weak flame on my bg14

So I got my gas manifold finished and fired it up to check for leaks. No leaks but the flame is very weak. These are low pressure bg14's plumbed through a marshall 230 regulator into 1/2 black iron, with flex tubing running to the burners. Orifices are the lp ones from brewers hardware. The flame is only about 1/4" high when I open the valve wide open. Suggestions???? I know im not gonna get the kind of flame I'm used to with high pressure burners, but it has to be better than this

Also forgot to mention that I included the "overflow preventors" that came with the flex tubing, I'm thinking that my first attempt will be to try it without them and see if that makes any difference. I have watched some youtube videos, and my flame is certainly not what it should be

My only guess would be a faulty regulator...I have a manifold setup and connect my 30 psi regulator to the tank and then adjust the flame with using needle valves at each burner.

bellam87 said:

My only guess would be a faulty regulator...I have a manifold setup and connect my 30 psi regulator to the tank and then adjust the flame with using needle valves at each burner.

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That was my first thought, but the regulator came off of a hundred pound bottle that I previously ran a heater with. It was working fine then. It is single stage though. Wondering if I need a dual stage reg. Also this is low pressure...11" w.c.

First shot I'd get rid of that "overflow preventer." If its a flex hose for appliances it's possible its choking down your flow as most home appliances don't need as much gas as a 14" banjo does.

Assuming the regulator is working it has 140k BTU capacity. Are you running all 3 with poor results at the same time but running one burner works just fine? If all three were open you would be getting about 47k to each one.

Docgineer said:

First shot I'd get rid of that "overflow preventer." If its a flex hose for appliances it's possible its choking down your flow as most home appliances don't need as much gas as a 14" banjo does.

Assuming the regulator is working it has 140k BTU capacity. Are you running all 3 with poor results at the same time but running one burner works just fine? If all three were open you would be getting about 47k to each one.

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This is just running one burner, the other is plumbed through a gas valve which I don't have wired yet and therefore haven't fired. It is a two burner herms rig or will be when I get it done. I will try getting rid of the overflow preventer and seeing if that works and will report back, if that doesn't fix it it almost has to be the reg

Docgineer said:

First shot I'd get rid of that "overflow preventer." If its a flex hose for appliances it's possible its choking down your flow as most home appliances don't need as much gas as a 14" banjo does.

Assuming the regulator is working it has 140k BTU capacity. Are you running all 3 with poor results at the same time but running one burner works just fine? If all three were open you would be getting about 47k to each one.

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YEP!

Full flame height at 11" W.C. using the proper orifice should be 1" - 1.5" You don't need a 2 - stage regulator. A simple barbecue low pressure regulator will work just fine.

OneHoppyGuy said:

YEP!

Full flame height at 11" W.C. using the proper orifice should be 1" - 1.5" You don't need a 2 - stage regulator. A simple barbecue low pressure regulator will work just fine.

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Hoppy, is that "yep" in agreement that I should toss the "overflow preventers" in the trash?

yes, toss the limiters

Thanks, if that doesn't work I will move on to the regulator

Ok so I took off the limiter and that didn't work, still weak. Went out and bought a new regulator and that didn't work either. It is a mr. Heater 11" w.c. I have tried two different tanks also. This is all the flame I'm getting



As you can see not even all of the flame holes will stay lit. Here is what I have set up on the tank. I don't know what else to do

Increase the hole size on your orifice.

Any idea what size I should start with? These are the low pressure orifices from brewers hardware if that helps

Start with #49/.073" and go up from there

I am pretty sure BG-14 burners are high pressure burners and require a high pressure regulator. quoted from bayou classic: High Pressure Cast Iron Banjo Burner Description:

The Bayou Classic High Pressure Banjo Burner is one of Bayou Classic&#8217;s most powerful cast iron burners. This cast iron burner is the same burner found in the KAB4 outdoor propane burner. The BTUs of this burner can produce over 210,000 BTUs plus! In order to obtain a nice, crisp flame, you will need at least high PSI regulator. For best results, we suggest purchasing a regulator (7850, 0-30 PSI), a propane hose (7906, 7908, 7910) and orifice (5235). The face of this cast iron burner measures 10 inches in diameter.<br><br>Many people have asked us for a BTU for this cast iron propane burner. The actual cast iron element (burner) does not determine the BTUs. The regulator determines the BTUs. You can use the 30 PSI regulator kit with it.

I'm pretty sure we have done several stands with these burners using low pressure...

Ok No Problem! Just odd that the manufacturer says otherwise. i use an adjustable high pressure regulator on my three and never have a problem, worked right out of the box. I don't have to try and rig it to work on low pressure. But hey i'm funny that way.

The burner is just a hunk of cast iron, it is the orifice size determines the pressure that is used. It's not a matter of 'rigging'. The same burner can also be used with natural gas using the proper size orifice. It's basic air/fuel ratio just like a carburetor.
To use this style burner with a furnace gas valve, the pressure needs to be .5 PSI / 11" W.C. which is an extremely low pressure for propane, thus the amount of fuel needs to increase.

oh and not to be a nooooodge but regulators are color coated to determine high and low pressure. high pressure regs have red knobs or bodies, low pressure regs are silver or brass color with black knobs. judging by the pics on your web site you are using high pressure regs on your rigs.

Because some rigs have both high and low pressure burners.
If you would take but a minute and research the subject on HBT, you will find thousands of posts on this subject. If you research my threads you will see that our company is very anal when is comes to gas safety. You will also find we provide a lot of information on this topic.

Ya looks like you're not getting enough flow to those burners. Listen to Kurt. If you get past 0.080 stop and rethink whats going on. Those cheap orifices can come with irregular sizes so its usually best to drill em to make sure anyway.

It's all about the size of the orifice. They just list em that way because Banjo sells HP stuff and the numbers are bigger (that's how you get the 210k BTU's.) The amount of heat output is lower on low pressure (100k) but as long as you have an appropriate orifice you'll have plenty of flame as 210k is way more than you need. Also with low pressure you can use the ol Honeywell gas automation.

With the amount of questions I see on burners and the plumbing there of, we really should come up with a sticky or a page in the wiki all about this. Or a stickey wickey, which I can give you a shot and some pills for.

Please PM me... I need some pills!!

that is true about changing orifice for natural gas. The regulator determines the psi of your gas to the orifice. the orifice still has to supply enough volume of gas to dispense to the LARGE burner. Take a garden hose filled with water under pressure, poke a hole in it and water will squirt 10 feet high, poke 20 holes in it and they will squirt 1 foot. you would have to add more water pressure to make the 20 holes squirt 10 feet. Simple dynamics off pressure!

and yes the size of the hole does make a difference. but with an adjustable regulator you can use your orifice as is and add more pressure to determine your proper flame. easier to turn a knob than drill out an orifice. and you then have the ability to burn at 100,000btu up to 230,000btu giving you the option to upgrade to larger batches without changing your rig. Good luck and peace out!!

Thanks, I will track down some little tiny drill bits. I may also try swapping out the orifice in question for the one on my other burner (that hasn't been tested yet) just to see what happens

So, after all this and a new regulator, it turns out that there was a tiny piece of debris in the orifice. Part of me feels like a dumba$$ and the other part feels like primitive man seeing fire for the first time. Thanks for all the help. next time I will know what to check before I start replacing parts

removed by poster

wncbrewer said:

So, after all this and a new regulator, it turns out that there was a tiny piece of debris in the orifice. Part of me feels like a dumba$$ and the other part feels like primitive man seeing fire for the first time. Thanks for all the help. next time I will know what to check before I start replacing parts

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What? No picture of your new beautiful flame?

jfrizzell said:

What? No picture of your new beautiful flame?

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It is at my shop at work, and I had the epiphany right at quitting time and had to run. I'll put up a pic first thing in the morning. Hope to have all the parts to finish my honeywell controlled burner next week. I am VERY eager to see that one fire itself

thereferee2 said:

and yes the size of the hole does make a difference. but with an adjustable regulator you can use your orifice as is and add more pressure to determine your proper flame. easier to turn a knob than drill out an orifice. and you then have the ability to burn at 100,000btu up to 230,000btu giving you the option to upgrade to larger batches without changing your rig. Good luck and peace out!!

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You obviously still do not understand the point of using low pressure propane.
Once again: a furnace gas valve is designed to work with .5 PSI/11" W.C. In order to use a furnace gas valve the propane pressure must be reduced accordingly. The furnace gas valve is used to automate flame control. A furnace gas valve is the safe and proper method of accomplishing burner control. This is a very common practice used in brewing systems.

As promised

Glad you figured it out. How far down did you mount the burner? and have you tested it to see how long it takes to boil 5 gallons? I ask because I am trying to get my setup working and my flame looks a lot like yours but I was expecting more.

I have not done a test boil yet, but man this flame is hot. I mounted my burners at four inches, which seems to be what others are doing. Used the heat shields to mount the burners here are some other pics. Bending the sheet metal was the biggest PITA of this project so far

In that picture on the right...are those spacers that your pot sits on? Do they have a purpose?

That's exactly what they are, they give the exhaust a place to vent so that they don't choke down the flame. Others have used more intricate methods, such as venting gas to the rear of the stand. There are some photos of this on brewers hardware website somewhere. drkwoods did a stand that mine borrows a lot from and he engineered a two piece windscreen with a chimney/stack type deal to vent exhaust. I don't have the link handy but if you do a search for his user name it should come up. I decided to go with these standoffs because they are simple and I already had the half inch bar stock.