"Kitchen Sink Rye Pale Ale"

I'm going to Minneapolis in a couple of weeks, and I'll be stopping in to Northern Brewer and Midwest to replenish supplies.

So I just did an inventory, and I have "a little of this, a little of that". I'd like to use up the small amounts of ingredients, but make a drinkable pale ale/amber. Here's what I've come up with so far (10.5 gallon batch):

8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 38.2 %
5 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 23.9 %
4 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 3 19.1 %
2 lbs Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 4 9.6 %
8.0 oz Caramunich II (Weyermann) (63.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.4 %
7.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.1 %
4.0 oz Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM) Grain 7 1.2 %
4.0 oz Carared (Weyermann) (24.0 SRM) Grain 8 1.2 %
4.0 oz Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 9 1.2 %
4.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 10 1.2 %

1.00 oz Magnum [11.60 %] - FWH Hop 11 19.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.60 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 12 5.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 13 5.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 14 2.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade (Homegrown) [5.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 1.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.60 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs


OG: 1.052
IBU: 34
Color: 8.7 SRM
What do you think? Drinkable? Too sweet? All ideas are appreciated!

Probably a little too sweet for my tastes, although my tastes aren't terribly important, as I don't plan on swinging by the UP for a pint anytime soon. I'd consider moving some of the magnum to a regular 60-minute addition, or leaving out some of the sinkier grains that you'll probably have a use for later. I don't advocate wastefulness, but the total retail value of your last six malts is about $4. I'd rather have 10 gallons of better beer than try to earn back that $4.

I think it will be a touch sweet but not overly. The bigger concern would be that the malt profile will be confusing. Just too many elements all mashed together. I think it would be drinkable but cause palate fatigue. With ample time to condition the malt profile might coalesce into a deep subtle flavor combination. Personally, I tend to cap the number of malts at 5 for ordinary strength beers and might go with 6 malts for something bigger. I think you could either scrap the Munich or the Vienna. After that I would cut out at least three of the other specialty grains to try and create a better defined malt profile. The hops look great and as long as your mash is 154 or lower I really think it should finish crisp. Good luck!

I rarely use honey malt, and I'm unsure if it "fits" or not. I liked it when I did use it, but I'm concerned it may be a bit too sweet for my taste as well.

I've used Munich/Vienna/two-row before in combination but it wasn't really my goal to do so- I just only have 8 pounds of two-row left and I don't want too much Munich II.

I didn't think there would be much difference in Carahell/Carared/CaraMunich and just sort of lumped them together in my mind as crystal malts to use up. I often use a mix of crystal malts in APAs and ambers for complexity, but usually it's like 40L/80L mixed. I love victory malt, but I'm just about out so I was hoping the special roast could be a sort of sub for that biscuity toastiness I get from victory malt.

I would mash at 152, and use a clean well attenuating ale yeast (probably WLP001),

Thank you for your thoughts! It definitely gives me more to think about.

7oz of honey malt doesn't seem like it would be too sweet with that grain bill in 10.5 gal. I do tend to like semi-sweet beer, though. It all sounds delicious to me Yooper!

For a kitchen sink beer that looks pretty tasty. Maybe up the hops a bit to counter any percieved sweetness

2

bbrim said:

I think it will be a touch sweet but not overly. The bigger concern would be that the malt profile will be confusing. Just too many elements all mashed together. I think it would be drinkable but cause palate fatigue. With ample time to condition the malt profile might coalesce into a deep subtle flavor combination. Personally, I tend to cap the number of malts at 5 for ordinary strength beers and might go with 6 malts for something bigger. I think you could either scrap the Munich or the Vienna. After that I would cut out at least three of the other specialty grains to try and create a better defined malt profile. The hops look great and as long as your mash is 154 or lower I really think it should finish crisp. Good luck!

Click to expand...

If you are trying to reduce the complexity of this recipe I think the munich and vienna is the wrong place to look. I'd axe the honey because this seems like it will be sweet enough without it. Save the honey for a pale ale down the road.

Taking the non-purist route, I'd say go for it! Yeah it'll be complex, and some things may get lost as a result of the myriad ingredients, but it might turn out REALLY good anyway. I'm not usually worried about a pale ale or amber being too sweet, personally, and I doubt it will be sugary and cloying...just perhaps not as dry as some may prefer. I did a similar kitchen sink routine with a barleywine and I loved it so much... So my vote is for throwing caution to the wind and giving it a shot!

Drop the Vienna and Rye down a bit and increase the Pale, then add a bit more hops to balance the sweetness.

PaulyWantsABeer said:

Drop the Vienna and Rye down a bit and increase the Pale, then add a bit more hops to balance the sweetness.

Click to expand...

I would, if I HAD more two row. That's the reason there is only 8 pounds- that's all I have. The Vienna is to make up the OG and the rye is because I want to use 20% rye!

I wouldn't think less than 1.5 lbs of crystal type malt would be overboard in a 10 gallon batch of amber ale, personally I would like a few more IBUs.

It think there is just too much going on here.

I'd just drop the Cascade additions since you want to empty the cupboard and 2 oz of Cascade shouldn't be hard to use up. Maybe move the Fuggles ahead to increase the bitterness and reduce hoppiness a bit.

Yooper said:

I would, if I HAD more two row. That's the reason there is only 8 pounds- that's all I have. The Vienna is to make up the OG and the rye is because I want to use 20% rye!

Click to expand...

Oh I see......brew it and see what happens

Cellarbrau said:

It think there is just too much going on here.

I'd just drop the Cascade additions since you want to empty the cupboard and 2 oz of Cascade shouldn't be hard to use up. Maybe move the Fuggles ahead to increase the bitterness and reduce hoppiness a bit.

Click to expand...

Well, I brewed this with minor changes (didn't have any carahell after all, etc) so here was the final recipe:

8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 38.1 %
5 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 5 23.8 %
4 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 6 19.0 %
2 lbs Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 7 9.5 %
8.0 oz Caramunich II (Weyermann) (63.0 SRM) Grain 8 2.4 %
7.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 9 2.1 %
7.0 oz Carared (Weyermann) (24.0 SRM) Grain 10 2.1 %
6.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 11 1.8 %
4.0 oz Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 12 1.2 %
1.00 oz Magnum [11.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 13 19.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.60 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 14 5.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 15 5.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 16 2.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade (Homegrown) [5.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 17 1.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.60 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #S-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 19 -

OG 1.054 FG 1.010 IBUs 35


It's very clear, and so I kegged it. Uncarbed, it's really good. The only thing I feel is that it's not hoppy enough for me- I should have increased the late hops, particularly the cascade and willamette. The rye really comes through, which surprised me. It's pretty mild and mellow, though, and goes really nice with the crystal and honey malt. I'll be interested to try it in a few days when it's carbed up to see how it ends up.