Weizen, hefe???? need some schooling

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Ol' Grog

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I guess I'm getting the hefe's and Weizen's confused. I brewed a kit Weizen from Brewers Best, and it was by far, my favorite. I think I'm about done with kits as I've narrowed it down to a couple of styles I and the Mrs. like.
However, I was looking at recipes here and there seems to be a difference, I tought they were all the same.
My kit weizen came with 6.6 LBS of wheat LME. I going to make a supply "beer" run to my LHBS and want to get some ingredients in bulk. I prefer DME. Can I make a good Weizen with DME?? I used Muntons dry yeast and it got pretty active in the primary. Any suggestions on the yeast?
What about grains? There were none in the kit for this particular style, is that the norm for Weizens?
 
Weizen or weisse beers use wheat malt. The wheat extract is a combo of barley and wheat. Hefe in the name refers to the yeast that makes it cloudy. If you didn't use any wheat, you wouldn't have a weizen. If you filter out the yeast so it's clear, you'd have Kristal Weizen. Where's HB 99? Paging HB Bill...:p
 
A Hefeweizen is at least 50% malted wheat by definition, and is usually around 50/50 to 60/40 malted wheat to malted barley. Wheat DME is also usually around 50/50 to 60/40 wheat to barley so it is perfect for making a Hefeweizen and does not require any additional grains.

I don't know of a suitable dry yeast for making a Hefeweizen though it may exist. All of the strains I'm familiar with are liquid, such as Wyeast 3068. The Muntons dry yeast is a regular ale yeast and you would have made just a wheat beer with that, not a Hefeweizen.
 
As far as the kit goes, the grain bill for a hefeweizen is very simple, with no crystal malts. An all grain brew can use just wheat malt and 2-row. The wheat extract is already a ratio of wheat and barley malt extracts, usually 50/50 or 60/40 wheat to barley, which makes it perfect for the hefeweizen without having to add anything but hops.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
A Hefeweizen is at least 50% malted wheat by definition, and is usually around 50/50 to 60/40 malted wheat to malted barley. Wheat DME is also usually around 50/50 to 60/40 wheat to barley so it is perfect for making a Hefeweizen and does not require any additional grains.
Brewsmith said:
As far as the kit goes, the grain bill for a hefeweizen is very simple, with no crystal malts. An all grain brew can use just wheat malt and 2-row. The wheat extract is already a ratio of wheat and barley malt extracts, usually 50/50 or 60/40 wheat to barley, which makes it perfect for the hefeweizen without having to add anything but hops.
That's a little scary how close these two paragraphs are! :p
 
A dried yeast for wheat ales.

Doric (wheat) (11 grams): This Canadian all-purpose yeast may be used in both ales & lagers, but works best in wheat beers. A quick starter but ferments slowly to produce a clean brew with complex flavor.

Midwest sells it with a hefeweizen kit. Haven't tried it, don't really like wheats.
 
OK, I'm here.:D

I do not disagree with anyone's comments so far. So they all are telling you the truth.:D

I lived in Germany for 9 years. I prefer German Hefe Weizens. The malt bill is much like you stated earlier. No problem there. The problem starts with your yeast.

It was mentioned by one of the other guys that you can't make a weizen with a dry yeast. I agree...it's not true to style - it's important to me that a beer is within style. If not then you are just making a wheat beer, not a "Hefe Weizen". (One of my peeves).:rockin:

In my mind a Hefe Weizen is a German ale that uses a German Weizen yeast (hefe). If you use anything other than that then you are just making a wheat beer. It PMO when Americans to call it a Weizen...it's a wheat beer!

For a true HW you need to use a German Weizen Yeast...pure and simple. Without it you cannot duplicate the subtle and not so subtle (sweet, tart, banana, etc.) flavors of a true Weizen beer.

I have used all of the true German yeasts. I prefer some over others. I mostly use WLP351, but it is only available in July and Aug...so I wash mine and reuse it many times. I also like the smak-pak Weihenstephan...I think that's 3058 as well as WLP300.

Always make a starter one to several days before you brew. If your yeast is not ready how can you expect your beer to be?

Did I answer your questions to your expectations?

I'm leaving work now so I can get back to this thread in a couple of hours...stopping off to try some pub Pumpkin beer...:mug:
 
I'm with Homebrewer_99 on Weizen beer. Hefeweizen that is.

I used Wyeast's Weihenstephan 3068 and it made this lovely nectar of the gods.

FrirstHefe.jpg


I lived in Germany for 5 years and I travel back several times a year, so I'm partial to the German Hefeweizen or Weissbiers.

If you like German hefe's stick with German yeast. You can't go wrong.
 
I'll have to post a pic of mine when I get home. It's just about carbed up now, maybe another day or two.
 
I've managed to get the flavors pretty much where I want them, but I've never managed to duplicate the color of a Weihenstephan. Maybe it's not a big deal. I'm wondering if they don't use a different base malt than what I get at my LHBS.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
That's a good looking beer!

Thanks. I'm down to rationing the keg now. My next batch will be kegged and on CO2 the day I leave for Munich & Shannon for two weeks. It will be ready to drink when I get home. :D

Man, this is so tasty, if there was ever a good reason to start brewing 10 gallon batches, this beer is it for me.
 
I've got a bottle of Schneider Weisse and Hopf Helle Weisse at hone too. I'll have to do a side by side by side comparison soon.
 
Brewsmith said:
I've got a bottle of Schneider Weisse and Hopf Helle Weisse at hone too. I'll have to do a side by side by side comparison soon.
Sounds like a plan. I'm going to bring back a bottle of Weihenstephan Weisse (or two) from Freising (home of the oldest brewery in the world) in a few weeks.

Here's another popular weisse from Bavaria I enjoyed this summer in Freising.

HuberWeisse.jpg
 
homebrewer_99 said:
Here's mine BEFORE and AFTER pouring in the hefe...

You have to pour in the hefe to get the cloudiness...

Looking good! Hmmm Good.

Here's an Erdinger Dunkleweizen at the Brewery this summer. I have the good fortune to work for a company that has the German office across the street and since I happen to speak German, I tend to get to head over for work a few times a year.

ErdingerDunkel.jpg


My client who lives in Freising has a good friend at the Erdinger Brewery and arranged for a private tour. It was pretty sweet. They start it out with full size samples of every beer.

ErdingerBrewery.jpg
 
My hefe went from crappy to fantastic. I'm on my thrid tonight and it's yummerific. I think it could benefit ffrom a late addition DME add next time, but it's not too shabby now.
 
homebrewer_99 said:
OK, I'm here.:D

It was mentioned by one of the other guys that you can't make a weizen with a dry yeast. I agree...it's not true to style - it's important to me that a beer is within style. If not then you are just making a wheat beer, not a "Hefe Weizen". (One of my peeves).:rockin:

In my mind a Hefe Weizen is a German ale that uses a German Weizen yeast (hefe). If you use anything other than that then you are just making a wheat beer. It PMO when Americans to call it a Weizen...it's a wheat beer!

For a true HW you need to use a German Weizen Yeast...pure and simple. Without it you cannot duplicate the subtle and not so subtle (sweet, tart, banana, etc.) flavors of a true Weizen beer.

I have used all of the true German yeasts. I prefer some over others. I mostly use WLP351, but it is only available in July and Aug...so I wash mine and reuse it many times. I also like the smak-pak Weihenstephan...I think that's 3058 as well as WLP300.

Always make a starter one to several days before you brew. If your yeast is not ready how can you expect your beer to be?

So, then exactly what was this brew I made from the kit then? It used dry yeast, so technically it wasn't a Weizen. WTF is it? I know it was pretty dang good! Boy, here I am thinking that all DME is the same.....:confused:
Does wheat DME have a lot of fermentables in it because I dang near needed a blow off tube.
 
What you made, IMO, is a wheat beer since your malt was wheat and your yeast was a dry ale yeast.:D

No, wheat doesn't have more fermentables than barley.

Next time just use a German Weizen yeast and you'll make a Hefe Weizen. Be sure to make a starter.:D
 
So, what I'm liking is a wheat beer, not a weizen or hefe...OK, got that. Wonder why in the hell does the kit way it's a "Full Bodied Weizenbier" play on words perhaps?????????????
 
Ol' Grog said:
So, what I'm liking is a wheat beer, not a weizen or hefe...OK, got that. Wonder why in the hell does the kit way it's a "Full Bodied Weizenbier" play on words perhaps?????????????

This is the same style of marketing BS that confuses people when they think they're buying a genuine pilsener kit and it shows up with a package of ale yeast, a load of sugar and instructions to ferment at room temperature and bottle two weeks later.

At least now you know what you've actually brewed!
 
Ol' Grog said:
So, what I'm liking is a wheat beer, not a weizen or hefe...OK, got that. Wonder why in the hell does the kit way it's a "Full Bodied Weizenbier" play on words perhaps?????????????

Weizen is the German word for "wheat". That much is true.

Like Mickey said...it's a marketing ploy...not as much as a play on words, but, in this case, a misleading translation.

Unfortunately, unless it comes with a German yeast it's not really a weizen...like I stated earlier...it's an American Wheat.:(
 
Oh GREAT!!! So my Continental Pilsner from BB wasn't a Pilsner at all? OK, so, just what the hell have I been drinking all this time? The same thing, an ale, just different variations? Maybe that is why I think they all kind of taste the same. Boy, this is like finding out your ex-wife just went gay.

These are all the ones that I have brewed. All BB kits. Is there any here that ARE TRUE TO FORM? I guess I'm getting a little PO'ed here because like I said, what the hell have I been brewing all this time? I'm really losing faith here.......

AMERICAN AMBER*
Hop IBUs: 20 - 25
INGREDIENTS:
3.3 lbs. Plain Amber Malt Extract
2 lbs. Plain Amber Dry Malt Extract
8 oz. Crushed Crystal Malt 60L
1 each Grain Steeping Bag
1 oz. Willamette Hops (Bittering)
1 oz. Willamette Hops (Finishing)
1 each Beer Yeast, Nottinghams dry
Tap for wort. Bottled, tap and baby water for finishing
CONTINENTAL PILSNER
Hop IBUs: 30 - 40
INGREDIENTS:
3.3 lbs. Plain Light Malt Extract
2 lbs. Plain Light Dry Malt Extract
12 oz. Crushed Carapils Malt
1 each Grain Steeping Bags
1 oz. Perle Hops (Bittering)
1 oz. Saaz Hops (Finishing)
1 each Beer Yeast, Nottinghams dry
Tap for wort. Ozarka Spring water for finishing
FULL-BODIED WEIZENBIER*
Hop IBUs: 10 - 15
INGREDIENTS:
6.6 lbs. Plain Wheat Malt Extract
1 oz. Hallertau Hops (Bittering)
1/2 oz. Hallertau Hops (Finishing)
1 each Beer Yeast, Muntons dry
Tap for wort. Ozarka Spring water for finishing. High krauzen.
AMERICAN MICRO STYLE PALE ALE*
Hop IBUs: 40 - 60
INGREDIENTS:
6.6 lbs. Plain Light Malt Extract
12 oz. Crushed Crystal Malt 60L
1 each Grain Steeping Bag
1 1/2 oz. Northern Brewer Hops (Bittering)
1 1/2 oz. Willamette Hops (Finishing)
1 each Beer Yeast, Muntons dry
Tap for wort. Tap for finishing.
40 minute boil, 10 minute finishing. High krauzen.
STEAM-STYLE BEER*
Hop IBUs: 35 - 45
INGREDIENTS:
6.6 lbs. Plain Light Malt Extract
8 oz. Crushed Crystal Malt 20L
1 oz. Northern Brewer Hops (Bittering)
1 oz. Northern Brewer Hops (Finishing)
1 each Grain Steeping Bag
1 each Beer Yeast, Muntons dry
Tap for wort. Tap for finishing.
40 minute boil, 10 minute finishing.
 
Well, at least it's not your present wife....calm down a bit.:D

Let me try to answer your questions. I'm sure others will chime in also.

AMERICAN AMBER - Yep, amber malt in there...American hops...British yeast...close...

CONTINENTAL PILSNER - (always a fun one to interpret) - Light Malts, OK...German and Czech hops...and British yeast again...yep, it's Continental alright...Europe...(same yeast as your American Amber - probably the reason they taste similar).

FULL-BODIED WEIZENBIER - All the right ingredients except for the yeast.

AMERICAN MICRO STYLE PALE ALE - Light malts, American hops, high AA%,...
what I consider a generic yeast. OK.

STEAM-STYLE BEER - All the right ingredients except you're making an ale and should be using a lager yeast at ale temps.

The key ingredient is the yeast. Make sure you get/use the proper yeast for the style. While dry yeasts are convenient, liquid yeast are made from specific strains for the style. You can't go wrong using them...Kind of a generic term, but also ideal.:D
 
Dry yeasts are cheap and convenient, all of which help attract new customers and send them down the path to enlightment and more expensive ingredients such as liquid yeast and steeping grains. As long as you like the beer there's really nothing to be upset about. Once you've got your process down and feel good about it you can start trying some more "intermediate" techniques/recipes, but it doesn't mean you'll like them any more or less than what you're doing now (taste being subjective and all).
 
Thanks....
Boy....Some things answered. The first two were WAY similar, yeast you say. Didn't really think yeast made all that much of a difference. I likened it to you are what you eat, and if you eat different stuff, so the yeast would excrete a different
flavor because the ingredients were a little different. Not true.
On the Steam style, wonder why they didn't put a dry lager yeast in there? Surely it couldn't have cost that much more.
You know another question comes to mind. All the extracts weigh in at 6.6 lbs, even if you take the conversion of the DME added with LME, it still comes out to 6.6 Is that the holy grail amount for extracts? What stops you from increasing that amount? Would that be too much fermentables?
If I changed the yeast, as suggested throughout this forum, would I now need to start thinking about blowoff tubes? Is this stuff going to go ape$hit?
 
"CONTINENTAL PILSNER
Hop IBUs: 30 - 40
INGREDIENTS:
3.3 lbs. Plain Light Malt Extract
2 lbs. Plain Light Dry Malt Extract
12 oz. Crushed Carapils Malt
1 each Grain Steeping Bags
1 oz. Perle Hops (Bittering)
1 oz. Saaz Hops (Finishing)
1 each Beer Yeast, Nottinghams dry
Tap for wort. Ozarka Spring water for finishing"

That's not a Pilsener or a Pilsner or a Pils because of the yeast and associated fermentation temps. It's too light and got thte wrong hop profile to be a British or US pale ale. Could have been a Koelsch with a different yeast. Not sure what style it is...........:mug:
 
Ol' Grog said:
All the extracts weigh in at 6.6 lbs, even if you take the conversion of the DME added with LME, it still comes out to 6.6 Is that the holy grail amount for extracts? What stops you from increasing that amount? Would that be too much fermentables?
Many extract producers are not in this country, and so use the metric system. One can is 3.3 lbs, but it's exactly 1.5 kg, and two cans even makes a good average gravity beer, hence 6.6 lbs. If you were anywhere but here, the recipe would be 3 kg of extract. American producers often use just 3 lb. bags, so there is slightly less in the package.

As far as increasing the amount, you can. You end up with higher gravity, stronger beer. However, you then need to add more hops to balance out the malt. A weizenbock is a stronger version of weizen beers.
 
Can anyone suggest a good way to filter out the yeast to make a Kristal Weitzen?
 
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