How long in the Fridge?

Does everyone store their brews in teh fridge till you are ready to drink them?
If so, how long do they sit in the fridge?

I don't cold-condition my beers. I put them in a dark closet until they're ready to drink, and then refrigerate them. I usually let them sit at least three weeks before I drink them, but in the fridge, I can see that being longer, since the yeast (at least ale yeast) will have a harder time at those temperatures.

well, I also condition in my closet for about 3-4 weeks, but last time I think the fridge took away my carbonation, because after I took the bottles out of the fridge for a few days the beer bottles got hard again.

I'm no chemist, but I'm not sure that's possible. When your beer conditions in the closet, the yeast consume the sugar you added for priming, and the result is that a small amount of CO2 is created. If your caps are sealed tightly, I don't think the CO2 will disappear just because it's cold.

well, thats what I thought, but the beer was flat and I could press in teh sides to my plastic PET bottles. When I took the bottles out of the fridge for a few days/weeks the bottles got rock hard again.

The only other thing I can think of is I didnt let them carbonate long enough before putting them in the fridge the first time.

JHWK said:

well, thats what I thought, but the beer was flat and I could press in teh sides to my plastic PET bottles. When I took the bottles out of the fridge for a few days/weeks the bottles got rock hard again.

The only other thing I can think of is I didnt let them carbonate long enough before putting them in the fridge the first time.

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That is possible or more likely the carbonation dissolved in the cold beer. As the temperature of a liquid decreases it has a tendency to absorb more gasses. As the co2 is already in solution a cold beer will have a harder time releasing it until it warms up. (I'm a chemist btw.)

Another concern I've had is that the swirlling motion of the siphon isn't vigorous enough assure complete distribution of the sugar throughout the solution of beer. Could happen even though the laws of entropy assure even distribution eventually.
Try stirring the beer with a spoon (NO SPLASHING!) to assure even mixing.

RickWG said:

That is possible or more likely the carbonation dissolved in the cold beer. As the temperature of a liquid decreases it has a tendency to absorb more gasses. As the co2 is already in solution a cold beer will have a harder time releasing it until it warms up. (I'm a chemist btw.)

Another concern I've had is that the swirlling motion of the siphon isn't vigorous enough assure complete distribution of the sugar throughout the solution of beer. Could happen even though the laws of entropy assure even distribution eventually.
Try stirring the beer with a spoon (NO SPLASHING!) to assure even mixing.

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Hooray for chemists!

Question: why don't commercial beers tend to have the same problem when placed in a refrigerator?

ayrton said:

Hooray for chemists!

Question: why don't commercial beers tend to have the same problem when placed in a refrigerator?

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My guess would be that they aren't carbonated with yeast/sugar/fermentation but with CO2 by force. By the same logic cooling the beer while force carbonating would allow more gas to be dissolved in the beer while cold, saturated solution, and slight agitation, pouring, allows it to come out of solution easier, nucleation.

Well, with all this being said. Aside from froced carbonation, what can I do to stop this carbonation from leaving?

I let my beer bottle condition at room temperature for a few weeks before putting them in the fridge to chill for drinking, and then only chill what I'm going to be drinking for the next week or so. The hefe I recently brewed did the same thing; I put one bottled in plastic in the fridge 2 weeks after bottling, and it "lost" a good portion of the carbonation, despite the bottle being quite firm at room temp. However, the beer I put in the fridge a week later was perfectly carbed, even after several days of being chilled.

JHWK said:

Well, with all this being said. Aside from froced carbonation, what can I do to stop this carbonation from leaving?

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Theoretically the carbonation is still there if the seal on the bottle is air tight and if the sugar got mixed with every bottle of beer.

I put two in the fridge on Friday and the one I had on saturday was fine but the one I had on Sunday was a bit flat. Don't know what happened. I have taken and vigorously shaken each of the bottles for my first batch and seen a "head" form in the bottles. The carbonation shouldn't go "anywhere" but back into the beer if the seal is good. I was wondering if the seal gets too cold if it contracts and you lose pressure that way. I dunno, experiments need to be done yet.

ayrton said:

Hooray for chemists!

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I think what we need here is a physicist. No not a super fancy one, just one with some understanding of Charle's Law.

Yes do you remember that from physics class?
http://members.aol.com/profchm/charles.html

What I think is happening is that at room temperature the gas in your plastic bottles is expanding as much as the bottle will let it. When you put it in the refrigerator you are decreasing the temperature (obviously) but you are also decreasing the pressure inside the bottles. Making it appear that you have "lost" carbonation, when really the carbonation is there but is now taking up a smaller volume.

I don't know how cold you have you refrigerator, but turning the thermostat up (making fridge slightly warmer) might help you out...for two reasons.

Good beer should not be drank ice cold...
Ever left a commerical beer in a place in the fridge that was too cold and it had some ice form in it. Obviously the seal has been maintained and there was co2 in there, but upon pouring it you don't get that much fizz or carbonation release?

Also if it doesn't "taste carbonated" it is probably too cold and you could be in effect numbing your tongue. This is why bad beer can be drank at really cold temperatures and it may still taste fine.

This has only happened with plastic bottles?

Forget the plastic bottles. Rigid bottles will better force CO2 pressure to be absorbed into the beer.
Mix your 3/4 cup sugar thoroughly in the bottling bucket.
Bottle and cap.
Store at 70+ degrees for at least three weeks.
Agitate the bottles as they are conditoning every 2-3 days. (rock the bottles slightly to reagitate the yeast).
Chill the bottles 3-4 days before ready to serve.

Unless your caps are loose, CO2 doesn't "go away".

these living ales we make like cellar temps imo. 50-55 F.. drop them in the fridge an hour or two before you serve them if you like em colder, but i think they're designed to be had slightly warmer than the averidge lager.

I don't have any trouble with my PET bottles. I carb my beer and let it sit at brewing temps. If possible at the high end of the temp range. I wait at least two weeks before popping them in the fridge.

I'm fortunate to have a HB fridge, so I every beer I make goes into it after carbing. The whole batch! For the most part every beer I have to drink gets 1.5-3.0 months time in the fridge prior to drinking. Makes really crisp clear beers!!

I've only had two carb problems so far; One of my ciders is over carbed. The bottles are swelled like a puffed up blow-fish. As a result of this I intentionally under carbed my carmel apple cider but I used too little sugar this time. Its not flat just low carbed. NO PUN INTENDED! I believe on the first one just I bottled too early.

I have PET bottles that are right at 1 year now. They are still rock fricken hard.

I've read with PET they will last a year and then some w/o loosing carbonation. Refridgeration probably helps moreso. However the caps will get fatigued from repeated use. The seal will degrade after many uses. The advice given was to replace caps after a couple years. They are so cheap, why not.

If I know that I'm going to store bottles for a long time, like a cider or a stout, I'll bottle in glass. My Apfelwein will go into glass. SWMBO will slowly drink it over the year if not longer. Cider also is supposed to get really good at 1 yr old.

I'll use a few PET's with my Apfel wine as a test for carbing.

PET are super strong and good for experimenting and newbies. I saw a post awhile back where these guys at an auto-body shop (slow day) screwed a tire valve on a PET bottle cap. Attached a hose to it waited for them to pop. They were making PET M-80s!! - Kabboom!!! They claimed it popped at over 90psi, some at 110psi. Another person chimed in stating they work at PET bottle Mfg'r and the they pressure test them to 80psi.

As a point of reference draft systems carb at ~15psi. If the beer is made right and the caps are not too old you shouldn't have issues with PET bottling & carbonation.

putting beers in the fridge too early can prevent or slow carbonation, putting them in the fridge after they've been in the closest for a week or two cannot remove the carbonation.