Canning Homebrew?

NordeastBrewer77 said:

You'd think they could come up with a way to do it manually on a small scale. I mean, this can lids are crimped onto the can, not in the same way as a bottle cap, but I bet it could be done.
Us home brewers are a pretty crafty lot, maybe we have some that could come up with something.

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thats exactly what i was thinking. ive even been trying to look at a beer can to figure out how i could do the same thing at home... maybe turning and filling it sideways? crimp the bottom or top on it?

i drank too much to figure it out tonight, though. maybe tomorrow while i'm supposed to be working ....

to the mason jar guy, again I say, knock yourself out.

But honestly, don't expect others to buy into your idea as most of us want to make good "carbonated" beers. Since we actually understand the two concepts of bottling and canning involve different forms of pressure.

but again knock yourself out, enjoy your beer however flat it may turn out to be.

SouthBay said:

thats exactly what i was thinking. ive even been trying to look at a beer can to figure out how i could do the same thing at home... maybe turning and filling it sideways? crimp the bottom or top on it?

i drank too much to figure it out tonight, though. maybe tomorrow while i'm supposed to be working ....

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I hear ya! It's something definitely worth thinking about, though. I'm thinking full can tops, with the tab pre sealed, and some sort of 'capper' that allows you to cap the can much the same way as you'd cap a bottle, only something larger diameter. It seems very simple, almost too simple. Maybe someone should communicate with Ball or a company like that who makes a lot of the cans for the brewing industry, see if there's a way individuals and not just breweries can get uncapped cans and separate lids.

Like you, I've had enough beer to not want to do that right now.... more beer tonight, research tomorrow. I'll post back if I find anything worthwhile.

Revvy said:

See I don't predict Kaboom, I predict hissssssssssssssss. The co2 is going to pop the seal on the lids and the gas is just going to leak out. And probably not even all that dramatically, as soon as the slightest amount of overpressure happens (probably within 24 hour) the seal is going to break and the gas is just going to ooze out as it is being produced.

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You are right. A buddy of mine gave it a try just for kicks with a small sample and every one of the jars outgassed.

the oversized bottle capper idea was my first thought as well. You'd have to reinforce the top ring of the can so the capper has something to grab onto, or design it to work like a bench capper (rather than a hand capper). My main worry would be the capper crushing the aluminum can while applying the pressure to it.

Another thought would be the lip it would create being uncomfortable to drink with (sharp metal edge to the face). so maybe invert the can, and crimp it on the bottom side? so the real top with the opening you drink out of is pre-sealed to the walls of the can.

And then i saw this thing at work that got me thinking. Old school casks were filled from the side, with a bung to plug the filling hole. Could cans be done the same way, with some type of cap that you stick/crimp/twist onto the side to seal it, then turn the cans upright like normal...

anyways, just some thoughts...

SouthBay said:

the oversized bottle capper idea was my first thought as well. You'd have to reinforce the top ring of the can so the capper has something to grab onto, or design it to work like a bench capper (rather than a hand capper). My main worry would be the capper crushing the aluminum can while applying the pressure to it.

Another thought would be the lip it would create being uncomfortable to drink with (sharp metal edge to the face). so maybe invert the can, and crimp it on the bottom side? so the real top with the opening you drink out of is pre-sealed to the walls of the can.

And then i saw this thing at work that got me thinking. Old school casks were filled from the side, with a bung to plug the filling hole. Could cans be done the same way, with some type of cap that you stick/crimp/twist onto the side to seal it, then turn the cans upright like normal...

anyways, just some thoughts...

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I agree with the issue of crushing the aluminum can. That would be my main concern. However, sealing from the bottom does seem like a good way to work it. I KNOW we have some engineers on here...Get to work on this!

NordeastBrewer77 said:

You'd think they could come up with a way to do it manually on a small scale. I mean, this can lids are crimped onto the can, not in the same way as a bottle cap, but I bet it could be done.
Us home brewers are a pretty crafty lot, maybe we have some that could come up with something.

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I've been thinking about this for a few years, something to seal up the existing hole created when you pop the top of the can. Basically you'd remove the pull tab and the circle of metal that opens up and replace something in the hole to seal it.



I though maybe some solid rubber plug that worked like a split ring grommet.



Where you would just wedge it in and it would seal the top and bottom of the lid..

But lately, looking at the kegs I just bought, I'm thinking something like a tini keg lid. What happens with keg lids, is that you basically slip the lid into the hole, and it has a gasket on the top of it, and once it's in place then you pull on the little latch thing which causes the little feet to push down on the top of the keg, which pulls upward on the lid and seals it. But I think the the aluminum on top would be too thin to stand up to the pushing of the feet and latch.



Now if someone uses my ideas, you have to give me a lifetime supply of the little buggers.

So I went to the Ball website to see what I could find.... not too much, it's mostly geared to commercial applications. But, in their 'contact us' section, there's a contact for 'home canning', now I know that usually means 'canning' in a Ball jar, but I sent an email with some specific questions about canning in cans, capping, and obtaining a small amount of cans and separate lids for some experimentation.
I have a couple ideas along the lines of what I posted last night, and I'd like to have some unsealed cans to see if I can figure out a way to cap them. I have a good friend who's really crafty and a great problem solver when it comes to things like that, so I'm going to bounce my ideas off him and see what he thinks about the feasibility of using something similar to a bench or wing capper to cap a can. There's gotta be a way to do it manually, like the machines in a canning plant, but manually and one can at a time. It's basically the same thing we do with bottles, our cappers aren't too different from the actual capping device on a capping machine, they're just small and manually powered. I'm convinced there's a way we can do the same thing with cans.
Anything I hear or figure out, I'll post back here. If you guys have more ideas, please share, the more brains we have thinking about this, the better.

grndslm said:

Srsly??

I've gotten the idea to bottle in mason jars from this site once or twice. I'm wondering why it's not MORE common if there's no need for a capper and a "limitless" replacement caps.

Mason jars come in 8, 16, 32, 64 oz jars. Twelve jars for $10 or less???

Oh yea... they're not brown, tho. So leave 'em in box inside two bags, in a closet, in the basement. Then it's all good!!!

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I say give it a shot. The big problem is the large surface area of the seal. With a bottle cap it is much smaller. If you could tighten the ring enough, I bet your could get it to seal. Of course then it would be hard to open (and potentially messy). The advantage of a bottle and cap is simplicity and reliability. I'm sure you could get the mason jars to work. It is simple, but getting it to reliably seal would be more difficult.

I don't think that just because they were designed to hold a vacuum that automatically means that they won't also hold pressure instead. The frisbee was originally a pie tin, until someone used it for another purpose

I think the jars are plenty strong. There are some pretty thin beer bottles out there

I'm not sure if anyone posted this but here is what your looking for.




I just found the video, now I'm looking for how much it cost and where I can find it. I WANT one!!

I think the "aluminum bottles" would be the most practical way for a home brewer to "can" beer.

For those old enough... think back to the "cone top" cans. The aluminum bottles are just a modern incarnation of that. With screw top lids they'd be the easiest to utilize as well.

The "mini keg lid" Revy suggests, just seem like it'd be expensive, and how would you pressurize to seal it? (like you do a keg).

Mason Jars are for moonshine. BUt i do like the aluminum can bottles

Kmcogar said:

I'm not sure if anyone posted this but here is what your looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqhzFOBGBd8&feature=youtube_gdata_player


I just found the video, now I'm looking for how much it cost and where I can find it. I WANT one!!

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DUDE!!! That is awesome!!! I wonder how much something like that runs. Thanks for posting that, let us know if you find anything more out about it.

here... $1500
http://www.alibaba.com/product-tp/123001288/soft_drink_can_seamer.html

or maybe this could work??
http://www.canningpantry.com/all-american-can-sealers.html

Here ya go!!!
http://www.houseofcans.com/plain-inside-finish.-pour-attached-dia.-11/16-13/16-p-1859-l-en.html

NA_Wreckdiver said:

here... $1500
http://www.alibaba.com/product-tp/123001288/soft_drink_can_seamer.html

or maybe this could work??
http://www.canningpantry.com/all-american-can-sealers.html

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Somebody buy this man a beer!!! Thanks, bro!

check the last one I added... THAT is the ticket!

Sweet, but i noticed it says "These cans are not food grade".
anyone tried this before, with the cans from the 3rd link?
Not sure if it matters whether its food grade if you sanitize well. Seems like it would be fine as long as its aluminum. Hell if i know...

GarageDweller said:

Sweet, but i noticed it says "These cans are not food grade".
anyone tried this before, with the cans from the 3rd link?
Not sure if it matters whether its food grade if you sanitize well. Seems like it would be fine as long as its aluminum. Hell if i know...

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I would expect the problem is the inside does not have the varnish they put on the inside of Al cans to keep the contents from leaching the Aluminum.

NA_Wreckdiver said:

check the last one I added... THAT is the ticket!

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You sir, just made my day! Like another poster said, I'm guessing 'not food grade' means they don't have the lining that modern beer and soda cans do. The stuff that keeps things from leeching aluminum out of the can..... but..... if they make non food grade cans like that, they gotta make food grade. The video posted above showed a guy canning his homebrew in what appeared to be Ball can blanks, and Ball cans are food grade. That's what many many breweries can in.
I still haven't heard back from the Ball home canning rep I emailed this morning, but one of the things I asked is how an individual can get Ball cans and separate tops.... hopefully I'll hear something soon.

I love that there is actually a business in the world called "House of Cans, Inc."

thats pretty frickin rad.

Now the trick is to get the price point down so its really easily affordable.

Also, why would you make a can with a drinking hole that isnt food grade? that seems silly.

SouthBay said:

Also, why would you make a can with a drinking hole that isnt food grade? that seems silly.

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I was thinking the same thing. I imagine this thread will have it all sorted out by the end of the day. Hopefully the food grade cans won't cost a lot more. Since the canning device looks to be pricey, compared to a simple bottle capper.

SouthBay said:

thats pretty frickin rad.

Now the trick is to get the price point down so its really easily affordable.

Also, why would you make a can with a drinking hole that isnt food grade? that seems silly.

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Isn't it frackin' sweet?! I'm not getting the 'non food grade' can thing either.... does non food grade just mean not lined? If that's the case, as long as it doesn't affect the flavor, f it.... half of what you hear about aluminum (like all that Alzheimer's schtuff) is old wive's tales. Either way, there HAS to be a way to get Ball cans, or other food grade or lined cans.

These guys in the San Francisco Bay Area are doing this for some of the craft breweries out here. They've mentioned on their Facebook that they are looking for a way to have "home brewer" days where we can bring in our kegs to have them canned. No mention of price yet, but I'm definitely watching them for updates.

Cut out the middle man!
I want to can my own, screw paying someone a per-can price and having to bring the beer to their shop. I want to can in my home brewery! This is America dammit!

GarageDweller said:

Cut out the middle man!
I want to can my own, screw paying someone a per-can price and having to bring the beer to their shop. I want to can in my home brewery! This is America dammit!

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Or, start your own "I'll can your home brew" business! There is a company (seen it on this forum) that makes reusable vinyl labels the brewer could put on his cans. With the growth of the home brew industry, that could be a very brisk business.

I came up with an idea on how this could be done. but, if anyone steals it, i expect free cans to can my homebrew with.

so, you start with a can that has the sidewalls and top (with the mouth of the can already sealed). The bottom is left off, however.

The bottom of the sidewalls would need a thicker 'ring' of aluminum to keep it from crushing. The bottom edge of that ring would need to have the same waxy/silicone stuff thats on the inside of bottle caps. On top of that, the reinforced ring could have a 1/4 turn threading on it. This is the male end of the setup.

Then, the bottom of the can would be where the real changes come in. It could be a solid piece of aluminum, with the same waxy stuff on it. It would need to have a female set of threading that mates up to the male threading on the can's reinforced bottom ring. On top of that, the bottom would have a ring of rectangular 'tabs' that radiate outward, encircling the whole deal.

So, you invert the can, fill it, then twist on the bottom, creating the seal.

Then, to ensure it doesnt pop open, an oversized capper would essentially fold down the tabs around the lip of the reinforced ring.

i hope that explains it. if anyones intrigued enough, i could draw up a diagram to go along with the description.

this idea stems from the bottle caps going onto the bottle doing a couple of things: first, it creates a seal. second, it locks the cap in place so the outward pressure doesnt break the seal. It also addresses the problem of the cap being uncomfortable on your face when you're drinking it by putting it on the bottom of the can. The reinforced ring shouldnt collapse under the capper, either. AND, it would require only minimal equipment to do on your countertop.

thoughts?

Revvy said:

But lately, looking at the kegs I just bought, I'm thinking something like a tini keg lid

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Sounds a lot like a Grolsch version of a can. I would imagine that if this idea were plausible, someone would have done it already.

cell phones,live internet"s",next up hombrew cans.I mean look at telephones ?whod a thunk,think about it.amazings.

Looks to me like there is a company that is already on top of how to make the cans and canner. We just haven't figured out whether the "non food grade" cans are a problem or not. I'm sure a phone call to that company would probably find that they either sell the same cans with the food grade lining, or that the "non food grade" cans would be fine for canning homebrew. I don't know, I'm interested, but don't want to be the first guy to buy 300 cans and find out its leaching aluminum when my skin turns blue like the colloidal silver guy. :fro:

any updates? has anyone found food grade cans or started canning beers themselves?