Yeast Starter Vessels

I did a Mr Malty Pitching calculation for my next brew (first time using Mr Malty ). It recommends 1.2L for a starter. I only have a 1L flask, and I typically do starters at 16 ounces. I am using White Labs WLP 002 Ale yeast for an 1.046 target OG.

I read a few threads about yeast starters, and there was some discussion about alternative vessels to use, including a 2L soda bottle. But there wan't much talk about specifics (in what I read) I was thinking something like this:

1. Make two batches in my flasks and transfer those 2 batches (for a total of 1.2L) into a 2L empty soda bottle. (Which, of course will be cleaned with Oxyclean, and sanitized with Starsan).

2. Cover and cool. Pitch the yeast.

3. Cover with a balloon to allow gas to escape.

First, does this sound reasonable? Second, if this is reasonable, is there anything I should be aware of? If it is not reasonable, does anyone have suggestions?

I appreciate your help.

I use growlers to make starters all the time.

Tonedef131 said:

I use growlers to make starters all the time.

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Hm, like in a microwave?:cross:

Unless the starter can fit in my 1L flask, I ferment my starters in growlers but I boil in a saucepan on the stove.

Hmm, boiling in a sauce pan does seem like a more rational idea than using my flask twice. Good idea there, thanks.

But, I don't have a growler. Any other suggestions, or will my soda bottle idea work well?

I just made my first starter. I used my old MrBeer keg stood on it's end. It has a handy spigot for yaking a hydro reading without too much fuss.

If you start far enough in advance its simple to make a huge starter in a 1L. Make your starter normally. After 24 hours place it in the fridge to settle. Once settled, pour of the beer and add fresh wort (this is called stepping up). mix well and allow it to ferment again. Repeat refrigeration and stepping up 3-4 times. You now have a huge starter in a small flask.
To answer the original question, yes soda bottles will work, but not on a stirplate.

Yeah, you can make a starter in anything sanitary. make a 1 liter starter, decant and then feed it again. That would work.

I used an old empty vodka bottle one time...

beerthirty said:

If you start far enough in advance its simple to make a huge starter in a 1L. Make your starter normally. After 24 hours place it in the fridge to settle. Once settled, pour of the beer and add fresh wort (this is called stepping up). mix well and allow it to ferment again. Repeat refrigeration and stepping up 3-4 times. You now have a huge starter in a small flask.
To answer the original question, yes soda bottles will work, but not on a stirplate.

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That is a great idea too
Let me see if I understand you correctly.
1. Make the typical starter in my 1L flask (my recipe calls for 16 ounces water and 1/2 cup Dry Malt Extract.
2. Let it ferment for 24 hours or so, then chill it until the yeast settles.
3. Make another batch of 16 ounces water and 1/2 cup DME.
4. Decant off the water (beer) portion, leaving the sediment in the flask.
5. Warm up the yeasties in the flask while cooling down the newly made "sugar water". Then, add this new batch of "sugar water" to the flask.
6. Repeat, starting at step 2, until I have made 2 batches (this should be enough yeast for the "1.2 L starter" I need). OR, should I do it three times to make sure I have a high amount of yeast? (I don't want to overpitch).

I just want to be clear about this, sorry if these are n00bish questions. Again, I appreciate your help and advice.

I wouldn't warm up the yeasties. Are you lagering or doing an ale?

Doing an ale.

By warming up, I was referring to getting the refridgerated yeast close to the same temperature as the "wort" to pitch them. Basically, room temperature for the yeast and <80 degrees for the wort.

Why would you have them in hte fridge. I usually do starters on my countertop at normal ale temperatures. Yeah, I store my yeast in the fridge but the starter is at your brewing temp. You shouldn't have to warm it up after it's been fermenting. It wont ferment in the fridge anyways.

I am referring to beerthirty's advice about stepping up. His suggestion was to ferment for 24 hours, then put the flask in the fridge to flocculate the yeast, decant off the liquid, then add more wort (and repeat).

OH! That makes alot more sense. Sorry about the confusion! Yeah, you'd definately want to bring those yeasties up to room temp. Looks like you've got all of this under control.

Thanks man.

1 more question. Mr. Malty tells me I need a 1.2L starter. Should I "step up" 2 or 3 times (about 1L per "step")? I assume 3 times would be fine and not worrying about overpitching.

Well, if you decant and brew another 16 oz ontop of hte 1L size yeast cake you'll have a 1.5L yeast cake. that's all that I would do. I'm sure you'll be fine with that.

Sweet man. I appreciate your help. Cheers.

I use a 1qt Mason Jar for my starters, which is the same jar I keep my washed yeast in. I do 2 cups water to 1/2 cup light DME, boil for 10 mins with some hops. Decant the liquid off of my washed yeast and pour the cooled starter on top of it.Mix it up real well and that makes a 1 pint starter. I do this the day before I'm going to brew and let it work at room temp overnight,then I pitch the whole thing into my wort. Works well for me.

beerthirty said:

If you start far enough in advance its simple to make a huge starter in a 1L. Make your starter normally. After 24 hours place it in the fridge to settle. Once settled, pour of the beer and add fresh wort (this is called stepping up). mix well and allow it to ferment again. Repeat refrigeration and stepping up 3-4 times. You now have a huge starter in a small flask.
To answer the original question, yes soda bottles will work, but not on a stirplate.

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I have a question about that....

I've been reading about yeast washing and such... if I built up a big starter like you desribe, why wouldn't I pour some of it back into the vial it came in (sterilized of course) and put it back in the fridge and then pitch the rest?

You could, or you could wash the cake after fermentation and keep much more. When I wash the cake I end up with so much yeast no starter is needed next time just decant and pitch the mason jar of washed yeast. I normally get 2-5 mason jars 1/2 full when washing the yeast cake.

Not sure if this help you or not, but here is a pic of a starter I did about 6 hours ago

I do my starters in a big growler or big beer bottle...with one of those snorkel-type airlocks with stopper. I don't step it up though...but I get quick starts.

Yankeehillbrewer said:

I use a 1qt Mason Jar for my starters, which is the same jar I keep my washed yeast in. I do 2 cups water to 1/2 cup light DME, boil for 10 mins with some hops. Decant the liquid off of my washed yeast and pour the cooled starter on top of it.Mix it up real well and that makes a 1 pint starter. I do this the day before I'm going to brew and let it work at room temp overnight,then I pitch the whole thing into my wort. Works well for me.

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I'm not sure you read the thread. The question is not how to make a normal starter, the OP knows that, he wants to know to how to make a bigger starter.

Stepping up is definitely the way to go if you don't have a larger vessel. BUT, larger vessels are pretty easy to come by. When I did my last apfelwein the apple juice bottles were an unusually stiff and flat bottomed plastic. I would feel totally comfortable doing up to a 1 gallon starter in one of those.

That's a great idea, using an apply juice bottle. I'll keep that in mind if I need to brew a high gravity ale or lager. What do you use for a cap/airlock?

I decided to step up. 2 batches at 24 ounces should do the trick. I need 1.2 Liters. Currently, my yeast is happily bubbling away in my flask.

Thanks guys!

reim0027 said:

That's a great idea, using an apply juice bottle. I'll keep that in mind if I need to brew a high gravity ale or lager. What do you use for a cap/airlock?

I decided to step up. 2 batches at 24 ounces should do the trick. I need 1.2 Liters. Currently, my yeast is happily bubbling away in my flask.

Thanks guys!

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I have done two things for air release. The one I use the most is just leave the cap loose and then drape a starsan soaked cloth over the top. This will still allow the necessary oxygen into the bottle while scrubbing the air a touch.

The other, which I used only once, was to worm a hole through the cap and put an airlock into it.

That's close to that I did for my flask! I used saran wrap with a small hole, then placed a starsan soaked paper towel over it.

dontman said:

I'm not sure you read the thread. The question is not how to make a normal starter, the OP knows that, he wants to know to how to make a bigger starter.

Stepping up is definitely the way to go if you don't have a larger vessel. BUT, larger vessels are pretty easy to come by. When I did my last apfelwein the apple juice bottles were an unusually stiff and flat bottomed plastic. I would feel totally comfortable doing up to a 1 gallon starter in one of those.

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Actually the thread is about the vessel used to make the starter. I gave my example in the first line of my answer. There was/is additional talk in thread about the size of the starter, which I tried to point out I use a 1 pint starter and don't see the need to step up. I suppose i should have been a little more direct in my answers and not included too much info.

My sincerest apologies

Duckfoot said:

I used an old empty vodka bottle one time...

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This is my first yeast ...

In the process of making a 1L starter using this method with 1.75 L glass Absolut bottle and flat bottom...hope it works out. Using the "swirl when I walk past it" method. Should I continue to swirl until I see a the cake form? (About 8hrs in)

Keep swirling until you are ready to pitch to max your oxygen content in the wort.