First Wine

I had read about it for a while before hand and I'm using, after looking around on here, what seems like a very primitive method. I have a gallon of grape juice and some wine yeast. I put a cup of regular white sugar in the grape juice, put the wine yeast (activated) in to the mixture and put a balloon on top with a hole in it and let it go. It's been going strong for 12 days now (since 12/23/2009). Now I tried once before, with apple juice, and it stopped doing anything before it cleared up (which is what I read you are supposed to wait for). I had used the same mixture (1 cup of sugar and 1 packet of yeast to .5 gals of apple juice). But anyway I pulled it out and tried filtering it and stuff and failed and it ended up tasting as if I was drinking bread (I DID use bread yeast in this one).


SO, aside from using bread yeast, what did I do wrong in the first one? I am concerned because this batch seems to be losing activity without clearing up as well. Am I destined to fail with my grape juice batch as well?

Also, what's a good way to filter out yeast(for future reference?) I tried a double metal mesh which I had doubted would work. I also tried a coffee filter which, aside from being disgustingly slow, did nothing at all. So any tip there would be great as well.

Thanks for the help.

It only clears up once fermentation stops and you let it sit for several weeks to months.

Well I read that small amounts like this are fairly quick. Maybe 15-25 days? The thing is, the balloon has deflated almost completely and there are very few bubbles (I know I wait til it stops bubbling completely but I'm asking questions not acting), wouldn't this mean that fermentation has stopped? Or is it ready for drinking as quickly as fermentation has stopped but it doesn't become quality until it's aged for a bit? I don't want to make it and then spend months waiting for it to be ready only to find out I screwed it up at the start.

Edit:
Forgive me, I'm still a newb, but I read this:

As an alternate buy a gallon jug of apple juice (no preservatives), pour yourself a glass (for head space) pour in 1 cup of regular cane sugar, and 1 pack of wine or ale yeast, replace the cap just loose enough to allow the CO2 to escape. In 3-5 days you have hard cider. Let it settle, pour off into an empty leaving the trub. Foolproof.

Along with many many other pages and am just trying to get some kind of proof of concept out of this before I go to the extents of 5 gallon carboys and months of aging.

Welcome to HBT!

Not leaving it long enough was probably your one of your problems with the first batch. With wine and cider timing should be in months not days. The other problem is aerating the heck out of a fermented product by trying to filter it.

Time will always clear your beverages but fining agents can hurry it a bit. You might want to read up on wine fining agents like Sparkolloid.

Also, buying a 79 cent airlock wouldn't hurt either.

Where did you read that bit of crap? Really, you are probably better off reading the stickies and threads on here where folks are into making fine beverages instead of cheap swill.

Haha, I googled 'Brewing your own wine at home'. Or something along those lines. As I said before, my first attempt I want to make a drinkable cheap wine just as a proof of concept. I know that sounds stupid because I know it works and everything but I mean proof that I can do it and that I'm doing it correctly. Once I make a drinkable wine that I made from grape juice or something, I plan on making this a hobby. Just for now, I'd like to have a starting point. Kind of like you wouldn't try to build a racecar without having build a few sedans before. I just want some simple concept that I can build off of.

I don't mean to sound naive or lazy I just am a noob and want to make sure that what I'm trying to accomplish at this point is clear before I lay out for the tigers haha.

Thanks guys.

I was just giving you a tiny bit of crap about the airlock.
Really, cider is about the easiest thing to make and there are only a few things you can mess up. Sanitation, oxidation, and using bad yeast are some things that can go wrong. Your first batch probably would have been okay if it had been left for a while longer.

This is a good thread to read although with its gazillion posts it takes a while.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/man-i-love-apfelwein-14860/

I figured the cider would be a good thing to revisit. Now I have Red Start 'Pasteur Champagne' Wine Yeast. I wonder how this grape juice wine will turn out....

Grape juice and bread yeast are a time-honored, if not extremely tasty, way to start out. That was my first wine as well. I'd bet that probably a third of the people on HBT wine forums either started with a batch or made one eventually. It's the first wine Terry Garey starts beginners with in her "Joy of Home Winemaking," a very popular wine book.

Here's what you can expect:

It will take a while to clear--bread yeast doesn't settle well.
It will be sweet. Bread yeast has a low alcohol tolerance. The yeast will die before the sugar is gone. But if you're partial to Manichiewitz, you'll probably like it.
It will taste yeasty unless you age it several months. If you like eating raw pizza dough while drinking a grape Nehi, this is the wine for you.
It won't taste like regular wine. Concord grapes have a different flavor than wine grapes. See the Manichiewitz comment above.

That all being said, it's not the end of the world to make a batch of Welch's & Fleischmann's every so often. But there's better stuff out there waiting for you.

I'd recommend reading up on apfelwein and trying your hand at it or cider. And get a copy of Garey's book. And let your Welch's wine age and clear while you're doing that. Try it in a couple of months and I think it will probably taste decent.

edit-- I re-read your post. I think I understand; you originally did a batch of apple cider with bread yeast, and now you're doing a grape juice batch with wine yeast. OK, the comments about bread yeast still stand, and for your grape wine batch, letting it age will help immensely. Welcome to homebrewing!

Thanks for the input guys, I have been reading the sticky about apfelwein and it sounds very tasty. We should be moving in 2 months so I'm going to hold off making it until then so I don't have to transport it. My other question is, my grape juice wine has pretty much stopped any action, do I still just let it sit there? It's not very clear as of yet but it doesn't seem to be doing anything. Won't it start to mold if I let it just sit there?

Thanks for all the help guys and the kind welcomes!

spider87 said:

Forgive me, I'm still a newb, but I read this:

As an alternate buy a gallon jug of apple juice (no preservatives), pour yourself a glass (for head space) pour in 1 cup of regular cane sugar, and 1 pack of wine or ale yeast, replace the cap just loose enough to allow the CO2 to escape. In 3-5 days you have hard cider. Let it settle, pour off into an empty leaving the trub. Foolproof.

Click to expand...

I slept on this, and it occurred to me that after 3-5 days, it starts fermenting and yes, you have the start of hard cider. The next line says let it settle, which is correct, it just doesn't say that it takes how long it takes to settle, so it is misleading.

CandleWineProject said:

I slept on this, and it occurred to me that after 3-5 days, it starts fermenting and yes, you have the start of hard cider. The next line says let it settle, which is correct, it just doesn't say that it takes how long it takes to settle, so it is misleading.

Click to expand...

Ahh makes sense... But, once it's not bubbling anymore, do I just let it sit for a while until it's cleared up? I dumped it in the sink (the apple 'cider' I attempted) into a spaghetti pot that I then let sit for a week or so just to see what happened. It cleared up perfectly, is that all it really needed?

Ciders and lower alcohol wines won't keep forever, but once they are fermented mold shouldn't be a problem, especially if you've kept things sanitary. Most wines & ciders need additional aging beyond the time it takes for them to clear before they taste good. Even low ABV wines such as bread yeast wines can age up to a year or so. Higher ABV wines can go several years. I would let your wine sit until it clears, might take another month, might not. Then rack (siphon), don't pour, into a jug or carboy with a narrow mouth to minimize any oxygen getting into it. Oxygen before fermentation=good; oxygen after fermentation=off flavors. Get a cheap plastic airlock and stopper from the store and put it on there, and give it 3-6 months. You will be amazed at the difference. I have had several batches of what I thought was homemade paint thinner magically turn into wine at about the 6-7 month point. Just give yourself, and your wine, some time.

spider87 said:

once it's not bubbling anymore, do I just let it sit for a while until it's cleared up? I dumped it in the sink (the apple 'cider' I attempted) into a spaghetti pot that I then let sit for a week or so just to see what happened. It cleared up perfectly, is that all it really needed?

Click to expand...

The best way to tell if it is done is with a hydrometer to see if there is any sugar left to be converted to alcohol, as sometimes the yeasts get "stuck". But yes, if it isn't bubbling and it clears, it is probably done.

As mentioned, siphon because it reduces how much air it comes into contact with.

What is alarming me is the use of the spaghetti pot. Please tell us it isn't metal? Alcohol leached metals out of metal, causing a metallic taste. I also don't think it is good on the metal itself.

See though, what I'm trying to do first is just get a taste so I know I haven't royally screwed something up. Right now it's only like 3/4 gal of grape juice aging it for months seems like a waste of time. What I'm looking to do is get this one to the point where it's drinkable and taste it to make sure I didn't screw anything up then after that reassurance, take the step to much larger amounts and longer wait times and stuff. For now though I just want a simple proof of concept. For now though, I don't care if it taste like crap, I just want to try it, being my first batch. Then I want to go to greater lengths with it once I've had one that works. They had to make silly putty coral colored (it's original color) before enhancing it with other colors and stuff, that's what I'm trying to do. Make a base to expand.

CandleWineProject said:

The best way to tell if it is done is with a hydrometer to see if there is any sugar left to be converted to alcohol, as sometimes the yeasts get "stuck". But yes, if it isn't bubbling and it clears, it is probably done.

As mentioned, siphon because it reduces how much air it comes into contact with.

What is alarming me is the use of the spaghetti pot. Please tell us it isn't metal? Alcohol leached metals out of metal, causing a metallic taste. I also don't think it is good on the metal itself.

Click to expand...

No no, I mean with the cider. Rather than just dump it all down the drain. I was curious what would happen if it sat a little longer. I had also dumped some boiling water in to kill the yeast off. I didn't plan on drinking it it just happened to be a spaghetti pot. I don't think the pot's nonstick surface like the alcohol sitting on it for that long period of time either because now there's a scratch on the bottom from when I was washing it(the alcohol must have softened the non-stick)... It was cheap anyway.... haha...

spider87 said:

No no, I mean with the cider. Rather than just dump it all down the drain. I was curious what would happen if it sat a little longer. I had also dumped some boiling water in to kill the yeast off. I didn't plan on drinking it it just happened to be a spaghetti pot. I don't think the pot's nonstick surface like the alcohol sitting on it for that long period of time either because now there's a scratch on the bottom from when I was washing it(the alcohol must have softened the non-stick)... It was cheap anyway.... haha...

Click to expand...

This is just my opinion but dude, really no more none-stick pots for your cider making! that stuff is toxic. Just buy a cheap stainless steel pot at wallyworld, or better yet they have a 2 gallon glass cookie jar with a lid for $14 that would work nicely for wine. Or run over to a local bakery and ask to buy a food safe empty frosting bucket with a lid-- they might even just give you one. better safe than dead. EM

Emerald said:

This is just my opinion but dude, really no more none-stick pots for your cider making! that stuff is toxic. Just buy a cheap stainless steel pot at wallyworld, or better yet they have a 2 gallon glass cookie jar with a lid for $14 that would work nicely for wine. Or run over to a local bakery and ask to buy a food safe empty frosting bucket with a lid-- they might even just give you one. better safe than dead. EM

Click to expand...

No no no I think you missed my point, I wasn't planning on drinking it at that point (at the point I decided to put it into the non-stick pot). I just wanted to see what happened if I let it sit for a while. It was a step from being down the drain. I wouldn't store anything I was fermenting in metal too many quirks with metal. lol

spider87 said:

See though, what I'm trying to do first is just get a taste so I know I haven't royally screwed something up. Right now it's only like 3/4 gal of grape juice aging it for months seems like a waste of time. What I'm looking to do is get this one to the point where it's drinkable and taste it to make sure I didn't screw anything up then after that reassurance, take the step to much larger amounts and longer wait times and stuff. For now though I just want a simple proof of concept. For now though, I don't care if it taste like crap, I just want to try it, being my first batch. Then I want to go to greater lengths with it once I've had one that works. They had to make silly putty coral colored (it's original color) before enhancing it with other colors and stuff, that's what I'm trying to do. Make a base to expand.

Click to expand...

Then give it a try now. It will have alcohol, it will be yeasty, and it will probably taste "hot" without the aging time. If that's what you're looking for right now, then give it a try. Heck, take a very clean turkey baster, and grab yourself a swig out of there. Then wait 2-4 weeks, and use the turkey baster again, then wait 2-4 weeks and do it again. Repeat until gone. It _will_ taste better every time.

That will provide a good proof of concept for you that you are making wine/cider, even at an early stage, and that it is getting better every couple of weeks with aging.

Once you have that figured out, come back and read some about fermentation temperature, sanitizing, etc.

I mentioned it in my earlier post, but if you can get hold of a copy of Terry Garey's book, "The Joy of Home Winemaking," I'd highly recommend it. There are lots of other good winemaking books out there, but based on the questions you have and where you are with trying some things to get started, I think she'd answer a lot of questions and put your mind to rest about the process. She starts you off with a Welch's juice wine and takes you from there to all kinds of wines. Also gives you lots of helpful tips and explains what everything does and is used for. I have no particular interest in recommending her book other than of all the "how to" books I've read, hers seems to be the most interesting and helpful to me.

I agree with jcobbs. I have other books, but hers is the one I go to first.

spider87 said:

No no no I think you missed my point, I wasn't planning on drinking it at that point (at the point I decided to put it into the non-stick pot). I just wanted to see what happened if I let it sit for a while. It was a step from being down the drain. I wouldn't store anything I was fermenting in metal too many quirks with metal. lol

Click to expand...

What a relief! I was kinda worried that you were gonna drink that stuff- I don't even like cooking in non- stick any longer and have switched to all stainless steel. I am even starting to switch to using all glass and stuff so I am not putting stuff in plastic- all that plastic just can't be good for ya! (like making and drinking all this wine/mead/beer is a health tonic )

Emerald said:

I don't even like cooking in non- stick any longer and have switched to all stainless steel. I am even starting to switch to using all glass and stuff so I am not putting stuff in plastic- all that plastic just can't be good for ya! (like making and drinking all this wine/mead/beer is a health tonic )

Click to expand...

What kind of primary ferementer do you have then, and what size?

CandleWineProject said:

What kind of primary ferementer do you have then, and what size?

Click to expand...

The only wine I've made so far is the apfelwein and some cysers and have only used raisins( to help with nutrients for the yeasts due to the high honey amounts) for the last three one gallon batches and they are in glass. The apfelweins were made in my 5 gallon glass carboy. But I do have a huge stainless stock pot(22quarts?) that I use for my canning that might be used for peach/or mulberry wine next summer. I also have several frosting buckets,(they sell them at the local store, cleaned and with the lids for .99cents each!) from 3 1/2 gallons to 5 gallons with top lids that have good gaskets and I plan of putting a hole in for a rubber stoppered air lock. A good friend gave me 7 one gallon glass jugs that she didn't need any longer.
Since I started last Sept. I have made a 1 gallon trial batch of apfelwein, and two 5 gallon batches, Then I have 4 one gallon batches going of
apple honey
apple raspberry
white grape peach honey
and one wild mutt of mixed all juice like strawberry kiwi, grape, cranberry, apple and a wild berry mix - I will never be able to reproduce this baby, but it was fun to put together!
I figure that this would be good training for when I switch to using the whole fruits from my garden. I even got a hydrometer for my Christmas present and some money for my Birthday so I am hoarding it until I can get tot he brew shop for more fun stuff, like a decent racking cane and hopefully some zorks. And a few more of the swing top blue quart bottles for my meads and cysers.
This hobby is turning into an obsession!