Recipe Critique - Bananas Foster

My wife makes this sometimes, and it's one of my faves - of course, any dessert that you light on fire is good in my book!

Thoughts on the liquid version - I'm a n00bie, so release the hounds!


Dan's Bananas Foster Stout


.5 lbs. Belgian Caravienne
.5 lbs. Crystal Malt 60°L
.5 lbs. Belgian Chocolate Malt
1.7 lbs. German 2-row Pils
.062 lbs. American Black Patent

9 lbs. Liquid Amber Extract
.3 lbs. Oats Flaked
1 lbs. Honey

2 oz. Northdown (Pellets, 8.60 %AA) boiled 60 min.
Yeast : WYeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity



Vanilla and Rum added at bottling, to taste.



I'm hoping to get enough Banana flavor out of the yeast - what do you think?


Also, I'd like to use vanilla bean if possible - how would I use it?


Thanks in advance



EDITED - HERE'S THE FINAL RECIPE... the final one got kind of buried in the posts....

1 lbs. American Caramel 120°L
0.25 lbs. Belgian Special B
6.4 lbs. Liquid Wheat Extract
1 lbs. Candi Sugar Dark

1.5 oz. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
0.50 oz. Fuggle (Pellets, 4.75 %AA) boiled 15 min.

Yeast : WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

Priming:
1 oz of vanilla extract
375ml Captain Morgan's Spiced Rum
1/4 cup of brown sugar

I don't know if you will get enough banana out of that yeast. You might consider a hefeweizen yeast and ferment at higher temperature. Keep the hops down, too. This ought to be sweeter.

Also, on a stylistic note, I would get rid of the chocolate and black patent malt. I know you want to make a stout, but I don't think of stouts when I think of bananas foster. I think of bananas, butter, caramel, and rum (or brandy or that sort of thing). I would rather use a strong dose of high L crystal (like 120°L crystal or Special B) to get those caramel and rum like flavors and aromas. For that matter, I don't know that the Caravienne will do much for you, either.

I'm afraid I don't know much about adding extracts or vanilla bean. I've just never done it.

This sounds like fun and rather interesting. Take your time and think about it a lot. I wonder if you could also blend a hefe yeast with a scottish ale yeast to get some diacetyl to enhance the toffee notes that often come with bananas foster?


TL

yeah, you're absolutely right... as i think on it, I want more caramel highlights then that recipe will offer... so scrap the stout style, and create more of a.... hmm...

if I had lagering capability, a Bananas Foster Dopplebock would probably rock... but I don't so i stick with ales...

hefe yeast is a good idea - wasn't sure which yeast would give me the maximum banana flavor... mmm... banana, caramel, rum, vanilla... this could be a good beer, if pulled off correctly...

if done right, maybe i could even set the beer on fire when served!

:cross:


just kidding - wouldn't want to burn away that much alcohol...

For bananas, I'd suggest WLP300, fermented at about 60 - 62 degrees ambient. I just brewed a hefe with those parameters, and the banana flavor is quite strong.

How about a bananas foster dunkelweizenish thing with a bunch of caramel malt in there? You could even use some melanoidin malt. I'm just thinking a little wildly here.


TL

For a n00b you are ambitious...I like it.

Loose the roast malts and replace with darker crystal.

See if you can get a good caramel colored ale going. Vanilla extract (real) works very well as an additive instead of the expensive vanilla bean. For five gallons, I'd add just 1-2 Tsps...then taste at bottling time and add more if needed.

You might even consider some lactose if you want the beer to take on a sweet tone.

excellent replies all around... vanilla extract would certainly be easier - good to know the proper amounts...

what options would i be looking at as far as hops? i'd like enough to balance, but not to dominate of course... only use some bittering with no flavor or aroma hops? what are your thoughts?

debaniel said:

excellent replies all around... vanilla extract would certainly be easier - good to know the proper amounts...

what options would i be looking at as far as hops? i'd like enough to balance, but not to dominate of course... only use some bittering with no flavor or aroma hops? what are your thoughts?

Click to expand...

I'd go with the same style hops you'd use in an English Bitters, or mild Stout.

EKG, Fuggles or even Willamette.

I'd shoot for an IBU that is just around 1/2 your gravity to keep it towards the low-bitter side.

If your gravity is 1.045, shoot for an IBU of around 20-22.

. . . . Does not produce significant amount of iso-amyl acetate (banana esters) or bubble gum esters typical of many yeast of this style. . . .

Click to expand...

From Wyeast


Just supporting the suggestions to try a different estery yeast.

I used Wyeast 1214 for a belgian 2 batches ago, and got quite a bit bananas from it... fermented it pretty warm as well, and didn't get any harsh fusels... so i might go with that one...

Wyeast Weihenstephan 3068. Rediculous banana flavor. Look up McTarnamins Banana Bread Ale. I suggest bottling it, because I don't know how I'm going to drink 5 gallons on tap. Makes you feel like you just ate a whole loaf of bread.
-Drew

awesome...

should i keep the chocolate malt?

yeah, that 3068 looks good

"Unique top-fermenting yeast which produces the unique and spicy weizen character, rich with clove, vanilla and banana. Best results are achieved when fermentations are held around 68F."

Changes made... keep the critiques coming...


0.5 lbs. German 2-row Pils
1 lbs. American Caramel 120°L
0.25 lbs. Belgian Special B
6.4 lbs. Liquid Wheat Extract
1 lbs. Candi Sugar Dark

1.5 oz. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
0.50 oz. Fuggle (Pellets, 4.75 %AA) boiled 15 min.
0.50 oz. Fuggle (Pellets, 4.75 %AA) boiled 1 min.

Yeast : WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

OG: 1.064
25.2 IBU


6.5 ABV before rum addition during bottling

For an extract batch, I don't see what that half pound of 2-row does for you. Unless you just like hop aroma in here, I don't know that the 1-minute Fuggles addition will move you toward your goal. It looks like a pretty interesting recipe, otherwise.


TL

sounds good... *snip snip*


1 lbs. American Caramel 120°L
0.25 lbs. Belgian Special B
6.4 lbs. Liquid Wheat Extract
1 lbs. Candi Sugar Dark

1.5 oz. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
0.50 oz. Fuggle (Pellets, 4.75 %AA) boiled 15 min.

Yeast : WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

+1 - You're heading straight for a Dunkelweizen with the characteristics you described, and I think it's gonna be almost exactly what you're looking for. The 3068 is perfect for this. Best of luck, can't wait to see results on this one, I think you're gonna be a happy camper

I read through the thread hoping to find out how it ended-
Any updates?

i also would like an update as to if you finally brewed thism and if you did how did it turn out. bannans fosters has to be one of my fav desserts and would like to try it as a beer. we want an update.

When I finish typing...I'm headed for the boil pot. The only change I've made is that I am using ALL Fuggle Hops...cause it's what I could get.

You Know the Kahuna will report back!

Ladies and Gentlemen, Begin Brewing.
I just bottled 47 12 oz bottles, 2 22oz bottles and a 16 oz Root Beer (Brown Plastic) bottle of this, combined with 750 ml of Malibu Banana, and 1 cup Appleton Estates Rum...(The $11.00 a bottle kind)

When I think Banana's Foster, I think about French waiter in an over price restaurant serving food that Can NOT be pronounced.
This stuff is more like a burger and fries on the beach where nobody is wearing shoes, and you just finished a long afternoon of shredding some killer sets on Sun Set beach.

I'm getting ready to pour a new batch of Apfelwein on the yeast cake. Hop junk and all.

Wish Me luck.

OH CRAP.
I forgot to add the vanilla. Guess the extra cup of rum's gonna have to do.

Maybe I'll pour one over a scoop of ice cream to make up for it.

Glad to hear that it's turning out well!

vanilla can be added to individual glasses of beer if you forgot to bottle with it...


i've got relatives that live in St. Croix, so I'll be getting some Cruzan to bottle with.... and i'll let you know how that turns out...


thanks for the update, and let us know how it is when it is carbed and conditioned!

Just an update on this recipe...


I must say, this one is pretty darn good. I fermented this most recent batch at around 75, for lots of banana madness.

I bottled with 1/2 a bottle of Captain Morgan Spiced Rum, and 1 oz of real vanilla extract.

I also primed with about 1/4 cup of brown sugar. There is so much sugar in the rum, that if you aren't very careful, you'll end up over-carbing.

Bottled this batch about 3 weeks after pitching the yeast. It's been in the bottle about 2 weeks.


APPEARANCE: A dark caramel color, slightly lighter than coca cola, but darker than most dunkelweizens. Nice 1/2 inch head that lingers for a while. Very cloudy, thanks to the heffe yeast.

SMELL: mmm... less banana than I thought would be there. This actually kinda reminds me of a mix between a dopplebock and a dubbel... the first thing to hit my nose is caramel, with lots of maltiness and a general fruitiness... definitely some banana going on... dark rum-soaked fruit... figs, dates... I can make out just a hint of vanilla...

TASTE: yep, this one's a keeper. I was worried that the rum and vanilla would be over-powering - on the contrary, they are just a drop in the ocean of flavor. It has all the caramel maltiness of a dopplebock, with the fruity flavors of the heffe yeast... i used all Fuggle hops on this batch, and it turned out beautifully - there is a pleasant wave of soft Fuggle bitterness that balances out the sweet maltiness. my wife's first words when tasting it was, "Wow, this is perfectly balanced." - I love that woman!

After drinking one, I find that the flavor that lingers in my mouth is so good, I have to go grab another... this batch is gonna go fast...

the rum appears only in the background, and the vanilla hints are there as well.

Does it taste like Bananas Foster?

Eh, kinda...

but it's a great brew!


MOUTHFEEL: Medium full body. So far, I'd say the carbonation level is perfect. It's been in bottles for only a couple of weeks, so time will tell on whether this is over-carbed.

OVERALL: This is a very smooth, well balanced brew. I think next time around, I will use 2 oz. of vanilla and a full bottle of rum for a slightly more intense flavor... When adding a full bottle of rum, I'll probably not add any priming sugar, at Big Kahuna's suggestion...

Thanks for all the help on this one - it's great!

Rum, vanilla, maltiness of a dopplebock, fruity flavors of a hefe yeast....... I'm guessing I would not like this one at all.

Glad it came out well for you!!!!!

yep, certainly not for everyone. Good for me!

If you really want some bananas foster taste, you might want to try and encourage some diacetyl(butter/butter scotch flavors) production. How exactly you do this would probably depend on the strain.

EDIT: whoops, didn't realize there were 3 pages...

I'm very tempted to try this batch out next weekend. Use to get Banana Fosters all the time in New Orleans.

Alright, just ordered the stuff to do this brew. Going to do it this coming friday if the stuff arrives and then do an all-grain Fat Tire clone Saturday.

How do you figure out the sugar needed for priming when you're adding the rum?

Also, where can I get real vanilla extract?

for the real vanilla extract, i was able to find it at my local grocery store... in the baking aisle - it's in a little glass bottle, a 2 oz. bottle.

and for the sugar - that's the tricky thing about this recipe... it all depends on how much rum you want to add. Rum has quite a bit of sugar on it's own - Big Kahuna was saying that for his next batch, he was going to try a full bottle (750 ml) without adding any extra sugar at all. The batch that he used a full 750 + one cup was over-carbed, I believe...

i did a half bottle and used about a 1/4 cup of brown sugar, and it seems about right... it's been about 2 weeks in the bottle, so time will tell, and i'll keep you updated.

if anyone knows how to figure out how much actual residual sugar is in rum, that would help a lot...

debaniel said:

yep, certainly not for everyone. Good for me!

Click to expand...

ME TOO!!!

I would recommend this to anyone that even thinks it'd be good.

I did NOT use the vanilla in mine, but it's still one of my favorite "Flavored" beers.

debaniel said:

for the real vanilla extract, i was able to find it at my local grocery store... in the baking aisle - it's in a little glass bottle, a 2 oz. bottle.

and for the sugar - that's the tricky thing about this recipe... it all depends on how much rum you want to add. Rum has quite a bit of sugar on it's own - Big Kahuna was saying that for his next batch, he was going to try a full bottle (750 ml) without adding any extra sugar at all. The batch that he used a full 750 + one cup was over-carbed, I believe...

i did a half bottle and used about a 1/4 cup of brown sugar, and it seems about right... it's been about 2 weeks in the bottle, so time will tell, and i'll keep you updated.

if anyone knows how to figure out how much actual residual sugar is in rum, that would help a lot...

Click to expand...

I might try a full bottle with no sugar. If it doesn't carb properly, I have some carb tabs I keep around for a no carb event, which will remedy the problem.

debaniel said:

sounds good... *snip snip*


1 lbs. American Caramel 120°L
0.25 lbs. Belgian Special B
6.4 lbs. Liquid Wheat Extract
1 lbs. Candi Sugar Dark

1.5 oz. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
0.50 oz. Fuggle (Pellets, 4.75 %AA) boiled 15 min.

Yeast : WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

Click to expand...

Just did the recipe and it's sitting in the fermenter. Wow, extract is a LOT less work than all-grain

Tastes GREAT!!! right now.

I put 1.5 lbs of dark candi sugar in there that I made. Beersmith was giving me 1053 gravity and I measured 1054, but, no clue what final volume was. The tape I was using on my carboy to show 5 gallons fell off. Tasting now it is tasting a little more bitter than I think I would want but I'll see how it comes out in the end. Really excited about this beer. G/f said it tasted like caramel tea.

alright, so my latest batch has been sitting in bottles long enough (about six weeks) to taste right where it should.

on opening, a candy rum-soaked banana smell was very apparent...

as i tilted my glass back to take my first sip, the full aroma combination hit me - vanilla, caramel, banana and rum... it was so distinct that i could even picture a bowl of bananas foster in front of me for a brief moment... very nice!

so, at 2 weeks in the bottles it was pretty good, but not a lot like a bananas foster... at 6 weeks, i'd say it's there!


carbonation, by the way, was perfect with 1/4 cup of brown sugar and 375ml of Captain Morgan's.

how did everyone else's turn out?

I still LOVE mine. It's over carbonated, but I'm coveting the last few bottles....until I get it back into the rotation. I keg now, but I'm pretty sure this would = about 3 good hangovers from the keg!

I'll do it Extract, and I'll do it again....but I'll not use any priming sugar.....

I'm about to put mine into bottles. Sitting here trying to decide how much Rum and sugar to add

Brew is bottled up. I went with 375ml of Captain Morgan and 1/4 cup brown sugar. We'll see how it goes. I'm excited.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/bananas-foster-creamy-ale-all-grain-pic-intensive-291125/

Started a thread on my version