Brett Saison tastes like feet

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philiphirz

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About 4 1/2 months ago I brewed a saison using WLP568 which is the blend of belgian yeast and a belgian saison strain. The saison recipe was pretty straightforward with a gravity of 1.060 made up of 75% belgian pilsener malt, 17% munich malt, and 8% wheat malt. After it fermented for about 2 weeks, down to about 1.010, I moved it to secondary in a 5 gallon better bottle. Initially the beer smelled really good with a distinct spicy yeast character. I also tasted some and was excited about the prospects.

In secondary I pitched a vial of ECY04 - the now discontinued Brett blend. I let it sit in secondary for a little over 3 months with the hopes that it would develop some interesting Brett character. After 3 months the gravity had barely moved - maybe only down a point or two - and I never really saw signs of Brett activity and didn't really notice any Brett character. The smell was still good and so was the flavor. I decided I wanted to repurpose that carboy for a sour with ECY01 so I kegged the Brett saison a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to shoot for pretty high carbonation so I set the regulator for 25 psi at 42 degrees F thinking that I would be in the neighborhood of about 3.5 volumes of C02.

Tonight I finally kicked one of my kegs and I tapped the saison. The flavor was totally disappointing and tasted somewhere between sour apple juice and smelly feet. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Do you think I should let it ride for a few more months to see if the Brett changes the character? Do you think that the carbonation is just too high and it is accenting some strange flavors and adding too much acidity from the carbonic acid? Any thoughts would be appreciated as I was really looking forward to this beer just a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks,
Phil
 
Not sure what feet taste like but does it have a barnyard taste?


....not that I've tasted a barnyard either....
 
philiphirz said:
About 4 1/2 months ago I brewed a saison using WLP568 which is the blend of belgian yeast and a belgian saison strain. The saison recipe was pretty straightforward with a gravity of 1.060 made up of 75% belgian pilsener malt, 17% munich malt, and 8% wheat malt. After it fermented for about 2 weeks, down to about 1.010, I moved it to secondary in a 5 gallon better bottle. Initially the beer smelled really good with a distinct spicy yeast character. I also tasted some and was excited about the prospects.

In secondary I pitched a vial of ECY04 - the now discontinued Brett blend. I let it sit in secondary for a little over 3 months with the hopes that it would develop some interesting Brett character. After 3 months the gravity had barely moved - maybe only down a point or two - and I never really saw signs of Brett activity and didn't really notice any Brett character. The smell was still good and so was the flavor. I decided I wanted to repurpose that carboy for a sour with ECY01 so I kegged the Brett saison a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to shoot for pretty high carbonation so I set the regulator for 25 psi at 42 degrees F thinking that I would be in the neighborhood of about 3.5 volumes of C02.

Tonight I finally kicked one of my kegs and I tapped the saison. The flavor was totally disappointing and tasted somewhere between sour apple juice and smelly feet. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Do you think I should let it ride for a few more months to see if the Brett changes the character? Do you think that the carbonation is just too high and it is accenting some strange flavors and adding too much acidity from the carbonic acid? Any thoughts would be appreciated as I was really looking forward to this beer just a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks,
Phil
Click to expand...

Can't say I've ever had "smelly feet" thats a new one to me, but I've made a few brett beers with initial off-flavors (sulfur, plastic, band-aid, cider, etc) that cleared up and turned out wonderful a few months later.

For what its worth, I recently resampled a brett beer that I hated for a year and at 13 months it is drinking quite nicely.
 
dcHokie said:
Can't say I've ever had "smelly feet" thats a new one to me, but I've made a few brett beers with initial off-flavors (sulfur, plastic, band-aid, cider, etc) that cleared up and turned out wonderful a few months later.

For what its worth, I recently resampled a brett beer that I hated for a year and at 13 months it is drinking quite nicely.
Click to expand...

This^

I've had some really good cheeses that smelled like dirty feet, but never a beer with that particular smell.
 
dcHokie said:
Great, now I want cheese.
Click to expand...

I've got a nice wheel of Camembert in the fridge, but those soft cheeses are a commitment.
 
dcHokie said:
Can't say I've ever had "smelly feet" thats a new one to me, but I've made a few brett beers with initial off-flavors (sulfur, plastic, band-aid, cider, etc) that cleared up and turned out wonderful a few months later.
Click to expand...

This has been my experience as well. I did an all Brett c. pale ale and I wasn't happy with it at all after a couple months. Tasted almost like it had detergent in it. I pulled the keg back out and let it sit for a few more months. Turned out fantastic.
 
"Footy" is a flavor sometimes made by Brux. (Kind of similar to barnyard/funk)

Prairie Artisan Ale's "ALE", a Saison with Brux, has a particularly footy smell to me. But it's well balanced so it doesn't overpower the beer.

James Spencer from Basic Brewing complained about having an extremely footy beer by adding the dregs of Orval at bottling.

If its kegged, you can try venting and re-carbonating a few times. This has worked to get rid of cheesy smells from Brett in a no-hop Berliner.
 
Feet, cheese, goaty, etc can all be precursor compounds to tropical or floral. I don't have the chart here, but there is isobutyric and a second similar sounding acid that Brett can change into pleasant esters given time.
 
I pulled it out of the keezer and set it in a room in my basement where I age my sour beers. I will put it back on tap in a couple of months and report back if anything interesting happens.
 
philiphirz said:
I pulled it out of the keezer and set it in a room in my basement where I age my sour beers. I will put it back on tap in a couple of months and report back if anything interesting happens.
Click to expand...

do let us know how it turns out.

i just tasted the leftovers from my Brett B starter... yuck. a mix of band-aid, smelly cheese and feet. really unpleasant. the brett got plenty of O2 on the stir plate while the starter was doing its thing, i wonder if that contributes?

i'm nervous about pitching this foot-cheese mix into my saison, but i'll spin the wheel and do it anyways. the saison will have 6 months with the brett, with much lower oxygen levels... i hope this will help.
 
Philiphirz, did your brett saison ever come around? I've got one going that doesn't taste like feet, but doesn't taste all that good yet. The flavor was much better right after primary fermentation. I'm 3.5 months in now, and the pleasing saison yeast aroma/taste seems muted and the hop bitterness is more upfront than before. Almost like flavors have been stripped away but with no new flavors added to replace what's missing. Hoping it turns around in a few months.

I have 3 gallons aging with just the brett and a couple gallons on a few pounds of pomegranate seeds with the brett. Haven't sampled the pom version yet.
 
Yeroc said:
Philiphirz, did your brett saison ever come around? I've got one going that doesn't taste like feet, but doesn't taste all that good yet. The flavor was much better right after primary fermentation. I'm 3.5 months in now, and the pleasing saison yeast aroma/taste seems muted and the hop bitterness is more upfront than before. Almost like flavors have been stripped away but with no new flavors added to replace what's missing. Hoping it turns around in a few months.

I have 3 gallons aging with just the brett and a couple gallons on a few pounds of pomegranate seeds with the brett. Haven't sampled the pom version yet.
Click to expand...

My first Brett beer, a saison, is in about the same situation right now. Tasted like a great saison after primary with wy3711. After a few months of secondary in the keg with wlp650 and dregs from an Orval, I pulled a sample. The smell was awesome, but the taste was as you described. It was as though the saison yeast character had been stripped away without being replaced. Maybe some carbonation would bring it to life. But it's going to sit for at least another six months, so time will tell.
 
I would bottle that brett saison. I let mine sit in the primary for six months and got just a trace of funk. Then I bottled it up and three weeks later and it's got big brett flavor. They say pressure causes the brett to pump up the flavor profile.
 
If it tastes the way mine smell after a day in my work boots, I wouldn't water the lawn with it.

other than that, I got nuthin.
 
tagz said:
I would bottle that brett saison. I let mine sit in the primary for six months and got just a trace of funk. Then I bottled it up and three weeks later and it's got big brett flavor. They say pressure causes the brett to pump up the flavor profile.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure if my gravity is stable yet. Mine dropped from 1.011 after a long primary to 1.008 when I sampled 2 days ago (45 days between readings). FYI, brett was added 36 hours after WLP565. So it's been in there a while. I think I should give it at least a few more months before bottling to avoid bottle bombs, but I take your point about brett & pressure. I have no idea how far the gravity is expected to drop before FG is reached.


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tagz said:
I would bottle that brett saison. I let mine sit in the primary for six months and got just a trace of funk. Then I bottled it up and three weeks later and it's got big brett flavor. They say pressure causes the brett to pump up the flavor profile.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure if my gravity is stable yet. Mine dropped from 1.011 after a long primary to 1.008 when I sampled 2 days ago (45 days between readings). FYI, brett was added 36 hours after WLP565. So it's been in there a while. I think I should give it at least a few more months before bottling to avoid bottle bombs, but I take your point about brett & pressure. I have no idea how far the gravity is expected to drop before FG is reached.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I was traveling for work and I didn't see the post. After I posted I decided to just pull the saison out of my keezer and set it aside in my basement in the keg. After another 6 months I tried it again and the foot smell was totally gone. Now the flavor and aroma of the saison is almost like a slightly funky apple cider. It is extremely fruity. I still have a little bit left in the keg and it is actually quite delicious. If you don't have a critical need to refill your keg I would wait and see what happens.
 

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