WLP645 Brett claussenii Pitching rate

I'm looking to do an all Brett brew in the next couple months, and I am wondering if there is any difference in pitching rates? Or can I make a standard starter, or should I plan on stepping up a starter to pitch at a 2X rate?

I plan on doing a standard 6 gallon batch.

In case any one is Interested I did a little snooping and found this page:

The Brettanomyces Masters Project

And it looks like he pitched at 1.6x10^6 cells/ml x ºPlato

I recently did a a 100% Brett B with Saison wort. I didn't do cell counts but I made a 4qt starter over a week ahead of time, let it ferment (took a few days to get going, don't freak out), and then cold crashed and pitched. It made quite a big cake and was fermenting within a day or so, it's now been a month and it's sitting about 1.010 down from 1.056.

Thanks for the Info, I read some of your posts on another thread,"The Minstrel - A crazy, funky 100% brett fermented beer" They where vary helpful. I've only used brett in the secondary with a sour, and I did not make a starter for that.

I fairly stoked to get this started, but It is in the back of the line right now, so hopefully I can brew it in November.

Hey Bsquared,

In the Brewing industry there are set standards of what pitch counts should be for ale and lager brews... well that is in the books you can read at least. In the industry its done by weight harvested and is what works for the brewery.. often more around .75x10^6 cells/ml per Degree Plato. I looked at three different pitch rates for Brettanomyces during my research. Biochemically the organism acts differently then Saccharomyces cer. so it can't be thought of in the same way, well not exactly. While a higher pith count on Sacch species could mean off flavors and a lower pitch count the same or a beer which doesn't finish, with Brettanmyces it's different as there is no standard fermentation. What flavors are you looking for and what pitchrate is going to get you those flavors? Also in homebrewing it can often be good to pitch 1.5 times the "standard" pitchrate as the yeast are at a different acclimation point due to mechanisms of fermentation used (fermenter size, shape, head pressure, ect...)

To get to answering your question I would recommend 2x10^6 cells/ml per degree Plato, or even slightly higher. The higher the cell count the more flavors which were produced and the better the fermentation profile. I assume your looking for the Brett flavors so a higher pitch rate appears to achieve these slightly better.
As for propagating, grow the Bretta up in a 1.048 of 12 Plato starter for at least a week to get your cells growing and built up to a level which allows them to sustain activity for the length of fermentation you require..

Final word of advice, use a different Brettanomyces strains also. Why just one? I would recommend B. lambicus from Wyeast... as a good Brett strain too. I have some strains I could send you if your interested which are not commercially available.

Chad

Hi Chad-

Thanks a lot for the Info, I made this beer last weekend and used your on line thesis as a reference in determining what my pitching rate should be.

I did a two step starter and estimate I pitched ~1e6 cells/ml per degree Plato, so a bit shy of what you recommend. The beer quickly took off and I had a strong fermentation going for the last week, fermenting at 68ºF. I was looking to get the pineapple aroma that Brett.C can impart, but so far I'm not picking that up. It's got some good funk about it, and tastes good, but its not what I was looking to get.

I'm planing on doing a a triple in two weeks and pitch it from the slurry of this batch, do you have any recommendations for fermentation temps, pitching rates or what other strains I should pitch with the slurry to help get the pineapple/tropical fruit aroma out of the brett.c?

Thanks for the offer for the non-commercial strains, that vary generous of you. I'm not to sure how far I plan on going down the Brett brewing trail.I guess I'll see if I get some good results in the next few batches.

best of luck on the masters !
B^2

As far as fermentation temps go, if 68 is working for you then that's a nice temp, I usually stuck around 70-72 as it seemed to keep a stable fermentation going. Getting the pineapple aromas I believe takes some time in maturing the beer. I did find the Wyeats VSS B. claussenii to a be slightly fruity strain also so you could try pitching that in with you next triple. Allow the beer to sit on the yeast for a good month or longer... brett works very slow when making/creating those finer aromas often described as floral/fruity. They also come from some of the esters created from acids which become present (slowly hopefully). So time is an important factor I would say, as is ingredients. Stay away from over powering the beer with hops, while a light citrus could always be complementive also.. Give the beer enough body to make sure the brett doesn't create a flabby beer as it often does, but I would stay away from some of the crystal type malts also or atleast use them very lightly maybe munich or vienna and some Carapils or even a slight honey malt can help bring out some nice aromas when used in conjunction with brett strains. Hope this gives you some ideas

Cheers,
Chad

Chad - Thanks for all the great info... I have been trying to find information for making my first 100% Brett beer and your site and threads have been the most useul.

So I'm reading this thread after already making my wort (5 Kg Pilsner Malt, 0.5 Kg Unmalted Wheat) and I have a package of Brett B. (Wyeast 5112) to pitch with. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to grow it up and so I will pitch this package. Do you think this will be a problem? Also, how can I tell how many cells/ml I have without lab equipment?

Thanks

Chad - Thanks for all the great info... I have been trying to find information for making my first 100% Brett beer and your site and threads have been the most useful.

So I'm reading this thread after already making my wort (5 Kg Pilsner Malt, 0.5 Kg Unmalted Wheat) and I have a package of Brett B. (Wyeast 5112) to pitch with. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to grow it up and so I will pitch this package. Do you think this will be a problem? Also, how can I tell how many cells/ml I have without lab equipment?

Thanks

Wyeast has some great resources too for yeast question. I like this page regarding pitching rates, at the bottom of the page there is a good picture of how you can estimate yeast counts by the percent of yeast in a slurry, this way you can estimate your yeast count with out a microscope.

Thanks Bsquared... it's easy to overlook the obvious when it comes to information about yeast... the yeast companies themselves