Starter Question

Hello,

Just listened to a podcast with a fella' named Jamil (apparently a really good home brewer). They were really stressing the concept of pitching BIG starters. Saying you should be pitching for a 1.042 250 billion yeast (equivalent of 2.5 400ml Wyeast packets in good condition).

I have never done a starter, but I am wondering about a good method (maybe some pics) to get lets say 400 ml Wyeast package up to proper yeast population for pitching. They were talking about getting your starter up to 2 liters (thats huge compared to me just using a smackpack).

Furthermore, the podcast talked about how important this is. They said if you really want to make good beer, you have to do this pretty much.

How do you all feel about that from personal experience. For you who have both used a large starter vs. a smackpack for the same recipe, how did they compare.

Looking forward to hearing your answeres on this, and im sure i will probobly be using a large starter next batch.

-Ian

I use a starter from a 1 liter beer bottle and I've had no issues with fermentation thus far. I got this idea from the Homebrewing for Dummies book. Alot of folks suggest to use a bigger starters though.

pros for making a starter is proofing, min lag time, less conditioning time

cons are more equipment and prepare it before brew day

with some beers you can go from grain to glass in a week with a huge starter

JM2C

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Starter

I know that Jamil is considered a 'God' by many....but for most beers I've found a 1 liter starter to be more than enough....If your making a beer with a high OG or a lager...than you'll need to go larger.

It's a big deal dude! Making starters has taken the quality of my beer to a whole new level. The size of the starter depends on several factors. Have a look at Jamil's website mrmalty.com He has an awesome interactive calculator for figuring what size starter to make.

You will soon learn that a stirplate will help make starters much more manageable. Good news is that you can make your own stirplate for super cheap.

whats method have you been using. What I mean do you add wort to the starter in steps (at 1 day...2 days.. etc) or do you just add from the beginning. Also, do you decant of the top or just shake the starter and add when pitching to the 5 gallons.

thanks

I make the full starter, add the yeast and set it on the stirplate to spin for 48 hours +/- After that it's ready. On smaller starters (1 - 1.5 liters) I generally pitch the whole thing. On larger ones I decant the liquid and pitch only the yeast cake.

Pitching the proper amount of yeast is really not about getting your fermentation to start really quick, or getting grain to glass in a few days or whatever.
If you listen to Jamil's podcast or many other threads on this topic, it is more about getting an excellent final product.

3 Cups of water and 3/4 of light DME... you mix the DME with about 2 cups of water to dissolve it - I do this in a 4 cup measuring cup. Then you add the 3rd cup of water to it. This gets you about a 1.040 of about 800ml starter. I just boil it right in the flask on my stove cool it down to pitching temp or room temp (oh I forgot to mention I also smack the smack pack like 3 hours before I start the starter which is about 24 hours before plan to pitch the starter in the wort), put in the entire contents of the Wyeast smack pack in the cooled flask and put a cork with a hole in it and an airlock fitted in there. Put that on a stirplate and let it stir at a pretty low vortex for about 24 hours and you will have about 800ml-1L starter..

You can build your own stirplate and buy all the scientific stuff like flasks and what not at most online brew supply stores... I know Rebel Brewer has 'The Yeast Hog 1000) that is not too expensive and comes with everything you need including the stirplate.

Starters are important with liquid yeast. I get a 1.040 starter going a couple days before brewing size depends on the beer I am going to brew . I don't put an airlock on my starters . I just cover the flask opening with some lose tin foil and start the stirplate. I want to have some exchange on CO2 and O2 in the starter this helps them procreate in their liquid orgy.

can you do all this w/o a stir plate?

Yes, a stir plate is better, but not necessary. Make the starter with the prescribed DME to get the proper starter volume and pour into any sanitized bottle/jug. I've seen pics of people using 2 L soda bottles and growlers (what I used to use before purchasing a stir plate). Every time you walk past the starter, swirl vigorously. Do this for ~48 hrs. If you wish to decant the liquid, place the starter vessel in the refrig. for at least 24 hrs to drop the yeast out of suspension.

Yes. Stir plates keep the yeast in suspension and off of the bottom. You can do the same by swirling the starter everytime you walk past it. You also dont have to swirl it at all and it will still make a good starter.

sure here is a 1/2 gallon starter in a apple juice container . Top is just set on there and every few hours just screw the cap on and give a good shake.



I have used mason jars - growlers basically anything that will hold the wort works

phatuna said:

Pitching the proper amount of yeast is really not about getting your fermentation to start really quick, or getting grain to glass in a few days or whatever.
If you listen to Jamil's podcast or many other threads on this topic, it is more about getting an excellent final product.

Click to expand...

that's a given but since this is a beginners forum I should of mentioned that

Here is my procedure. It works awesomely thus far. Before I make the starter I make sure the yeast is either smacked, or at room temperature depending on which manufacture I'm using.

1. Goto http://mrmalty.com and figure out how big a starter you need for the beer. You can play around a bit I always shoot for whatever size it needs to be to only use one vial or smack pack.

2. I grab my flask and put it on my scale, and hit the zero button. I then put in the proper amount of DME by weight to make the starter. If you work in metric that is 10:1 ratio. For example malty says make a 1.5 litre starter. Then thats 150gram of DME and 1500 ml of water.

3. Put the water in the flask, water marks are on the flask. I add the appropriate number of ml to account for the dme. So in this example I'd put in 1650ml of water or so. I use a 2 liter flask for all starters up to 2 liters. So far even my imperial did not require a bigger starter.

4. I put a small amount of yeast nutrient(wyeast), some foam control (I use gas-x liquid gel squeezed out.) Then I stir the flask with the thermometer that I leave in there. I have one of the long metal kind.

5. I place a coat hanger I've bent into a star shape on top of the electric stove and sit the flask on it, turn on the heat and stay right there.

6. I bring it to a boil, then adjust down the heat, and pick up the flask if necessary in the event it tries to boil over which even with foam control can still happen although it rarely does. More of an issue with a 2 liter starter than a smaller one. Let it boil for 15 minutes or so.

7. Once its done, I take it off the stove and stick it directly in an ice bath I have waiting in the sink. I swirl it around while its cooling. I've left the thermometer in there the entire time so I know its sanitized. Takes about 5 minutes or so to cool.

8. Once its cooled to between 70-80 I sanitize the yeast package and pitch into starter. I also throw in the sanitized stir bar which has been soaking in starsan.

9. Put it on the stir plate, cover loosely with sanitized foil and turn on the stir plate adjust until I get a good vortex going.

10. Have another beer and spend a few minutes talking with the yeast explaining to them what kind of beer we are going to make, thank them and ask them to grow strong.

11. After 24-36 hours or so depending on the look of the starter, I turn off the stir plate and allow things to settle for about 20 minutes, and then I throw it in the fridge to cold crash. I time this to happen the night before brewing. Sundays are my brew day, I start the starter Thurs night or Friday at the latest. Usually put the starter in the fridge Saturday night.

12. Take the starter out of fridge 3-4 hours before the pitching, decant most of the old nasty beer so it will warm up easier. Swirl the flask to mix up the slurry and pitch as usual to aerated wort.

My brews practically explode the fermenter in less than 4 hours without fail. I've gotten into the habit of using blow offs. I have had to really watch temps as fermentation take off like a rocket and makes a lot of heat.

Do you need a stir plate, maybe not. Considering how easy it to make one I don't want to go without. Mine is really nice. The guy who made it used a 115v fan, so it plugs right in the wall has a dial to control the speed and easily stirs two liters.

I've refined this procedure because I like simplicity. Only one container from start to finish.

Step 10, +100 :rockin:

that was exactly what I was looking for

My pleasure.

I cobbled the procedure together from bit and pieces around here and mr malty. Its worked well, and I've had great results.