Help, last 2 batches have gone sour in primary!

This is just an absolute nightmare. My last 2 batches have soured in the primary. I can tell just by smell. Both are IPA's. I had another IPA batch before that which even got infected, though that batch smelled and tasted awesome until it got infected in the bottles. Overall, these would be my 4th, 5th and 6th batches total (I can't brew that often).

I'm totally at a loss here. The first sour batch I'm almost certain went sour in my yeast starter, which leads me to believe the infection might be coming from the little plastic funnel I use from my mom's kitchen to transfer from the boil to the growler. I used this same funnel to transfer this last batch from kettle to carboy. Both times I scrubbed and sanitized the funnel (first time w/ Iodophor, this time w/ StarSan). Still, after the 5th batch I threw away my plastic bucket just cause who knows if it had scratches in it or whatever.

I sanitize like crazy. i use to use Iodophor, I just switched to mainly StarSan. I sanitized this carboy once with iodophor after having scrubbed, washed with soap and water, and then I sanitized with StarSan before transferring the wort. I am using the correct concentrations. This last IPA I even dumbed things down, did extract w/ some steeping malts, was only gonna do a primary without a secondary, but here we are infected again after 4 days in the fermenter. I used smack packs these last 2 times and I sanitize the bag before opening. To aereate the wort I put sanitized foil over the top of the carboy and shake for a while.

The only possible ways I think this could be getting infected are-
1. during wort cooling, the lid is cracked barely because I have my copper wort cooler in it. Wort gets cooled to 70 in around 10-15 minutes. I really doubt this is cause of infection though.
2. Plastic funnel - I dunno... maybe? How likely do you think that is??? Could this make an entire batch go sour???
3. Copper wort cooler - I doubt it cause I even put it in the pot at 30 minutes this time instead of 15 minutes.

Is anything standing out to anyone here? I know its probably almost impossible to know since you can't follow my every step. I can't keep wasting money like this on spoiled batches though, but it kills me not to know what is going wrong. The very last thing I may do here before throwing the towel in for a while is buy a brand new funnel and do tiny little batches with simple dried yeast in growlers just to see if they turn sour.

I'm just desperate here, and even though I have a few bottles of my last good batch from back in februrary to drink, I am definitely not relaxing or not worrying

Are you 100% its infected ?

Lots of hops + CO2 can smell sour as HELL! (And dont stick your head into the bucket and sniff, that will hurt your nose like hell. Co2 stings)
To be sure, pull a sample into a glass and smell that.

The only thing that makes me think otherwise is that I've done a pale ale and an IPA before that smelled fantastic & hoppy after fermentation while I was transferring to secondary and to bottling. The last IPA that went sour in the fermenter was completely done fermenting when I smelled it (I was about to transfer to secondary that time) and it was just totally different. This one is starting to smell like that but it is still bubbling, so I guess based on what you are saying there may still be some hope for this. I guess I'll have to see what it smells like when I transfer it to bottles.

Impale, I think I did jump the gun on this. From doing a little google searching it seems like there is a lot of info to back up your statement as it's not too uncommon to have sour and/or foul smelling fermentations.

Glad to hear it, tell me how it turns out.

Im sure you are fine. I've had tons of sour smelling IPAs.

Here are a couple things to try, put 2 table spoons of automatic dishwasher powder in your carboy and fill it with hot water to top of neck and let set for 2-4 hours. This should remove any yeast residue and the chlorine in the dishwasher powder will kill anything left behind. Do the same amount of dishwasher powder and hot water in a 5 gal bucket and add all of the cold side utensils, hoses, and air locks to bucket for 4 hour soak. After soak rinse all the hoses and other items in hot water then hang up to dry. Sanitize with an amber colored iodophor solution with a minimum 5 minute soak before use, drain but do not rinse items as that defeats the sanitizing, the residual iodophor on the surface will be undetectable in final product.

TrojanAnteater said:

I'm totally at a loss here. The first sour batch I'm almost certain went sour in my yeast starter, which leads me to believe the infection might be coming from the little plastic funnel I use from my mom's kitchen to transfer from the boil to the growler. I used this same funnel to transfer this last batch from kettle to carboy.

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I just bought a stainless steel funnel off eBay so I could sterilize it in the pressure cooker with the (flasks and stoppers) for yeast starter purposes.

You can't tell sour by smell....Only by taste...there are LOTS of funky smells during fermentation, so there's almost no point in worry til you taste it....and if it's not sour then it will be fine after bottle conditioning....

And you can't judge one fermentation by another....because we're dealing with living micro organisms, as opposed to say, mixing coolaid, there is a great deal of mother nature's randomness happening.

I might be in the same boat...

1st batch was extract with specialty grains. Turned out great and is almost gone.

2nd batch was an AG Kolsch. Almost positive this one is sour, Smells sour and Tastes sour, but I'm giving it another week. It has had 3 already. Tasted good going into 6 gal glass carboy. Tasted good about 7 days in, tasted sour at 3 weeks.

3rd is an AG Pale Ale. It has had 10 days and was just tested 1.010 and moved to the keezer to crash cool. Smell is a little sour and taste is sour I think. It has not been touched since it was racked into 6 gal glass carboy. Everthing was textbook with great fermentation. I'm going to rack into keg on Monday night and go from there.

I used the same turkey fryer and Ice bath for all batches including the 1st pale ale that turned out great. I did the extract kit as a full boil.

1. Everything pre boil can be ruled out correct? MLT, HLT, etc.

2. So most likely infected during Ice bath or whirlpooling/racking into primary? I used the same racking cane, stirring stick, funnel and same vodka for all air locks and star san for all batches.

Note: I have a couple of inside/outside dogs that I try to keep away. They are in the pond outside and inside later.. Mabye I can blame the @#$ dogs!

bump,
Any suggestions?

The inside of hoses is the hardest thing to clean, also where the hose is forced over the racking can can create a pocket for material to build up and cause problems. The other sources of contamination are starter cultures and aeration of cold wort, lacto bacteria are present on the malted grains and dust contamination of cold wort is bad news. If the beer is going sour in the primary/secondary stage it would have to be a fairly large source of contamination to get results that quick if you are doing a cool ferment.

kladue said:

The inside of hoses is the hardest thing to clean, also where the hose is forced over the racking can can create a pocket for material to build up and cause problems. The other sources of contamination are starter cultures and aeration of cold wort, lacto bacteria are present on the malted grains and dust contamination of cold wort is bad news. If the beer is going sour in the primary/secondary stage it would have to be a fairly large source of contamination to get results that quick if you are doing a cool ferment.

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I hydrate my yeast by boiling some water in a pot with the glass pint measuring cup added late. I then pour it full of boiling water and pour it out down to the 1/2 cup mark. I cover it with plastic wrap and let it cool to about 80 degrees before sprinking on the yeast. Sounds pretty safe.

I did drill holes in the bottom of the siphon hose (aeration) but it was after the kolsch that is almost definitely sour. I usually run clean tap water through the hose after use and hang it out to air dry until next use. Before use, I just soak it in Star san. Maybe I need a new hose and drill in a piece of copper so I can clean it better. And maybe I need to use a brush inside the siphon hose. I'm not sure what else to do better. My hands are sore from all the star san and putting my hands in and out of it grabbing soaking items..

I clean as I go but not usually during wort cooling or siphoning. I usually rinse the mash bucket during the boil.

Side note:
I've been taking a dietary supplement called Probiotic. It contains bacteria that aids digestion and showed up when I was reading up on Lactobacillus. It is a capsule and I would think it could not leach out of my hands or skin but who knows??

Sounds like you need to do a caustic soak of the hoses and equipment to remove organic material after use, PBW, or Washing Soda, or powdered dishwashing compounds in hot water for 2+ hour soak will do the job. Follow caustic soak with rinse of starsan in water to remove caustic residue and let items air dry without a water rinse. You might want to go back to iodophor sanitizing because it is easy to judge concentration by color instead of by measure and exposure time needed is usually under 5 minutes. Other possibility is hand contamination from touching mouth then touching utensils used on cold side of wort preperation and handling.

Ditch your funnel. If it is scratched somewhere, you might soak that bastard, and anything shy of an autoclave won't be enough to sterilize it.

I had a fermentation bucket that had one single fine scratch in the plastic, and I could NEVER get it sanitized again. I ruined one batch with a nasty infection, and a second ruined by using it as a secondary. After that, I said "fark this" and went with glass.

I've been using the same buckets and hoses for quite a while and have not had an infection since I started cleaning my hoses and any crevices such as valves/fittings with a brush.

Get some line brushes appropriate for the size of your hoses and clean them well, rinse them well and then sanitize them with a no rinse sanitizer.

And don't judge your beer by smell in the primary!

TheFlatline said:

Ditch your funnel. If it is scratched somewhere, you might soak that bastard, and anything shy of an autoclave won't be enough to sterilize it.

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I bought some stainless funnels off eBay so I could sterilize them in the pressure canner.