Critique my single tier pump plan

At this rate of work, I'll be brewing on it in mid 2009 some time. Oh well, wife, kids, biz travel does that.

I spent two hours with the angle grinder with coarse disks to strip to top end of the stand down to bare metal. The high temp BBQ paint can't be put over any other kind of paint that will fail under high heat. I still have to strip the cradles for the two tippy dump end vessels but we'll get there.

Looks like we're at about the same stage in this build. Only I plan on brewing on it weekend after next.

I didn't sand my last one good, and you're right, the high temp paint comes right off as the stuff underneath burns up. I took this one down to bare metal where it's going to get hot before I started painting.

Limping along... Been working on the burner hanging system and the two end tippy dump cradles. The "safe" citrusy paint strippers the box stores sell suck badly so I've had to grind it all off.

Anyway, I got the castors on. Here's the progress while I give my old standby the last ride (hopefully). I've told myself that many times already.

Just a bump to show some equipment porn. This is the kettle put back together after the polishing project:



Here's a closeup of the sight glass protector secured to the top of the keg. I drilled and tapped the top skirt for a 10-24 stinless screw. I used some beerline as a spacer. Now I can clumsily bump into this thing all day without breaking my glass.

I was going for dramatic effect ;-)

Anyone else reminded of this?

His old setup kind of reminded me of this.

That's right MFer. Arachnokeggle is comin to getcha.

Bobby, or anyone, can I see inside the HLT to see what you are using to get the water from the bottom of the keggle to the outlet that has to be drilled above the bottom?

thanks,

JnJ said:

Bobby, or anyone, can I see inside the HLT to see what you are using to get the water from the bottom of the keggle to the outlet that has to be drilled above the bottom?

thanks,

Click to expand...

You need an internal siphon tube:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Keggle#Syphon_tube

Along with that, you need to make sure you have some tubing on the outlet that drops down lower than the very bottom of the keg to keep it going.

You can build the syphon or "dip tube" out of an "L" of rigid copper pipe using an elbow or use some left over flexible copper.

Frankly, I'm pissed that I didn't just get my HLT and MLT's drain bulkheads put in the bottom.

Bobby_M said:

You need an internal siphon tube:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Keggle#Syphon_tube

Along with that, you need to make sure you have some tubing on the outlet that drops down lower than the very bottom of the keg to keep it going.

You can build the syphon or "dip tube" out of an "L" of rigid copper pipe using an elbow or use some left over flexible copper.

Frankly, I'm pissed that I didn't just get my HLT and MLT's drain bulkheads put in the bottom.

Click to expand...

Thanks, but what exactly did you use? also, wouldn't having the bulkheads in the bottom cause an issue if direct heated?

Only because I scored a pile of stainless 5/8" compression fittings did I decide to go with the rigid pipe. If I had the same fittings in 1/2" stainless compression, I would have used a short piece of soft copper instead. There's really no difference and I don't mind sweating an elbow. If you're gonna have the end of the tube come really close to the bottom, you might want to drill a few 1/8" holes around the very bottom so it doesn't close off the flow. Here's a similar one that uses a male adapter instead of a compression fitting. That works too and is as cheap as it gets.



You won't have to remove the tube in an HLT as often to clean it like you would with a kettle.

No, I don't forsee any problem running the drain along the bottom where the flame hits (In an HLT). It will heat the water in the pipe and if it boils, it will just come out of the hole inside the keg.

The one I made for my MLT can be seen here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=56183

Cool, thanks!

Merrily, I crawl along...

I used some 12" x 1/2" threaded rod mounted into the bottom of the stand with two nuts. Then I used opposing wingnuts on the top to hold a single piece of angle down the center just under the keg locations. I was going to HANG this rail from the top but that would require bringing the whole thing over to my dad's to weld a single nut on each side and didn't feel like it.


The three burners are going to sit on this rail. I'll be drilling up through the bottom and into the center of the burner where I'll tap 1/4-20 threads in. Of course I'll use a thread sealant on the bolts to keep gas from shooting out where it ain't supposed to.

Oh, and I put a bottom shelf on the stand using some galvanized sheet. I tacked it down to the frame with a few rivets. I would have gone with stainless diamond plate if I unlimited funds but, no.

I'm actually finished with the plumbing but I didn't snap a pic yet. It is not easy getting all the fittings/burners to line up exactly when you're working with stock nipple lengths and such. Again... I regret selling my pipe threader. Ugh. It's also very annoying how different the tolerances can be on the same type of fittings. I had one close nipple thread in extremely deep while the other two barely grabbed 3 revolutions. Not good when you want all the burners to sit on the same plane.

That looks real nice. I cant wait to see the pictures of the plumbing. You will appreciate having it on those casters.

I noticed the same thing with the differences in thread tolerances - very frustrating. I got some closed nipples from HD and others from Lowes. There was a substantial difference in how deep they would go. I think I nearly gave myself a hernia on some fittings tightning them down where they were all the same.

The worst part is that my issue was with close nipples that threaded into brass valves so the amount of wrenching I could do was limited. Pics of the finished plumbing will go here tonight.

The burners are centered under the vessels give or take 1/4".

Obviously due to the center support, I had to angle the center burner off the main trunk.




Yeah, I know it looks odd. I've never seen anyone use gate valves on their gas line and I can already hear the cries of the overly cautious letting me know that they're not rated for NG. No worries. These are full flow valves that use a solid brass wedge. I used them because the flow adjustment turned out to be a lot more smooth and gradual giving me more granular control over the flame. I don't intend to leave this system under pressure between brew sessions and will rely on a gas rated ball valve at the source to keep things from getting dangerous.

I may still plumb some 1/4" copper tubing to all the burners to run pilot flames but that's something I can do later. I'll just tap off the end of the main manifold using a needle valve with a compression fitting leading to the copper.

Looking good! I have been collecting free bed frames from Craigslist to put together a stand.

Looking really, really awesome Bobby.

Did you have a separate thread on the keg polishing? If not, how did you do that?

Dude said:

Looking really, really awesome Bobby.

Did you have a separate thread on the keg polishing? If not, how did you do that?

Click to expand...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=54025

Atl300zx said:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=54025

Click to expand...

AKA - the "Pimp my Keg" thread.

I couldn't do much more until I finished repainting and we were having some cold damp days for a while.







I used semi gloss black engine paint and then two coats of high temp clear gloss for more protection. A few days of curing and I'll be putting it together and adding the pump.

Nothing too major but I finally got my gas hose all figured out and test fired the burners.

Looking good, Bobby!

Quote: Frankly, I'm pissed that I didn't just get my HLT and MLT's drain bulkheads put in the bottom.

^ That is exactly what I was thinking about doing for my brutus type build. Seems like it would simplify the setup. My only concern is the flame would be in direct contact with that pipe on the bottom of the mash tun heating up the wort within it too much. Do you think that is a valid concern? Although I would be recirculating thoughout the mash....

I think it would be easy enough to slightly modify ANY burner to stop a direct flame from hitting the drain pipe. I could also see maybe tacking a piece of SS angle over it as a slight heat shield. In anycase, the flame will be very low when recirculating.

Hmmm. The more I think about it, the more I like it. Probably gonna do it for all three vessels....

Thanks. (BTW, paypal sent for the fittings)

What was the source of those swivel casters?

Found two murderized shopping carts in the scrap metal pile behind Lowes. Looks like a tractor trailer backed into them. I "might" have stolen the front wheels off of them.

Bitchin' looking! I really like the black!

I popped the brewstand's cherry this past Sunday, at least the Kettle and HLT. I didn't want to have my MLT not work in front of a dozen spectators so I decided to use the tried and true cooler MLT. It was awesome being able to pump liquids everywhere instead of dumping.



Also, a few shots of my vessel interiors.

Kettle


HLT


MLT

Did you have any issues with priming the pump?

Hey Bobby,

How are you affixing your keggles to the tippy-dump assemblies? I am interested to see those in action.

Priming is always a pain but once you get it, just make sure the head never goes dry again. As you let liquid enter the head from the bottom, make sure the output hose goes straight up with the end open to the air. You'll see bubbles working their way out and then finally it will pump.

I'm going to attach the kegs to the tippy dump frame with stainless bolts right through the bottom skirt. I haven't gotten there just yet. The kegs are currently just resting on the stand.

The paint actually held up really well to the heat so far.

I asked about the priming issue cuz my first time with the pump was a week or so ago and it was a pain, i was making a mess and burning my hands. I was basically disconnecting the hose from the outlet and then putting back on quick before i made a mess ( i did anyways), or holding the outlet down below the pump. Anyways it prompted me to get a tee and a purge valve, i havnt used it yet but it was simple and only cost a few bucks, it should work like a charm i hope.

Since I have a ball valve directly after the pump, I hold the outlet hose up and run the pump. You'll hear the cavitation, then finally more and more water enters the head (while bubbles leave). As soon as I hear it "grab", I shut the valve and put the outlet hose disconnect on the receiving vessel. No burnt hands or liquid messes. The problem with the purge is that you have to catch the liquid somewhere and the outlet is really close to the pump so you have no warning that it's ready to blow.

I think there's a misconception that holding the outlet hose below the pump will somehow help, but priming a pump requires the trapped air to escape and when you have air and water mixed, the air wants to go UP not down.

Has anyone ever tried a squeeze bulb type siphon starter to vacuum prime a pump? Seems like it might work for those who have a hard time with priming on their setups.

Never tried it, it just popped into my head.

You know, as silly as it sounds, I never thought to even take a quick pull on the output line using my mouth. Sure, it's not safe when the input is boiling wort, but you can prime the pump head before you even start brewing.

Yes you can pull the liquid wiht your mouth to prime to the pump, haha i tried that too. HOlding the outlet house below the pump does work (well actually anywhere below the dip tube in the sending vessel. Essentially starting a siphon from the bottom of what you are pumping from. The problem i had was that i was expecting to open my valve before turning the pump on and have fill wiht liquid to prime, but that doesnt work. WHen i have all my hose connected ie.. hlt to inside mash tun and then open the hlt ball valve nothing flows into the tubing, bone dry, unless the outlet goes below the hlt to start the siphoning process. So I assume wiht the purge valve i should by able to open hlt and open purge and let gravity fill the pump collect a lil bit of liquid and then shut purge valve and the pump should be primed. That way you shouldnt have to turn the pump on and it shouldnt shoot in my face.

Ill get back with how well the purge valve works when i use it this weekend, as i have not used it yet but damn im fired up to brew after this conversation.

tbulger, you may want to do a quick test with water before the real deal this weekend. Lost water is much less sad and frustrating than lost wort.