that yeast is slowing down because of those sugars, and wine yeast can't eat those sugars, then your theory is broken! ;-)
 
I was just rereading some of the Farmhouse Ales book and he said that one theory about the slowdown with that yeast is that it's having a hard time with those more complex sugars like maltotriose

Another theory I've heard, and I don't remember the source (could be Farmhouse Ales or a podcast or something), is that that strain slows down because it is only one yeast of several that make up the original. So say Wyeast got a hold of Saison Dupont and isolated the yeast, they only got one of several that were actually in the beer. But I admit, I am landscape architect and not a biologist, so my yeast knowledge is elementary.
 
You could always make the initial pitch with the wine yeast and add a nice, clean beer strain once it stalls to finish things off.

Come to think of it, I might have to try that one of these days.
 
Another theory I've heard, and I don't remember the source (could be Farmhouse Ales or a podcast or something), is that that strain slows down because it is only one yeast of several that make up the original. So say Wyeast got a hold of Saison Dupont and isolated the yeast, they only got one of several that were actually in the beer. But I admit, I am landscape architect and not a biologist, so my yeast knowledge is elementary.

Yeah, in that book he says that the brewer or former brewer at Dupont says there are 4 strains in their yeast. White Labs says there are multiple, Wyeast says there are not. White Labs picked the one the produced a flavor most like Dupont, supposedly. It could be that that specific strain is not the one that finishes up the fermentation in Dupont.

But, from what I've seen, it has no problem super attenuating if you keep it hot. I recently fermented one beer with it, pitched at 77 and let rise to 95. It came out lovely, very nice Saison. Went from 1.051 down to 1.004, so ~92% attenuation.

A second beer was pitched at 71 and let rise to 80 F. That one also showed no trouble, fermented from 1.071 down to 1.009, 87% attenuation. And neither beer used sugar. I wonder if people have problems with the yeast from underpitching and then not fermenting warm enough.

But then I admit I color comic books for a living and am no biologist either! :)

You could always make the initial pitch with the wine yeast and add a nice, clean beer strain once it stalls to finish things off.

Come to think of it, I might have to try that one of these days.

If you do that, make sure you don't use one of those killer yeasts. The beer yeast would simply not work in that case, it'd just die, presuming that the killer protein they produce stays in solution.

With this, I am just going with what that guy said in his interview. I don't have any direct experience with wine yeast killing beer yeast.
 
dannypo said:
Most wine strains are incapable of fermenting maltotriose and have difficulty with maltose. You would end up with a very sweet beer.

There are ways to deal with this though. I recommended listening to an episode if The Brewing Network's Sunday Session from 11/23/08. The interviewed Shea Comfort. He is a professional wine consultant and a homebrewer. They had a long discussion on using wine yeast in beer as well as using oak in beer. Great show.

Yeah that is one of the best brewing podcasts I have ever listened to. One of those things that teaches you how much you don't know and inspires you to a whole new level of brewing research.
 
I recommended listening to an episode if The Brewing Network's Sunday Session from 11/23/08. The interviewed Shea Comfort. He is a professional wine consultant and a homebrewer. They had a long discussion on using wine yeast in beer as well as using oak in beer. Great show.

I got around to listening to that podcast today, and wow! Some intense information. I need to give a few more listens and take better notes next time. Between that and the Chad Yakobson show I listened to a few months back, I've been re-energized about brewing. Some really good stuff.
 
But yeah, I assumed 3724 would slow around 1.020 and then the wine yeast could take over. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;)
your theory won't work. the beer yeast will start by fermenting all the simple sugars, when it stalls out a 1.020-1.030 only complex sugars will be left. if you pitch wine yeast at that point, it'll kill the beer yeast (unless you use 71B) and won't be able to ferment the left-over complex sugars.
 
An update of my experience thus far:

I pitched a decently large amount of slurry of WLP550 from a previous batch along with one 8 gram packet of 71B into a Belgian IPA. That beer used 8.3% sugar and the expected FG was 1.006 with that WLP550. OG was 1.071.

But, it stalled out at 1.016, 77% attenuation. That's really not good for that yeast. I've used that yeast a lot and don't think I've ever seen anything below maybe 83% attenuation. The beer is too sweet. There are nice fruity notes there, but it's simply too sweet.

In that Session podcast, it's stated that 71B is not a killer yeast, but I remain dubious. What I saw from the fermentation was this: It was slow to start, showing almost no krauesen. It then rapidly fermented the beer down from 1.071 to 1.018 in 72 hours but never built up a proper krauesen (I'm fine with that, just pointing it out.). The head was creamy and foamy looking. Never got very big and never had that hop oil gunk on top as usually happens. At about the 2.5 day mark, the yeast ceased showing any signs of life. What little head there was, disappeared. There was no visible activity from the yeast and it dropped out of suspension.

Anyway, after those three days, fermentation seemed to have ceased. Measured the SG a week later, at ten days in and it was at 1.016, which is far, far too high. It looks to me like the 71B disturbed the WLP550's fermentation. It tastes nice, but way too sweet. I'll be racking this onto some Brett Trois to see if it can knock off another 10 points for me. People might think 77% is fine, but not for a Belgian IPA and not with that yeast. Should have fermented much drier than that. It tastes like wort that hasn't finished fermenting.

If I were to do this again, I would do what he recommends in the podcast. I'd rack 1/3 of the wort into another fermenter and ferment them separately, using the wine yeast in that smaller amount of wort, then blend back at the end. Mash really low, use a decent amount of simple sugars so it's dry enough when you blend them back together. I wouldn't pitch those yeasts into the same fermenter again.

This is just my experience. Like I said, I've used WLP550 many times and this high FG is not usual for this yeast. So, I have to assume that the mixed yeast fermentation is the cause. I can't know for certain. No way to know. But from being very familiar with this yeast's performance, I'm surprised.

Oh, it was pitched at 66 and allowed to warm up. 48 hours in it was at 77 and was held at that elevated temp up until the 10 day mark. This is roughly how I usually treat WLP550.
 
Been a while, so figured I would report back on my experience with using wine yeast in that beer I previously mentioned. Wasn't a Saison, but a Belgian IPA.

So after what I wrote before, I did indeed rack it on top of Brett Trois from a previous fermentation. I had made a Rye Strong Ale with Galaxy hops that came out quite nice, with all Brett Trois. When I bottled that, I racked this Belgian IPA straight onto that slurry with maybe 500 ml of that rye beer still in there as well.

The beer didn't go crazy or anything, but it did pick up fermenting a bit and kept at it for a few weeks. So, I just let it sit.

After about 11 days, it had taken the beer from 1.016 to 1.009. 25 days after that, it was down to 1.006. Then, after another 17 days or so, I bottled it. I dry hopped at the end as well. These were all El Dorado hops.

So, to reiterate, initial pitch was WLP550, that Achouffe yeast along with Lalvin 71B. The wine yeast seemed to dominate that fermentation and only got to 1.016, down from 1.071, about 77% attenuation for a beer with 8% sugar. I would expect 85 to 89% from that WLP550 with that much sugar based on my system and how I handle that yeast. Wanted it dryer, so racked onto Brett Trois. That took it to 1.006, about 91% attenuation.

Now, to the important notes. What does it taste like? In short, it is awesome. I didn't have high hopes for this beer. I figured it would be a mess. But it isn't. It's really great. I've shared it with a lot of people as well and everyone loves it.

It has a unique and intense fruity character that is just awesome. What came from what? Well, it is indeed a mix. So who can say? But, the Brett Trois didn't really have a lot to do here. The heavy lifting was done, I would say, by that wine yeast. I've used that Brett a few times now and it isn't exactly that fruit character I am picking up. I don't know how I would characterize it exactly, but it is entirely pleasant and very unique. I have never tasted the like of it in a beer.

I would try this again for sure. Definitely worth a go. But that wine yeast seems to me to have interfered with the regular Sacch yeast, causing it to not finish up. I know this is supposedly a non killer yeast, but that's what it looked like to me. I think it is worth trying for sure, but be aware that you are taking a risk. Me, I don't mind the risk and don't mind if something doesn't work out once in a while. But just be aware of this. The resultant flavor in the beer is really amazing.

So there you have it. Anyone else given this a go yet?
 
Wine yeast will ferment maltose. They're the exact same species of yeast as beer yeast. They all eat maltose. However, some strains also do maltotriose, just as some beer yeast eat raffinose. So the myth of wine yeast only eating fructose or glucose or "simple sugards" needs to be put to bed. Find the right wine yeast and you can ferment beer with it. Mash to favor maltose instead of maltotriose, and you can ferment with wine yeast. Read about K1V-1116. It will ferment maltotriose without a problem. It is the US-05 / 1056 of the wine world, too.
 
Been a while, so figured I would report back on my experience with using wine yeast in that beer I previously mentioned. Wasn't a Saison, but a Belgian IPA.

So after what I wrote before, I did indeed rack it on top of Brett Trois from a previous fermentation. I had made a Rye Strong Ale with Galaxy hops that came out quite nice, with all Brett Trois. When I bottled that, I racked this Belgian IPA straight onto that slurry with maybe 500 ml of that rye beer still in there as well.

The beer didn't go crazy or anything, but it did pick up fermenting a bit and kept at it for a few weeks. So, I just let it sit.

After about 11 days, it had taken the beer from 1.016 to 1.009. 25 days after that, it was down to 1.006. Then, after another 17 days or so, I bottled it. I dry hopped at the end as well. These were all El Dorado hops.

So, to reiterate, initial pitch was WLP550, that Achouffe yeast along with Lalvin 71B. The wine yeast seemed to dominate that fermentation and only got to 1.016, down from 1.071, about 77% attenuation for a beer with 8% sugar. I would expect 85 to 89% from that WLP550 with that much sugar based on my system and how I handle that yeast. Wanted it dryer, so racked onto Brett Trois. That took it to 1.006, about 91% attenuation.

Now, to the important notes. What does it taste like? In short, it is awesome. I didn't have high hopes for this beer. I figured it would be a mess. But it isn't. It's really great. I've shared it with a lot of people as well and everyone loves it.

It has a unique and intense fruity character that is just awesome. What came from what? Well, it is indeed a mix. So who can say? But, the Brett Trois didn't really have a lot to do here. The heavy lifting was done, I would say, by that wine yeast. I've used that Brett a few times now and it isn't exactly that fruit character I am picking up. I don't know how I would characterize it exactly, but it is entirely pleasant and very unique. I have never tasted the like of it in a beer.

I would try this again for sure. Definitely worth a go. But that wine yeast seems to me to have interfered with the regular Sacch yeast, causing it to not finish up. I know this is supposedly a non killer yeast, but that's what it looked like to me. I think it is worth trying for sure, but be aware that you are taking a risk. Me, I don't mind the risk and don't mind if something doesn't work out once in a while. But just be aware of this. The resultant flavor in the beer is really amazing.

So there you have it. Anyone else given this a go yet?


It’s great to be reading this. I just experimented using these same two yeasts in a similar size beer (1.062 OG) and it stalled at 1.016. My thought was to rack into an empty keg with Brett and let it hang out for a while. It’s good to see you had good results. Keeping my fingered crossed it s a tasty and interesting beer.
 
I fermented a Grisette Four years ago copitched with roughly equal parts K1-V1116 (recommended as not being a “killer yeast” for beer), WY3711, and WLP565. No starters, pitched at 65* (to get wine yeast character first), and allowed to free rise. Fermentation was very vigorous and fast, and finished at almost zero FG. It had some sulfur when it was young, but I also bottled in green 750s. All three yeasts were expressed, and it was a hit. Will do something similar again soon, but I’m very curious to use 71B, as I love Beaujolais.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/product-details/lalvin-icv-k1-v1116/
 
What your experiences or thoughts on re-using a blend of wine yeast and Saison yeasts from a fermented batch for a new batch of wort?
 
Wine yeast will ferment maltose.
i've heard several knowledgeable folks state that it can't (ex: Zainasheff & White, BYO, etc.. this is the first time i'm hearing that it can. do you happen to have any sources to back this up?

as far as i know, and as you mentioned, K1V-1116 is the only wine yeast that can ferment maltotriose (and even then, not quite as efficiently as ale yeast, and even less so than lager yeast). if you know of more such wine yeasts that can ferment 2- and 3-chain sugars, please let us know. but K1V is an exception to the rule. you can't say "wine yeast will ferment maltose", the implication being that all wine yeast can, when there is only one exception.

They're the exact same species of yeast as beer yeast. They all eat maltose. However, some strains also do maltotriose, just as some beer yeast eat raffinose.
that argument doesn't hold up: bread yeast is the exact same species, but it doesn't do well fermenting beer. it's about selective breeding: spend a few hundred (or thousand) generations not needing to do something, and the species will lose that ability.
 
Most wine strains are incapable of fermenting maltotriose and have difficulty with maltose. You would end up with a very sweet beer.

There are ways to deal with this though. I recommended listening to an episode if The Brewing Network's Sunday Session from 11/23/08. The interviewed Shea Comfort. He is a professional wine consultant and a homebrewer. They had a long discussion on using wine yeast in beer as well as using oak in beer. Great show.
Most wine strains are incapable of fermenting maltotriose and have difficulty with maltose. You would end up with a very sweet beer.

There are ways to deal with this though. I recommended listening to an episode if The Brewing Network's Sunday Session from 11/23/08. The interviewed Shea Comfort. He is a professional wine consultant and a homebrewer. They had a long discussion on using wine yeast in beer as well as using oak in beer. Great show.
Hi, I'm an Italian homebrewer and I want to make an Italian grape ale using a blend of fermentis us05 and Wild yeasts of grape must. I'm interested in what you wrote "Most wine strains are incapable of fermenting maltotriose and have difficulty with maltose".....do you have any articles or book on this topic ?thanks
 
It's probably worth pointing people to an old thread of mine where I brought together data from two papers where people measured the phenolics from different commercial wine yeasts, and what I could find on killer status - which is frustratingly disparate and inconsistent so if anyone has better sources I'd love to hear about them!

It's also worth noting that there are multiple killer systems and some strains can be insensitive to some killer factors but susceptible to others.

So this weekend, I read the book Farmhouses Ales (...) by Phil Markowski.
The section about the Dupont yeast (WLP565) strain caught my attention when he said that it is believed that the strain has evolved from a wine strain. This yeast is supposed to produce fruity aroma and flavor.

The Markowski book is kinda old in that regard, things have been moving rapidly in this area. Genome sequencing in recent years has allowed us to create trees such as this one. (saison/square yeasts are the green group at the top, wine strains the red one at 1 o'clock, main brewery group is at the bottom. WLP565 is about a third of the way from the left of the green group)

The main saison/square group is a sibling of the main wine group, and they form a "supergroup" different in quite a lot of ways to other cerevisiae. But it's hard to generalise as there's all sorts of examples of members of the saison group being used in wine and vice versa, and "funnies" like a single hybridisation event between S. cerevisiae and S. kudriavzevii that led to WY1214, WLP500 and Abbaye.

So could I use a white or red wine yeast know for hyper fruity flavor/aroma?

It doesn't really work like that - there's all sorts of fun biochemistry going on within wine yeasts, but a lot of it is providing yeast enzymes that work on particular chemicals in grape juice that aren't necessarily present in wort. However, the wine guys are very interested in thiol chemistry as it contributes a lot of the sexy aromas in things like sauvignon blanc, and so they have studied enzymes that work on some of the same thiols as are found in "tropical" hops. They're way ahead of where things are in beer, but people are starting to play with wine strains as helper yeasts for flavour, eg Scott Janish has used VIN7 to try to release 3MH which is then converted to 3MHA (perhaps the best known of the "tropical", passion fruit/guava flavours). You also have people playing with other species like Metschnikowia.

The only trouble is that a lot of the thiol-interesting wine yeasts are fairly specialist at this stage, so they tend to only be available as 500g bricks, or at best they're only available in 50-100g packs in their home region - a lot are coming out of South Africa, some out of places like Eastern Europe.

Hi, I'm an Italian homebrewer and I want to make an Italian grape ale using a blend of fermentis us05 and Wild yeasts of grape must. I'm interested in what you wrote "Most wine strains are incapable of fermenting maltotriose and have difficulty with maltose".....do you have any articles or book on this topic ?thanks

See eg Gallone et al 2016 , who did some phenotype testing alongside their genome sequencing. I wouldn't rely on their lab work absolutely, there's a couple of obvious cases where something went wrong, but it's a good starting point.

" Beer yeasts show a significantly higher capacity to metabolize maltotriose, a carbon source specifically found in beer medium (Figure 3E; Table S6). Efficient utilization of malto-triose correlates with the presence of a specific allele (AGT1) of the sugar transporter MAL11, known to show high affinity for maltotriose (phenotypic variability explained by SNPs in MAL11 77.40%, SE 0.5%). This allele is only present in Beer1 subpopulations and some mosaic strains, while the complete MAL1 locus (including the MAL11 gene) is absent in the Wine subpopulation (Table S7). Interestingly, strains of the Beer 2 sub-population are generally able to ferment maltotriose but contain various frameshift mutations in MAL11 and show a reduced CNV for the complete MAL1 locus, suggesting that other, yet un-known mechanisms facilitate maltotriose uptake in this lineage, and maltotriose metabolism evolved convergently in the Beer 1 and Beer 2 lineages. "

(they refer to the main family of brewery yeasts as Beer 1 and the saison/square group as Beer 2)

And in fact anyone interested in this kind of stuff should skim the Gallone paper to at least get an idea of the lay of the land, even if you don't need to understand the detail.

Of course many saison yeasts have the STA1 ("diastaticus") glucoamylase which along with some homologues of the MTT1 transporter seems to be their main system for processing maltotriose (courtesy of Suregork of this parish).
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Back
Top