No, I am saying they are the same. He was implying a difference by correcting me by saying that you were talking about rims. I pointed out that its the same principle.
Conditioning grain == awesome.
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No, I am saying they are the same. He was implying a difference by correcting me by saying that you were talking about rims. I pointed out that its the same principle.
wildwest450
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I'm out, mill how you want, your brewing genius is undeniable.
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I initially got 5 gallon bucket for it but DO NOT DO THIS. instead get a shallow wide container, like a rectangular storage bin. much easier to mix with your hand.
I started out with a really fine mist but eventually found that quite a lot of liquid was getting stuck to the side walls of my bin so I loosened it up a bit. So I would say about halfway between a mist and a stream works well.
I like to condition the night before in a spare cooler and button it all up overnight... allows the water to more evenly distribute and be absorbed into the hulls.
smakudwn
Well-Known Member
I condition mine overnight also, but I just use a Homer Bucket.
milldoggy
Well-Known Member
So a wide bin and somewhere between a mist and spray. I like the idea of conditioning overnight. With a wide rubbermaid like bin, you could even snap a lid on to kept the critters out. Thanks for the tips.
Yep. And I find I can go beyond Kai's original 3 oz per 11 pound recommendation because the water has a little more time to distribute, so you don't get "wet spots". By morning, the grain feels fluffier before milling but you should not notice any obvious wetness. I also set my spray bottle to mist, but with letting it rest overnight, it probably makes very little difference as long as you are mixing the grain by hand as you spray to evenly distribute the water.
williamnave
Well-Known Member
And cheers to you sir!
So, I know I'm a broken record here, but what other benefits has anyone experienced? Once the whole vorlauf vs marbles debate is over, I'd love to hear what people have experienced with conditioning in relation to flavor, efficiency, etc. How about color? Tannin extraction? Did anyone here have an issue that they cleared up by moving to conditioning their malt?
As a total *Hijack* I would encourage all of you looking for better efficiency to get into water chemistry. The mill at my LHBS never got me much over 72-75% until I dove into that. It is a cheap, easy way to boost your efficiency.
Reduction in grainbed compaction and better filtering during lauter/sparge. Should not really affect flavor and tannin extraction is more a function of pH, so it also should not really impact it. Color is again pH (during the boil it affects Maillard reactions) and should not be impacted by conditioning.
In terms of efficiency, I don't think it will help you that much if you have a good process/technique to begin with. Also, if you do an iodine test for conversion, you may find your conversion is complete more quickly as the endosperm are more pulverized and hence accessible (if you tighten your gap settings).
So, in summary:
- Better and more even filtration with less chances of channeling
- less chance of stuck sparge and fewer rice hulls needed in wheat and rye beers
- potential for tighter crush which may hasten conversion (of improve conversion rate) in the mash
- may help some people with efficiency issues if it is an issue with their sparging technique or the geometry of their MT is susceptible to channeling
That's about all I can think of this morning.
BrewinBigD
Well-Known Member
As soon as my mill arives and i have grain im trying this. any efficency gains from conditioned malt?
You can crush finer and still get good husks to prevent a stuck mash. Better crush typically results in higher efficiency
Catawampus
Well-Known Member
For those who have a lot of experience with this, does conditioning the malt necessitate adjusting the grain absorption factor at all? Or, is it such a small amount as not to matter there?
I do not make any adjustments.
And cheers to you sir!
So, I know I'm a broken record here, but what other benefits has anyone experienced? Once the whole vorlauf vs marbles debate is over, I'd love to hear what people have experienced with conditioning in relation to flavor, efficiency, etc. How about color? Tannin extraction? Did anyone here have an issue that they cleared up by moving to conditioning their malt?
As a total *Hijack* I would encourage all of you looking for better efficiency to get into water chemistry. The mill at my LHBS never got me much over 72-75% until I dove into that. It is a cheap, easy way to boost your efficiency.
One other benefit is it cuts down the dust factor alot. I have asthma and the dust used to be alot more bothersome for me. If milling indoors we all know about the dust level in the hobby shops we visit.
I don't know if it makes a better filter bed, and don't care as I have never experienced a stuck sparge. I think for me the benefit is the dust factor and a finer grind with intact hulls which I feel are less likely to induce tannins during mashout.
cadarnell
Well-Known Member
is this a good thing to do if you are using a corona mill?
It is an especially good thing to do when using a corona mill!!!!
cadarnell
Well-Known Member
thanks .. I hate the dust ... I'm gonna give it a try
two_hearted
Well-Known Member
I'm definitely starting to do this. All the dust from milling does bad things to me. I get an allergic reaction and my airway starts to swell up, itchy hands, trouble breathing all day. It's scared me away from milling my own grains for a while.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Also to mention that if you ferment in the same area you brew you do not want all that grain dust flying around. There are plenty of nasties in grain that could possibly cause infection issues.
I am not scared of the dust because it is usually all settled by the time I am draining to the fermenters, but I like to keep it to a minimum just for extra protection.
I am not scared of the dust because it is usually all settled by the time I am draining to the fermenters, but I like to keep it to a minimum just for extra protection.
apshaffer
Well-Known Member
I conditioned my malt for several batches last year and found no difference in efficiency. I may have used too much water because it gummed up my barley crusher every time, which was a huge pain. It did cut down on dust and make the crush look nice and fluffy. After a few batches and having to clean my barley crusher each time with a wire brush, I abandoned malt conditioning. To each his own, but I saw no measurable/noticeable benefit to malt conditioning.
Yes, you used too much water! I used about 100 ml for 9 lbs grain
If you brew in the same area where you crush, conditioning is almost an imperative. Grain dust is combustible, so it's a potential safety hazard to mill a bunch of grain and then fire up your turkey fryer in the same area.
KitB
Well-Known Member
I condition in a tray I purchased at Home Depot that is intended for mixing concrete/mortar.
I spray & mix, then check whether I can grab a handful of grain & have a substantial portion stick to my hand, when opening my fist.
Then, I allow the grain to sit for roughly an hour.
This gives the hulls some time to absorb the water & get a bit more pliable.
My Barley Crusher is set to .024".
I get damn near 100% extract efficiency.
Edit:
And...The hulls come out very well intact...Contributing to a great filter bed.
As others have stated...The intact hulls lead to clearer wort, once the bed is set.
I don't know what nickharbour was getting at, but I have to disagree.
I spray & mix, then check whether I can grab a handful of grain & have a substantial portion stick to my hand, when opening my fist.
Then, I allow the grain to sit for roughly an hour.
This gives the hulls some time to absorb the water & get a bit more pliable.
My Barley Crusher is set to .024".
I get damn near 100% extract efficiency.
Edit:
And...The hulls come out very well intact...Contributing to a great filter bed.
As others have stated...The intact hulls lead to clearer wort, once the bed is set.
I don't know what nickharbour was getting at, but I have to disagree.
BrewinBigD
Well-Known Member
Ya think you get enough filter media to skip the use of rice hulls for wheat beers?? Maybe not for fly spargers but i batch anyway and wouldnt mind saving the money that i could be using to buy other cool beer stuff.
milldoggy
Well-Known Member
KitB said:
Do you condition your wheat and barley together?
KitB
Well-Known Member
Sorry...I've never brewed with wheat.
My wife & I are not big enough fans of wheat beers, to consume 5 gallons.
Wheat beers would take up precious keezer space, for far too long.
Once you go spray-bottle, you never go back.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malt_Conditioning#Conditioning_Wheat_Malt
Depends on what % wheat. I may still use a small amount of rice hulls for 50% wheat beers or 25% ryes. Depends on the quality of your manifold as well. From what understand, braids tend to gum up moreso than a good manifold on rye/wheat beers.
I condition wheat with the barley, but I don't bother conditioning rye.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malt_Conditioning#Conditioning_Wheat_Malt
bighorn_brew
Well-Known Member
I just did this successfully by putting my recipe together in a five gallon pot, total of 13lbs, and remembered that I wanted to try this technique. So, I took the hand sprayer nozzle of my sink and gave my malt quick sprays with lots of working the malt from top to bottom until I felt that all the malt had been moistened. With a long handled spoon and my hands was able to get down to the bottom and get every bit of it. Then I let it sit for an hour to kinda "even out" the moisture....I crushed directly onto the mash water, and didn't think of grabbing a handful to check it out, but hopefully I see a nice easy runoff....I have a barley crusher set just slightly tighter than factory settings....
Do crushed grain that had been wet-conditioned need to be used asap?
Have been thinking of crushing grain a day or two before mashing and wondering whether the added water will cause the crushed grain to go mouldy fairly quickly?
Have been thinking of crushing grain a day or two before mashing and wondering whether the added water will cause the crushed grain to go mouldy fairly quickly?
What gap does everyone use for conditioned grain? I just did my first at .030, can I go tighter than that?
KitB
Well-Known Member
Mine's set to .024" & works nicely.
If your mill gums up, you used too much water.
If your mill gums up, you used too much water.
Once conditioned, do you mill right into the MT or into another bucket first?
Kit_B
Active Member
Typically, I crush the night before brewing.
I never crush directly into my tun.
I always crush into a bucket, lined with a bag.
I found this method to be a good idea, on two occasions...
Once, a bolt fell out of my mill base & dropped into the grain.
With the bag, I could easily reach in & pluck out the bolt...
Without it, I would have had to sift through a hot mash tun.
(I always slowly add milled grain to a tun of water, to avoid air pockets & dough balls.)
Another time, my mill bound up & I couldn't get it to continue grinding, without a susbstantial amount of time spent on cleaning & maintenance.
Had I ground into my tun, my mash would have already been started & be too hot, for a correct mash temp.
I never crush directly into my tun.
I always crush into a bucket, lined with a bag.
I found this method to be a good idea, on two occasions...
Once, a bolt fell out of my mill base & dropped into the grain.
With the bag, I could easily reach in & pluck out the bolt...
Without it, I would have had to sift through a hot mash tun.
(I always slowly add milled grain to a tun of water, to avoid air pockets & dough balls.)
Another time, my mill bound up & I couldn't get it to continue grinding, without a susbstantial amount of time spent on cleaning & maintenance.
Had I ground into my tun, my mash would have already been started & be too hot, for a correct mash temp.
So I tried this for the first time today. Approx three ounces of water with 12 lbs of grain applied last night and just milled....AMAZING!!!! Lets just say I wasn't sure how this would work and I was more than surprised. I'll let all know efficiency tonight (tightened rollers)
thatjonguy
Now with 57.93% more awesome!
I know you guys mentioned if it is wet, too much water was applied.
Any issues with rusting on the mills?
Any issues with rusting on the mills?
Reserve a half pound of base malt before you condition the rest, and run it through the mill at the end of the crush...
Cheers!
Cheers!
thatjonguy
Now with 57.93% more awesome!
Thanks!
Kit_B
Active Member
If done correctly, you won't have rusting issues, because the husks will have soaked up the moisture, before you've ground your grain.
Basically, it makes the husks somewhat leathery or pliable & makes them more resistant to tearing.
Consequently, they are more intact & able to be better utilized as a replacement for the addition of rice hulls, or other extraction aids.
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