Dough-in (or "water-in") method?

I've been doing my first few AG's by following John Palmer's methods in How to Brew. He stresses to add preheat the MLT, and then add the mash water to the grain -- not the other way around.
I've seen quite a few folks here preheat their tun with 180º water and wait for it to settle to strike temp, then add the grain to the water. That seems easier...but I can't find any information as to what the pros and cons are for each.

Thats exactly what I do. I think its purely a matter of preference. I have tried both. I really like the convenience of preheating with 180*F water and letting it settle to the correct strike temp. I also seem to get less dough balls if I add grain to the water while stirring.

Do you guys normally add the water at 180* and then add the grain at, say, 155* to account for the grain lowering the temp of the water further? This is assuming at 152* desired mash temp.

I do my calculations with Beersmith. I have my equipment set up so it can tell me what temperature I have to dough in at to reach my rest temp. It takes into account the grain temp, but assumes the mash tun is preheated.

I did a Scottish 70/- yesterday, so this is fresh in my mind.
I wanted my rest to be 155F. I'll heat my water up to 170F +. Beersmith will tell me, that for my 5 gallon plastic mash tun, and the 8 pounds of grain at 75F, I need to dough in at 167 to reach a 155F rest. I cover the tun for a few minutes to get the entire thing heated. I then let the water cool down to 167F and dough in.

This past weekend was only my 2nd AG batch. During my first, I followed Palmer's directions and added the water to the grain and this time I forgot and ended up adding the grain to the water. It did not seem to make a difference in mash consistency in my case. The only issue was that I was almost unable to add all of the grain. My mash tun is only a 5 gallon circular cooler and I had 11lbs lbs of grain. The benefit I see of adding the water to the grain is even though I am targeting 2.0 qts/lb of mash water, for larger grain bills, where the full amount of water will not fit, I am better able to estimate how much water will fit. But I am sure that this is primarily due to my limited experience.

Man we have one of these threads every week....

Maybe it's time for a sticky?

or some sort of search feature.......

IrregularPulse said:

or some sort of search feature.......

Click to expand...

Sort of a tricky thing to search for...not sure what i needed for a search query to find out what the actual difference btw grain --> water vs. water -->grain is.

I just don't know why Palmer explicitly says to NOT add grain to water. Is it just bc he sees that as "easier" for the beginner (in which case some of us would disagree)? Or is there actually something negative that can happen to the mash (thermal shock, HSA)?

Then there's the option of doing water > grain > water > grain, etc...That's kind how I do it. Slow trickle on the water and add a little grain at a time to make sure everything is wet and no dough balls.

As you gain experience you will learn that there are a lot of "rules" in these old HBing books that are just not valid...

Must chill wort quickly...
HSA...
Water to grain...
Batch Sparging not being efficient...

Just because it is written in a book, doesnt make it true, or at least valid today. This forum is great for debunking old ideas.

Then call me lazy but my method works.

I fill (maybe a quarter of the way) with hot tap water and let it sit while my strike water is being brought up to 170.

When the strike water gets to temp, I dump the sink water, add the strike water then add grains and stir.

My temps are usually spot on at about 152 using this method and hold for the entire hour (maybe 1-2 degree loss which is acceptable to me)
-Me

Instead of making another step... I just put my strike water in the MLT 12F hotter than I need to mash in. Let it sit... preheat the MLT and cool to strike temp. then mash in.

Less water, one less step.

Kilted Brewer said:

Then there's the option of doing water > grain > water > grain, etc...That's kind how I do it. Slow trickle on the water and add a little grain at a time to make sure everything is wet and no dough balls.

Click to expand...

+1, I do something very similar:
1/3 of the grain in -> half of the water -> quick stir -> next 1/3 of grain -> quick stir -> rest of water -> quick stir -> last 1/3 of the grain -> stir like the dickens!

Using the BeerSmith temps I am usually pretty close to my temp, maybe a couple of degrees over. I either let it sit and cool a little (or stir to release more of the heat) or just add a little tap water.

i do water then grain and it works very well

chirs said:

Sort of a tricky thing to search for...not sure what i needed for a search query to find out what the actual difference btw grain --> water vs. water -->grain is.

Click to expand...

I don't mean to say "USE THE SEARCH NOOB!" because this forum is not like that and I'm very thankful for that fact. I was just joking around. But for a search I would use water to grain in the search and come up with this results page.

The Pol said:

Instead of making another step... I just put my strike water in the MLT 12F hotter than I need to mash in. Let it sit... preheat the MLT and cool to strike temp. then mash in.

Less water, one less step.

Click to expand...

This is exactly what I do as well.

I don't preheat per se. Water goes in at 15F above mash temp. After the water is in I'll hit it with a thermometer to check it and once I'm at 12F above mash temp I dough in.

I usually lose right at 3F just dumping the water from the kettle to the MLT, but sometimes I do need to wait and stir for a bit to lose a degree or two.

Obviously this works for me on my system. It's not meant as a guide for others. Keep track of your temps and how long it takes you to do things and you'll get your system down as well.

No sweat. I probably SHOULD have found it with the search....I usually have do the old "pretend I'm working" thing every five minutes my boss walks in. Thanks for the link.