The complete cleaning regimen of a brutus system

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sourmash

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I now have 3 brew sessions through my brutus and the biggest question in the back of my mind (especially when I'm getting ready to brew again) is "Is my system clean and sanitized and ready to brew?"

I have read several posts here on the topic and of course many methods, and many theories are present. I have also listened to the pod casts with 5 star about cleaning/sanitizing. My profession is maintenance/reliability engineering and thought it would be really nice to have a maintenance schedule put together for cleaning/sanitizing of a brutus system much like a maintenance schedule for a vehicle or even a checklist that one can go through after brewing and before brewing. I figured since there are several brutus owners here, why not get a collaborative effort at developing a detailed regimen that one could keep a log book on.

Things that I am doing after every brew session includes:
1. - Scrubbing down all three kettles with a sanitized scotch brite pad and hot tap water and rinsing thoroughly.
2. - Fill up the HLT with about 3 or more gallons of hot tap water and run it through one of my 2 pumps to the mash tun. Then from the mash tun I pump that water through the second pump to the boil kettle. I then pump that water from the boil kettle through my plate chiller in the reverse direction that I used it during the brew session.
3. I run hot tap water through all my hoses and then store them away.
4. I clean my hop bag (I use a the 5 gallon paint stainer bags)
5. Rinse all my kettle lids with hot tap water.
6. Rinse my mash paddle with hot tap water.

Things I do before brewing:
1. Go through the same rinse schedule detailed above with using both pumps and all the kettles, only I use 5 gallons of hot tap water with the appropriate amount of Star San. I also wipe the sides of each barrel with a clean rag and the SS solution since 5 gallons will not get all the way up the sides.
2. I fill up one of my utility tubs up with about 8 gallons of hot tap water and add the appropriate amount of Star San. I use this to soak all of my hoses, hop bag, kettle lids, thermowells, and couplings.
3. I use a spray bottle with SS solution and spray down all of my quick disconnect fittings.

I am a complete novice at this point and am looking for some pointers/suggestions in effort to develop a complete list of a cleaning/sanitizing regimen. So by no means is this the "right way" of cleaning your system. Thankfully I have not had a batch go bad on me yet and hope to keep it that way!

Questions I have regarding time based cleaning intervals, meaning things that can be done maybe every 6 brew session etc..are:
1. What are the methods of cleaning plate chillers ( I have read a few here on the board) and how often do you do it?
2. Threaded fittings which most of the systems have, how often do you take all of the fitting out of all the kettles, chillers, hoses, etc.. and clean them thoroughly? I listened to the brew strong session with John from 5 Star and Jamil seemed to be committed to doing this but did not mention how often.

Once I have what seems to be a conclusive list I will put it in a word document of sorts and post it for those who find it helpful.

Cheers,
Joe
 
Things I do before brewing:
1. Go through the same rinse schedule detailed above with using both pumps and all the kettles, only I use 5 gallons of hot tap water with the appropriate amount of Star San. I also wipe the sides of each barrel with a clean rag and the SS solution since 5 gallons will not get all the way up the sides.
2. I fill up one of my utility tubs up with about 8 gallons of hot tap water and add the appropriate amount of Star San. I use this to soak all of my hoses, hop bag, kettle lids, thermowells, and couplings.
3. I use a spray bottle with SS solution and spray down all of my quick disconnect fittings.

I don't have a brutus but hope to some day soon. My question is why would you need to sanitize everything before brewing when it's all being boiled anyway?
 
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/mounted-therminator-how-sanitize-158201/

Here is a thread in which I discuss cleaning and sanitizing of heat exchangers. Some members feel this may be a bit overkill.

I can suggest that you try to capture the warm water from your HEX in your HLT and use that to clean with.

Mechanically removing the trub from the brew kettle is a very good thing. Beyond that, an overnight soak with Oxyclean or PBW in all your vessels should remove all of the organic soils. You can drop your hoses in the vessels and all will be ready to brew after a quick rinse.

Every few brews, it may be worth your while to scrub with an acid to remove inorganic soils.

If you wish for more details, please contact me with a PM
 
What kind of acid?

Almost any food grade acid will work. I prefer to use Acid 5 from Five Star. That is a blend of nitric/phosphoric acid. Very nasty stuff, but it removes beer stone quickly. Regular phosphoric will work just as well, but it takes a bit longer.
 
I'd say your cleaning regiment is more than adequate. I'd hazard to guess your system is cleaner than most of them out there.

Sounds to me like you are wasting quite a bit of star san.... here is what I would do, if I were you:

After each brew, run hot PBW or OXY through your entire system, then rinse with hot water and store away.

Before each brew, sanitize anything that will touch wort POST boil, so your chiller, fermenter, and hoses off the boil kettle.

As it stands, your using like 13 gallons of starsan mix BEFORE you brew to sanitize things that don't need it.

5 gallons of star san last me 3 or 4 brews!

I do think your a step ahead in whiping off the outside of your kettles to keep them clean!
 
I don't have a brutus but hope to some day soon. My question is why would you need to sanitize everything before brewing when it's all being boiled anyway?

Boiling doesn't kill everything. And sanitizing first is just that one more measure of insurance. It'll also keep down on floaties that have gone air born and are looking for a new home to contaminate.
 
Boiling doesn't kill everything. And sanitizing first is just that one more measure of insurance. It'll also keep down on floaties that have gone air born and are looking for a new home to contaminate.

Can you give me an example of a "something" that will ruin my beer from pre-boil?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I do not believe this is correct statement.

IMHO, and it is only my opinion, santitizing anything preboil is a waste of money. CLEANING preboil is easy and more than enough
 
Can you give me an example of a "something" that will ruin my beer from pre-boil?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I do not believe this is correct statement.

IMHO, and it is only my opinion, santitizing anything preboil is a waste of money. CLEANING preboil is easy and more than enough

+1 to this.

Boiling is sterilizing, which is more severe in its killing of things than sanitizing. The only thing I think that is doesn't kill is botulism, which sounds evil but is really not a big deal.

Even if boiling doesn't kill everything, it still does more than star san.
 
Can you give me an example of a "something" that will ruin my beer from pre-boil?


I can give you a lot of reading on the topic.
I can tell you that I don't know all the things that might get airborne and be bad for beer.

I do know that if you wanted to breed a bug (a superbug) that can survive a hostile environment such as that in beer or elsewhere the best way to get there is to give it those environments in which to breed uninterrupted. The strongest will survive. Which fact standing alone sort of does suggest that you can never be too clean.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I do not believe this is correct statement.

What is not correct? That boiling is not some magical kill all?
It ain't, there are a few yeasts that have been found to be able to survive two autoclave cycles.

IMHO, and it is only my opinion, santitizing anything preboil is a waste of money. CLEANING preboil is easy and more than enough

You might be right. But the cost of sanitizers is stupendously cheap.

One lousy ounce of Star San + 5 gallons H2O makes five gallons of sanitizer. What's concentrate Star San cost? Like $16.00 a quart?

One ounce of vinegar and one ounce of bleach + 5 gallons H2O makes five gallons of no rinse sanitizer. What's vinegar and bleach cost?

Hell, dilute vinegar is a great wipe down sanitizer.

Money is simply not a valid argument.

It might be an issue if you had to pay some one to do all the cleaning or sanitizing for you. But the cost of chemicals is so trivial that it doesn't even bear mentioning.


I belong in the camp that insists that while it is very rare to find a bug that can successfully invade, thrive, and contaminate beer - it still pays to be safe. Even while I am quite convinced that there are fewer than 200 bugs that can live long enough in beer to cause off flavors I still prefer to err on the side of sanitation.

Here's that reading I promised you:

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2010/01/qa-beer-safety-at-georgetown-brewing/
http://www.beer-brewing.com/beer-brewing/beer_chapters/ch19_beer_spoilage_organisms.htm

Mold and mycotoxin problems encountered during malting and brewing. http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:17727998

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24820895/Beer-A-Quality-Perspective

http://www.mycotox-society.org/files/news/23_Atti_Microsafetywine_20092.pdf

http://www.scientificsocieties.org/JIB/papers/2004/G-2004-0812-237.pdf


http://dissertations.ub.rug.nl/faculties/science/2002/k.sakamoto/

This is very interesting:
http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Cutboard.pdf
 
I can give you a lot of reading on the topic.
I can tell you that I don't know all the things that might get airborne and be bad for beer.

I do know that if you wanted to breed a bug (a superbug) that can survive a hostile environment such as that in beer or elsewhere the best way to get there is to give it those environments in which to breed uninterrupted. The strongest will survive. Which fact standing alone sort of does suggest that you can never be too clean.



What is not correct? That boiling is not some magical kill all?
It ain't, there are a few yeasts that have been found to be able to survive two autoclave cycles.



You might be right. But the cost of sanitizers is stupendously cheap.

One lousy ounce of Star San + 5 gallons H2O makes five gallons of sanitizer. What's concentrate Star San cost? Like $16.00 a quart?

One ounce of vinegar and one ounce of bleach + 5 gallons H2O makes five gallons of no rinse sanitizer. What's vinegar and bleach cost?

Hell, dilute vinegar is a great wipe down sanitizer.

Money is simply not a valid argument.

It might be an issue if you had to pay some one to do all the cleaning or sanitizing for you. But the cost of chemicals is so trivial that it doesn't even bear mentioning.


I belong in the camp that insists that while it is very rare to find a bug that can successfully invade, thrive, and contaminate beer - it still pays to be safe. Even while I am quite convinced that there are fewer than 200 bugs that can live long enough in beer to cause off flavors I still prefer to err on the side of sanitation.

Here's that reading I promised you:

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2010/01/qa-beer-safety-at-georgetown-brewing/
http://www.beer-brewing.com/beer-brewing/beer_chapters/ch19_beer_spoilage_organisms.htm

Mold and mycotoxin problems encountered during malting and brewing. http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:17727998

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24820895/Beer-A-Quality-Perspective

http://www.mycotox-society.org/files/news/23_Atti_Microsafetywine_20092.pdf

http://www.scientificsocieties.org/JIB/papers/2004/G-2004-0812-237.pdf


http://dissertations.ub.rug.nl/faculties/science/2002/k.sakamoto/

This is very interesting:
http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Cutboard.pdf

So, not a single one of these articles has any indication that a toxin or pathogen can survive in BEER.

Points in your links:
Botulism in Canned Starter Wort - Yep, sugar rich, nonalchol/nonalpha acid environment
Mold/Toxins in Wine - We are not talking about wine here
Mold/Toxins in Gran - "Further investigation" about if it affects finished beer - no proof
The rest of the articles dealt in "Beer Spoilage", not in beer that can harm you.

The REAL point is... hundreds of thousands of gallons of homebrewed beer are produced yearly, and the VAST majority of them were brewed without pre-boil sanitation.

Beer was SAFER than even water to drink for a LONG LONG time because its extreemly difficult for toxins to survive in it. I have NEVER heard of someone dieing from a toxin in beer, outside of alcohol....

While it does not HURT to sanitise PRE boil... it is a commonly held practice that it is unessicary as the 212 degree liquid in the boil kettle is going to do all that needs to be done.

So.. what is not correct... is the statement that there are floaties and nasties preboil that will cause problems in your beer... I do NOT believe that to be correct.

I also ask that you not continue to propogate those kinds of ideas, as they do more to scare off new brewers and perpetuate the myth that brewing will make you blind/sick/deaf/dumb/dead....
 
So, not a single one of these articles has any indication that a toxin or pathogen can survive in BEER.

I know interesting isn't it?
Yet nowhere is there any proof that something can't manage to do just that.
All we have is a compounding of factors which we can say with some measure of confidence do create a hostile milieu for organisms other than members of the Saccharomyces cerevisiae and Saccharomyces carlsbergensis families.

Points in your links:
Botulism in Canned Starter Wort - Yep, sugar rich, nonalchol/nonalpha acid environment
Mold/Toxins in Wine - We are not talking about wine here
Mold/Toxins in Gran - "Further investigation" about if it affects finished beer - no proof
The rest of the articles dealt in "Beer Spoilage",

I can see you were not reading to learn but skimming for specific things you already wanted to say. But that's not a problem. I didn't provide the links to "prove" anything to you. I can't bring myself to imagine that I would ever need to prove anything at all to someone on a chat room on the internet. That would be tragic all by itself. I provided the links merely to provide you and anyone else interested, with some interesting material which might be of some educative benefit.

not in beer that can harm you.

I don't believe I have been discussing a "harm you" scenario much at all in this thread. This is your injection not mine.
But since life and death is so concerning to you there' no reason why your perfectly valid concern about possibly infecting your beer with something that might prove toxic must be ignored. Please do explore that further.
I for one, will be interested in looking at the results of your researching.

The REAL point is

Says who? I mean who are you to be the ONE to determine what the "real" anything is? I am dying to see these credentials.

.. hundreds of thousands of gallons of homebrewed beer are produced yearly, and the VAST majority of them were brewed without pre-boil sanitation.

Yah so, your point? Are you hoping to propose that it is somehow absolute gospel proof of some notion or thesis?

Mind you (on the subject of what constitutes "proof"), gravity is still considered a mere theory in some physicist circles.


Beer was SAFER than even water to drink for a LONG LONG time because its extreemly difficult for toxins to survive in it. ...

Yah this is so.

I have NEVER heard of someone dieing from a toxin in beer, outside of alcohol.
Me neither~!! Hell, I haven't heard of the alcohol death bit from beer either.
However, I am not about to present myself as the Be-All-&-End-All of comprehensive knowledge on the topic. You know the guy who gets to tell other people what to say & think? That Guy? I don't even know how many people died yesterday or what killed them let alone possess such knowledge in intimate detail for all human deaths over all human history.


While it does not HURT to sanitise PRE boil... it is a commonly held practice that it is unessicary as the 212 degree liquid in the boil kettle is going to do all that needs to be done.

There is common practice for one guy and common practice for another.
Are you trying to speak for others? Got a club where a bunch of guys all agree on the topic? What is your authority for trumpeting these conclusory statements?

So.. what is not correct... is the statement that there are floaties and nasties preboil that will cause problems in your beer... I do NOT believe that to be correct.

Oh, I see. Well I am relieved that after all this exercise and exertion that you have finally told it how it is. You have a belief.

I am happy for you, that you have a belief.

I have a belief too. Ain't that grand? We have something in common.
I believe that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.



I also ask that you not continue to propogate those kinds of ideas,

You are no one to be deciding what other people ought or ought not to be saying. But feel free to disabuse me of that notion. Tell me how you are the Be-All-&-End-All. The Grand PoohBah. Mister Know-It-All. I'm eager to be enlightened.


as they do more to scare off new brewers and perpetuate the myth that brewing will make you blind/sick/deaf/dumb/dead....

WOW~!! This is the very first time that any one in this thread mentioned blindness, sickness, deafness, dumbness, or >gasp< deadness.

I am staggerblasted that you are so terrified of this and yet, it took you till now to get it out.

Not for nothing but - - - - how is it that you are able to discern the minds of every one else and know that they are being made to fear these things in such a manner?

Are those the same credentials that allow you to be telling other people what to say and not to say?
 
I don't think we need to write a textbook on whether or not the possibility of a super-infection can occur above boiling temperatures.

I really think that a damn safe way to save $0.25 a batch was all Shake and I were going for.
 
I find it astounding that people think the goal of sanitation in brewing is to avoid pathogens in beer.
 
I really think that a damn safe way to save $0.25 a batch was all Shake and I were going for.

Tell ya what. I'll give ya the $0.25 if you can convince the shake guy to refrain from bossing other people around.


I find it astounding that people think the goal of sanitation in brewing is to avoid pathogens in beer.

Well now, I'm the curious one. What do you do it for, if not to exclude uninvited biological entities?
I am not trying to open the semantic issue of defining pathogens as strictly this or that, but I see any uninvited biological as infection.

Mind you, the word was not uttered by me. I did not bring that word to this dialog.

I said: "I can tell you that I don't know all the things that might get airborne and be bad for beer. "
The hysterical nonsense about making people blind dead dumb and dead all belongs to someone else.
 
I don't have a brutus but hope to some day soon. My question is why would you need to sanitize everything before brewing when it's all being boiled anyway?

I somehow feel that this whole derailment was instigated by my original question.

Even before I brewed my first beer, I had been told by many experienced brewers that sanitizing anything preboil which will be in contact with boiling wort was completely unnecessary and a waste of time. I have since never heard of or read anything to contradict this and in my experience have never witnessed anything to disprove this logic. Post boil/chilled is something completely different though.
 
Well now, I'm the curious one. What do you do it for, if not to exclude uninvited biological entities?
I am not trying to open the semantic issue of defining pathogens as strictly this or that, but I see any uninvited biological as infection.

I sanitize to discourage the growth of beer spoiling organisms. Pathogens are literally (based on etymology) disease causing organisms. As far as I know, no beer spoiling organisms are pathogens or vice versa.
 
Exactly! Unless you are going to sanitize or autoclave your grain prior to mashing, anything else done preboil is unnecessary. The malted grain is full of stuff you don't want living in your beer. Boiling is the step that takes care of it.

I somehow feel that this whole derailment was instigated by my original question.

Even before I brewed my first beer, I had been told by many experienced brewers that sanitizing anything preboil which will be in contact with boiling wort was completely unnecessary and a waste of time. I have since never heard of or read anything to contradict this and in my experience have never witnessed anything to disprove this logic. Post boil/chilled is something completely different though.
 
I sanitize to discourage the growth of beer spoiling organisms. .

Perzakly~!!

If I thought I was dealing with life threatening critters like Botulism I'd be all about pasteurization and canning. Pasteurized and vacuum caned beer anyone?
 
Wow! Not to sure what to say here aside from the fact that I am learning several things especially from the posted links (Thank you Cliff!). My personal take thus far is similar to Cliff's....basically penny wise dollar foolish in respect to sanitizing all the pre-boil equipment. I store all my equipment out in my garage and just feel as though during the equipment downtime it can accumulate some things that could potentially create problems.

~The dollar foolish guy
 
Wow! Not to sure what to say here aside from the fact that I am learning several things especially from the posted links (Thank you Cliff!). My personal take thus far is similar to Cliff's....basically penny wise dollar foolish in respect to sanitizing all the pre-boil equipment. I store all my equipment out in my garage and just feel as though during the equipment downtime it can accumulate some things that could potentially create problems.

~The dollar foolish guy

Go for it man!! You won't hurt anything by doing it.


More importantly to your original question is, run a good cleanser like PWB or OXY in hot water through your brutus after each session and make sure to use sanitiser after the boil. Do those two things and you (and anyone else reading this) will be fine! Augment that process all you what for your own comfort!
 
How do you sanitize your water before you use it? Or your grain?


I sprinkle my water with 0.5 OZ Strontium 90, 5 micron dust. Then I let it soak for three day after which I add half an ounce of Cobalt 60, 5 microns. Soak three more days and then I extract the metals using a 30 thousand RPM centrifuge.
Works great. Any one need some depleted Isotopes?


There is a brewery in Belgium that by law has to chlorinate the water they pump from their own artesian well. That's Europe for ya.
They have to de-chlorinate the water before brewing it.
When I read that I wondered if the law specifically required chlorine or if a UV sterilization protocol might get them compliant as well.

I have a little test under way for crap in beer.
It is the OFFICIAL non definitive, non scientific, but adequately gross test. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/beer-bottle-sanatitation-test-163376/
 
I sprinkle my water with 0.5 OZ Strontium 90, 5 micron dust. Then I let it soak for three day after which I add half an ounce of Cobalt 60, 5 microns. Soak three more days and then I extract the metals using a 30 thousand RPM centrifuge.
Works great. Any one need some depleted Isotopes?

So, you don't bother with the grain?
 
Sourmash my friend, did you send me an email not long ago about writing a sanitizing procedure for Brutus? Man I think you did, or someone did... So sorry I didn't get back to you... Been busy...

So judging by this thread, maybe it is a good thing I didn't! This is beer man... I treat it as such.

Let's start my method from the end of a brew day for reference to the way I do it...

At the end of a brew day I have 11 or so gallons of melted ice water left over from my chill sitting in my HLT. After I have put my wort in the fermentation fridge, I take the hose that discharged the return chill water into the HLT (top lid) and hook it up to the "Wort in" on the Therminator. I turn on both pumps, effectively pumping the melted ice water through every hose, both pumps and the Therminator that I used that day. When the HLT ice water is gone, I unhook all the lines and hang them on my hanger, take off the Therminator and drain it well, and place it in my sub zero deep freezer until the next brew day where it turns into a frosty block of frozen metal.

I clean up the kettle and HLT using water only and usually with that old worn out scotchbrite pad laying in the garage corner with grass and leave clippings on it... I place the pots on Brutus up-side down with the valves half-way open (important!) all ready for next brew day...

On the next brew day I turn the pots over, maybe reach inside and wipe out a small cobweb if need be, fill with my mash water and sparge water and get after it.

I'll take out the frozen block of Therminator, thaw it a bit, flush some garden hose through it and place it into a bucket of star san and let it sit until I need it for chilling in the afternoon... I'll run my boiling wort through it for about 10 minutes before I hit it with the chill water...

Basically that's it. I will take the Therminator and bake it at 500 deg maybe every 5 batches or so, then straight back to the freezer. The last time I ever took my pumps apart they were spotless, so I rarely do that any more...
 
Basically that's it. I will take the Therminator and bake it at 500 deg maybe every 5 batches or so, then straight back to the freezer. The last time I ever took my pumps apart they were spotless, so I rarely do that any more...

A Therminator baker~!! I knew you guys existed~!!
Every time I mentioned baking the plate chiller people looked at me askance.

I'm planning on an electrical version of your brutus.
 
A Therminator baker~!! I knew you guys existed~!!
Every time I mentioned baking the plate chiller people looked at me askance.

I'm planning on an electrical version of your brutus.

It's funny... Years ago it was actually on Blichmann's website that it was ok to bake the Therminator in the oven. I can say that I have probably baked this thing a hundred times. It does not hurt it at all...

I know I laid out a pretty hap-hazard regiment for pre-boil cleaning of my system but that is what I do... I should have mentioned that post boil, I am exacting with the fermentor, (the mash tun) and all post boil processes...
 
It's funny... Years ago it was actually on Blichmann's website that it was ok to bake the Therminator in the oven. I can say that I have probably baked this thing a hundred times. It does not hurt it at all...

Well if it's copper brazed SST plates ( and I think it is) I don't see how baking it can do anything besides peel the PSA label, and clean it up of course.

I know I laid out a pretty hap-hazard regiment for pre-boil cleaning of my system but that is what I do... I should have mentioned that post boil, I am exacting with the fermentor, (the mash tun) and all post boil processes...

I recall from your U tube video, your fermenter was a sanke keg in a glass door fridge. Still doing it that way?

Many things thing I do are sort of hap hazard.
I brewed an ale the other day with more than 6 hops and about that many malts and I just sort of added 'em as it seemed to fit the moment. Oh some of that ~ ~ ~ yah seems like a good idea. I recall on the spur of the moment I decided that some oatmeal sounded nice. And after that wacky compilation I ended up adhering to a very strict mashing protocol - and timed my hop additions to the minute: something I almost never do.
It's fermenting now and smells great.

Hap hazard can be a good thing.
 
Sourmash my friend, did you send me an email not long ago about writing a sanitizing procedure for Brutus? Man I think you did, or someone did... So sorry I didn't get back to you... Been busy...
Yeah that was me. No worries! I know busy.......2 jobs, young kids, hobby, farm, wife, etc... somewhere in there I manage to fit in brewing.
Regardless of how different everyone's cleaning method is, it's great to hear. Real world case histories is what I'm looking for and obviously you have plenty of that through your system. This is the info I am looking for! You have probably have learned some things along the way and its great to hear them.
I also really dig hearing all the unique things that people are doing such as your plate chiller maintenance. Great stuff.

I jumped into brewing not to long ago.....I share a story similar to the HBT member Lehr, where I watched someone brew beer (Alton Brown) and wanted in. One thing that bothers me to no end is building something and wishing I had done it differently down the road. Therefore I had the resources to make a Brutus, therefore I did. Basically the cart is way out in front of the horse! So I am still learning a ton on a daily basis. It now seems to me after this thread that I was "scared" about being sanitary beyond what I actually need to be. To be honest though, I would rather have it that way than the other and spoil my first couple of batches.

Keep the suggestions coming.
 
"Even if boiling doesn't kill everything, it still does more than star san."

Um, no, that is not accurate. In solution, Star San is a Mod 5 killer in 90 seconds (that's 99.999% for those of you in Rio Linda).

Water boils at a temperature range, depending upon altitude and other factors. Contact time with CONINTUOUSLY boiling water is in excess of 10 minutes for a lesser kill and there are bacteria that live near VOLCANIC VENTS in the ocean floor. How, exactly, do you keep 5 gallons of water at a continuous boil in your fermenter, conical, tubing, etc for 10+ minutes? Hot water is not all its cracked up to be, mate. Remember, this is your BEER we're talking about here.

"Boiling in water for fifteen minutes will kill most vegetative bacteria and inactivate viruses, but boiling is ineffective against prions and many bacterial and fungal spores"
 
Water boils at a temperature range, depending upon altitude and other factors. Contact time with CONINTUOUSLY boiling water is in excess of 10 minutes for a Mod 3 kill and there are bacteria that live near VOLCANIC VENTS in the ocean floor. How, exactly, do you keep 5 gallons of water at a continuous boil in your fermenter, conical, tubing, etc? Hot water is not all its cracked up to be, mate. for 10+ minutes

Are you from 5star? That would be cool...

Anyway, the fact that star san is actually more effective is good info. It doesn't really change anything to the topic at hand, but it is good to know I was incorrect.

Since star san sanitizes, and pressure cookers sterilize (which I believe to be more effective), is all the difference really made in the ~30deg differential between water under pressure boiling vs non-pressure?

Oh, and does Mod 3 mean 99.9% effective? I think that is good enough for me...
 
"Even if boiling doesn't kill everything, it still does more than star san."

Um, no, that is not accurate. In solution, Star San is a Mod 5 killer in 90 seconds (that's 99.999% for those of you in Rio Linda).

Water boils at a temperature range, depending upon altitude and other factors. Contact time with CONINTUOUSLY boiling water is in excess of 10 minutes for a lesser kill and there are bacteria that live near VOLCANIC VENTS in the ocean floor. How, exactly, do you keep 5 gallons of water at a continuous boil in your fermenter, conical, tubing, etc for 10+ minutes? Hot water is not all its cracked up to be, mate. Remember, this is your BEER we're talking about here.

"Boiling in water for fifteen minutes will kill most vegetative bacteria and inactivate viruses, but boiling is ineffective against prions and many bacterial and fungal spores"

I guess its a good thing that we ALL recommend sanitizing everything post boil then... i.e. tubing, fermenters, conicals, etc....
 
Yes, there is lots of valid information and perspective on both sides of the debate on this thread. It is true that a great deal of effort to sanitize may be 'overkill'. Most troops in the field today will not have their bullet-proof flak vests tested, but I wouldn't be seen strutting around without mine on in the field, either.

While any brewer's level of diligence (obsession?) is a personal matter, it is also well known and well written about that when beer creation fails it is usually due to an infection which usually results from some glitch in the cleaning & sanitation routines on the equipment involved. That being the case, a little 'over kill' is always celebrated with a good cold mug of your best.

Yes, the logo on my khaki's is Five Star and,

Remember, its the one you didn't hear coming that got ya. :mug:

Are you from 5star? That would be cool...

Anyway, the fact that star san is actually more effective is good info. It doesn't really change anything to the topic at hand, but it is good to know I was incorrect.

Since star san sanitizes, and pressure cookers sterilize (which I believe to be more effective), is all the difference really made in the ~30deg differential between water under pressure boiling vs non-pressure?

Oh, and does Mod 3 mean 99.9% effective? I think that is good enough for me...
 
Yes, the logo on my khaki's is Five Star and,

Remember, its the one you didn't hear coming that got ya. :mug:

Fair enough. Still waiting for that first infection, surprised I made it through college without one.

Good to have you on here, don't be a stranger to this subforum especially! :mug:
 
i appologize if this has been covered already. but i do have a suggestion for sanatizing, pre boil. I sanatize the output of my boil kettle. when the wort leaves through the valve, it is chilled because i use an immersion chiller. nasty stuff can hid in the valve on the BK and the piping afterwards, so i clean everything thoughroughly before storage, but sanatize the ouput of the bk, including valve.
 
Lonnie,

You mentioned to store kettles with valves 1/2 open. What is the purpose for this?

Thanks

I found this out the hard way. Because storing them closed can form a nice little incubator where something tiny can blossom into something not so tiny. A proper post-brew cleanup should take care of this, but on one brew session a while back (the previous brew session having gone long, involved plenty of beer, and cleanup afterwards was sloppy) I got everything going, and fired up the pumps to begin recirculating my water, and *plunk* something that looked like an old soggy mushroom spurted forth from my input into the kettle.

Thankfully all I wasted was strike water (although I use RO water, so it wasn't free) and some time...
 
Ha! I always seem to miss this thread when it comes up...

So below you can see a typical ball valve. Behind the seals of the ball is a lot of entrapment areas. A lot! Throughout the brew day this area is filled every time you open or close the valve as just a slight opening will expose the dark side. When my brew day is done, I blast water through the valve while working it from half way open to opened and closed. Then I store it half way open to expose this area to dry... I have never had a problem with these valves as most don't. But it is good info to keep in mind when using these types of valves.

Seccion_valvula_de_bola.jpg
 
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