When do you move?

When do you move from primary to secondary? I've heard lots of different opinions on this...30 seconds between bubbles, 90 seconds, no activity (i question that one), after two weeks. What are your thoughts?

No activity. And then, only if I'm racking on to fruit or something. I've joined the no-secondary-unless-you-absolutely-need-to club. I used to secondary for a few days to a week before bottling, but don't do that anymore. I just leave it in primary. I even dry hop and add zest in the primary.

I've subscribed to the 1-2-3 timeframe people have talked about here. After a week in the primary I move it to the secondary for 2 weeks and then bottle condition for 3 weeks. Has worked great so far.

I think ideally you want to move it off the yeast once you hit your target FG. But as Captain Damage said, it's an optional step and not completely necessary.

I move after 4 weeks. No secondary. 4 weeks in primary, then to keg. Whatever method you decide on, don't base it off bubble activity. All that tells you is that no more CO2 is escaping from that particular location. You could still have active fermentation with a leak around your bucket lid.

Why are secondaries so frowned upon? And where's a good resource for me to find a final gravity to aim for if my recipe doesn't give me one? Or is there some kind of mathematical formula...

rferguson61 said:

Why are secondaries so frowned upon? And where's a good resource for me to find a final gravity to aim for if my recipe doesn't give me one? Or is there some kind of mathematical formula...

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It's not to difficult, if you have an OG and know what yeast you used.
Most yeasts will give you a % attenuation range so the FG should be in that range. But not always.
As far as the secondary thing, and doing one or not that's up to you. Folks have all kinds of reasons for doing it or not. Try it both ways and see what you prefer.

rferguson61 said:

Why are secondaries so frowned upon? And where's a good resource for me to find a final gravity to aim for if my recipe doesn't give me one? Or is there some kind of mathematical formula...

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I don't know if they're necessarily frowned upon... but I think most people see it as - if I can get the same conditioning results by just leaving it in primary a little bit longer, then why risk oxidation/infection by running it through another course of siphons, hoses, carboys...

rferguson61 said:

Why are secondaries so frowned upon?

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Back in the dark ages of homebrewing (like 20 years ago ) the quality and viability of the yeast available was suspect so it was almost a requirement to get the beer off the yeast cake ASAP as autolysis was a real concern. As the yeast died and others consumed them they gave off terrible off flavors like rubber and meat. Just about every resource recommended a secondary to deal with the problem of autolysis, including John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff. They now say this practice is outdated as we have the luxury of access to the same quality yeast available to commercial brewers. The yeast we use is very healthy and the risk of autolysis under normal homebrew conditions is minimal.

If aging a beer for extended periods you may want to use a secondary, though many around here have left their brews on the cake for months with no discernible ill effects. Many say these are the best brews they have ever made. The yeast also have some by-products of fermentation to clean up once active fermentation is complete, so one week in the primary is simply not enough time for the beer to properly condition in most cases. Folks like Revvy recommend at least a month in the primary, though as I am working through Chris White (White Labs) and Jamil's book "Yeast," I am finding little evidence from the data they provide to leave the average gravity brew longer than 3 weeks in the primary. That book is awesome and is loaded with useful information about how yeast work and how to get the most out of the little fungus. There does not appear to be much difference between extended bulk aging and extended bottle aging for big beers like barley wines or Belgian brews.

Other reasons besides extended bulk aging include dry hopping (though many do that in the primary these days too), especially when you want to harvest the yeast, adding fruit, or adding bugs or Brett.

I have started doing 3 week primaries with excellent temp control and a slight ramp up towards the end of active fermentation to allow the yeast to finish and then clean up things like diacetyl and acetaldehyde. Once I got temps under control and extended my primary to 3 weeks, ditching the whole 1-2-3 crap, my beers are better quicker. As soon as they carb they are ready to drink. No more waiting for them to "turn the corner" or "come into their own." My 5 gallon Better Bottle has gotten next to no use since I bought it, so I think it is going to become a dedicated Brettanomyces experiment!!!

I have started doing 3 week primaries with excellent temp control and a slight ramp up towards the end of active fermentation to allow the yeast to finish and then clean up things like diacetyl and acetaldehyde. Once I got temps under control and extended my primary to 3 weeks, ditching the whole 1-2-3 crap, my beers are better quicker. As soon as they carb they are ready to drink. No more waiting for them to "turn the corner" or "come into their own." My 5 gallon Better Bottle has gotten next to no use since I bought it, so I think it is going to become a dedicated Brettanomyces experiment!!!

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I am curious what you are doing for temperature control?

Bradinator said:

I am curious what you are doing for temperature control?

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I scored a Magic Chef beverage cooler at a local thrift store for $12 and my FIL gave me a Johnson A419 controller for my birthday (also my 1 year brewing anniversary ). I have some pics and a little on the "build" if you can call it that here [URL="https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/installing-temperature-probe-223131/"]https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/installing-temperature-probe-223131/
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Works great but only for one brew at a time. I plan on doubling (or tripling...I love spring break) up this week so I may have to move the controller to the beer fridge and clear it out.

A controller and a fridge is well worth the investment. You can find fridges all the time on Craig's List or in the paper for under $50. If I purchased another controller I would go with a Ranco 2 stage so I could control heating and cooling from the same controller w/o switching a bunch of crap around. http://www.etcsupply.com/ranco-etc211000000-stage-prewired-temperature-controller-p-110.html
If I need to apply a little heat to raise temps, I have to stick a lamp with a low wattage bulb in there and let the controller lick the fridge on when it gets too warm. It works, but a little ghetto!!!