Gelatin is no joke!

waldoar15 said:

I use it in the secondary and have no problems getting bottled beer to carb up, even combined with cold crashing.

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did you notice that it takes longer to carbonate after using gelatine in secondary?

I just used gelatin in my secondary for a batch of Ed wort's haus pale ale. I didn't find it took longer to carbonate with gelatin. The beer became clear after about 1 week in the secondary, even though I left it in there for 3 weeks. after 3 weeks in the bottle the beer was carbonated normally and didn't have any gelatin "residueness". The gelatin must have been left behind with the trub....

seanybubbles said:

I just used gelatin in my secondary for a batch of Ed wort's haus pale ale. I didn't find it took longer to carbonate with gelatin. The beer became clear after about 1 week in the secondary, even though I left it in there for 3 weeks. after 3 weeks in the bottle the beer was carbonated normally and didn't have any gelatin "residueness". The gelatin must have been left behind with the trub....

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now, that's something!

could you please explain how did you prepare and mix gelatine to beer?

GNBrews said:

If you allow the chill haze to form (ie. crash cool) before adding the gelatin, it will also remove the chill haze proteins.

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I dont have so much a problem of cloudy beer when it is at room temp, that all settles out and my bottles are clear as day, but I get an awful chill haze as soon as I stick them in the fridge. Is this whole thread aimed at removing that pre-bottling clouding?

All I want is a remedy for chill haze.

Does anybody have any advice to try adding the gelatin AFTER carbonating in the keg?

I have an Extra Pale Ale that is cloudy which is mostly chill haze as I also filter to at least 1 micron between secondary and the keg before force carbing. I made 10 gallons of the AG batch and wouldn't mind adding the gelatin to one of the 5 gal kegs and seeing if it does anything. I just don't want to ruin the beer if the carbonation will make it junk.

Thoughts?

harpo said:

Does anybody have any advice to try adding the gelatin AFTER carbonating in the keg?

I have an Extra Pale Ale that is cloudy which is mostly chill haze as I also filter to at least 1 micron between secondary and the keg before force carbing. I made 10 gallons of the AG batch and wouldn't mind adding the gelatin to one of the 5 gal kegs and seeing if it does anything. I just don't want to ruin the beer if the carbonation will make it junk.

Thoughts?

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I don't know for certain, but I would guess that adding gelatin to a keg would cause a good amount of sediment at the bottom after 48 hours or so. I would think once you were done pulling the sediment around the dip tube the beer would be crystal clear. I believe chill haze is caused by short chain proteins that aren't big enough to drop out of suspension on their own but do drop out when using a clarifier. Are you force carbing?

400d said:

did you notice that it takes longer to carbonate after using gelatine in secondary?

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No, but I mostly bottle lower alcohol session beers and lighter ales. I did a cream of three crops that was cold crashed with gelatin. It was clear as a bell. I opened one after a week just to check and was surprised by how much carbonation it had at that early stage.

That was fermented with SA-05.

I have some gelatin in my kitchen, but on the declaration it is written that it is made of edible corn starch....

my girlfriend use this for making cakes and soups......

can I use this for my beer?

harpo - Don't add it to beer that's already carbed.

400d - No, that's a gelatin substitute, you need the real deal. Corn starch would make an absolute mess of your beer.

GNBrews said:

harpo - Don't add it to beer that's already carbed.

400d - No, that's a gelatin substitute, you need the real deal. Corn starch would make an absolute mess of your beer.

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Gotcha. Next batch will be ready in a week. Will try it then...

does gelatin in primary/secondary still help if you use whirlifloc during the last 10 minutes of the boil? or is whirlifloc enough?

Is gelatin fine to use in primary, much after fermentation is complete. I'm talking about primary for 3-4 weeks total, and adding the gelatin within the last few days. Also, if that would be fine, would it be bad to pitch another beer on that yeast cake?

harpo said:

Does anybody have any advice to try adding the gelatin AFTER carbonating in the keg?

I have an Extra Pale Ale that is cloudy which is mostly chill haze as I also filter to at least 1 micron between secondary and the keg before force carbing. I made 10 gallons of the AG batch and wouldn't mind adding the gelatin to one of the 5 gal kegs and seeing if it does anything. I just don't want to ruin the beer if the carbonation will make it junk.

Thoughts?

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I have done exactly that with an Irish Red. It was really an experiment to see what would happen as I could have lived with the cloudy beer.

I prepared gelatin per "SOP", bloom 1 tbsp. in 12 oz cold tap water for 30 min, then heat to 190F, then cooled to ~100F. It was almost a full keg so I didn't think 12oz of 100F solution wasn't going to affect the temp of ~4 gal (512oz) of beer.

I relieved pressure from the keg and had a another lid soaking in a bit of starsan standing by, probably didn't need it but what the heck.

Poured the gelatin in and the beer foamed a bit but not a gusher. Slapped on new lid and purged and pressurized with CO2 as normal.

I took a 1/2 pint a day from the keg every day and by day 5 clear beer with no perceptable off flavors to my palatte.

BUT, that last pint when I killed the keg was some real nasty cloudy "soup"

I might as well give my first use experience.
Whirlfloc in the last 10 minutes of the boil. 12 days in Primary. I mixed one package of Knox unflavored gelatin with 1 cup hot tap water. Nuked for about 30 seconds and stirred it up till disolved. I dumped it in the bottom of the keg while hot and racked the beer (64F) on top of it. I left for vacation for a week and left the keg on LOW pressure and at about 35F. I came home and the first 3 pints were muddy water and tasted like it as well. The 4th pint looked "normal" from before my gelatin use. Very slight haze but it tasted good. Pint 5 was clear as a bell.
I will not go without it ever again.

Following the instructions noted here in this and other threads I just added it to two primaries that I brewed back on 12/5. The beer is at 38 degrees so we'll see how well this'll work.

I had good results adding gelatin to my keg just after transfer too. I did (as someone here suggested) use only 1/2 teaspoon of gelatin. Just wanted to add my experience that a little goes a long way. Very clear beer after a couple days all the way except for that last pint of gunk.

Was reading the thread and got tired of back reading so sorry if this has been answered but here is my 2 cents. I made a blonde ale on 1/6 and racked it over to the secondary on 1/14 and added some gelatin to the secondary the same way the opening post did it (i just racked it over though and put the gelatin in and swirled it a little). After about 48 hours and it was crystal clear, so I am a believer of gelatin as well. As far as bottling I did it for my first nut brown AG (didn't re-circulate enough before i started sparging) so it was a little too cloudy for my liking. The gelatin did its thing and bottled. After about one week in the bottles it seemed to be carbonating just fine and didn't have any off tastes so I don't think it effects the carbonation process all that much. Now just waiting for it to age/carbonate some more.

It seems like gelatin is working for most but I see a few different methods. I have used gelatin a few times with great results. I use one Knox packet for 5 gallons prepped as discussed above.
It is my understanding that the gelatin should be added to the top of the beer at a higher temperature than the beer. This causes the liquids to striate originally. Then as the temperatures begin to equal out the gelatin will fall through the beer and pick up the particles in suspension.
I also have read that colder beer temperatures work best but I have only used gelatin at fermenting temperatures.

Hello,

I am a bit confused for my situation as to when I should add the gelatin mixture....if someone can help I'd appreciate it...thsi is what i do:

I brew on a RIMS, I plate chill and oxygenate as it goes into a 1/2bbl sanke primary where the beer sits for 3 weeks (I do not use a secondary). I cold crash for 48 hours @ 40*. I rack the beer into two corney kegs using C02, stick the kegs in the fridge @ 40* for a week....force carbonate and drink.

Where in "my" process and how much (10gal) gelatin should be added?


Thanks for the help!

ILOVEBEER said:

Hello,

I am a bit confused for my situation as to when I should add the gelatin mixture....if someone can help I'd appreciate it...thsi is what i do:

I brew on a RIMS, I plate chill and oxygenate as it goes into a 1/2bbl sanke primary where the beer sits for 3 weeks (I do not use a secondary). I cold crash for 48 hours @ 40*. I rack the beer into two corney kegs using C02, stick the kegs in the fridge @ 40* for a week....force carbonate and drink.

Where in "my" process and how much (10gal) gelatin should be added?


Thanks for the help!

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I haven't actually done it yet, but I will be doing this during my first attempt. My process (plate-chill, oxygenate, primary...etc) is the same as yours except I do primary in a 1/2bbl sanke for one week (or at least until i hit my FG#), then I transfer to secondary which is also a 1.2bbl sanke. I leave it in secondary for at least a week, depending on brew schedule (I brew every two weeks) and then I filter with a 0.5 micron filter and rack to 2 corny kegs. This is where I will be adding my gelatin. I will be preparing 1 package of knox gelatin for each corny (2 x 5 gallons), leaving it about 10° higher in temp than the beer, put the gelatin on top of the beer in the corny, which will be at 67° at the time I filter/rack to cornys. Then I pressurize to about 20PSI c02, chill to 37°, 24 hours later I start my force-carb for about a week.

Like I said, I haven't done this YET, but I saw that you do much the same process I do so i thought I'd offer up what I will be doing.

I'm racking to secondary today. After reading a lot, I decided to give gelatin a try. Some people had no problems with bottling/carbonating, while some people got completely flat beer.

I'm afraid a little.

I decided to take some yeast from primary and save it for bottling day. I though of adding this yeast to my bottling bucket, but I don't know how much should I add, and how?

Any advice?

Never used gelatin myself, but I just listened to the BN podcast w/ Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River and he said he added gelatin to the bottling bucket when he was a homebrewer. He also mentioned that the yeast cake got locked up in the gelatin in the bottom and made for very clear pours out of the bottle.

I can't agree more. I usually have pretty clear beer, but when it refuses to clear up there is nothing like gelatin to remove cloudiness. I use store bought stuff, no fancy (overpriced and repackaged) LHBS stuff.

harpo,

I do not use a secondary and I do not filter. Is filtering really necessary even with the addition of the gelatin?

It seems that filtering would accomplish what the gelatin is going to do....kinda redundant or am I way off on this one?


Thanks

what do you think of saving some yeast from primary, then secondary with gelatin, and at the end bottle with some saved yeast in the bottling bucket just before bottling?

ILOVEBEER - Filtering will get out your chill haze while gelatin will not...it all depends on how much it matters to you and if you are willing to add the expense and pain of filtering to get crystal clear beer. If you filter there would be no reason to put in gelatin.

I'd be ok with getting the suspended proteins out and getting some clarity...it doesnt have to be perfect, just see thru

I was wondering.

Why can't I add the gelatin to the sanke fermenter, cold crash it for the time necessary and then rack it into my corney kegs?

This way there would be MINIMAL stuff in the keg.

ILOVEBEER said:

I was wondering.

Why can't I add the gelatin to the sanke fermenter, cold crash it for the time necessary and then rack it into my corney kegs?

This way there would be MINIMAL stuff in the keg.

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Thats what I would do. I have only used it at ferment temps with good results. I have read however, that gelatin does better at cold temps so if you could cold crash the fermentor, add gelatin, let sit a day or two and then rack to cornys it may be better. No experience here myself.

So lets say for example I leave my beer in the fermenter for 19 days at day 20 add gelatin and let sit for 2 days at fermentation temps (which would give me my 3 weeks in the primary as I always do). After that time cold crash for 2-3 days...then rack into corney kegs.

I am going to try it this way...anybody think this will work?

Thanks
Joe

I am going to rack to secondary in a couple days and want to try gelatin. I see some people say cold crash and some not. Also wondering how cold crashing and temperature fluctuation is going to affect the yeast at bottling time
Should I leave in secondary for a 1.5 weeks, add gelatin and cold crash for a couple days, then bottle at room temp?
Rack onto gelatin mixture and cold crash for a couple days, bring secondary back to room temp for a couple weeks then bottle?
Or just rack on it and not cold crash?


Not leaving in primary so I can free it up for new brew.

ILOVEBEER said:

So lets say for example I leave my beer in the fermenter for 19 days at day 20 add gelatin and let sit for 2 days at fermentation temps (which would give me my 3 weeks in the primary as I always do). After that time cold crash for 2-3 days...then rack into corney kegs.

I am going to try it this way...anybody think this will work?

Thanks
Joe

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This is what I do and it works quite well. It also glues the yeast cake down so its harder to pick anything up while racking. Just make sure to add gelatin at a higher temp so it can have time to equalize and do its thing.

Very cool!!! Thank you for the advice. I do not rerack my yeast as of yet so I am not overly concerned with reuse at this point. I am going to do it exactly as you and see how it works for me. Thanks again!

Joe

Has anybody tried gelatin vegetarian substitutes? The only substitute I have found so far is called Kojel and is supposedly a gelatin made from seaweed. I was just wondering how or if this or anything similar would work.

The girlfriend is a vegetarian so need to seek alternative fining...

* just did some further research and the stuff is Carrgeenan(Irish Moss) mixed with other vegetable gelatins. So I guess a question for that would be if it would be possible to boil Irish Moss down in a small amount of liquid and add it to a secondary?
Also the Moss attracts positively charged particles such as proteins which would help with the chill haze, but most yeasts are negatively charged. Is there anyway to tell what charge a certain strain of yeast carries?

If I were you I'd add it and not tell her....unless she is allergic to it, how will she ever know....seems like alot of work for nothing IMO.

Mato23 said:

Has anybody tried gelatin vegetarian substitutes? The only substitute I have found so far is called Kojel and is supposedly a gelatin made from seaweed. I was just wondering how or if this or anything similar would work.

The girlfriend is a vegetarian so need to seek alternative fining...

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Most (if not all) of the gelatin falls out and compacts on the yeast cake.

ben_j8mmin said:

Some of you mentioned letting the gelatin cool before you add it to the beer. wont diluting it into gallons of cold/or room temp beer do that?
if it is necessary to cool it first what temp is "cool" ?

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I don't think it matters all that much. You just don't want hot liquid going into things like a glass carboy prior to racking onto it.

I cool to about 20 degrees above the beer. I wouldnt put anything too hot into my beer. Just seems wrong?

This sounds pretty interesting, and something I'd like to consider in the future. Since I don't use secondary, and it seems some are successfully doing this in their primary. Is there an issue w/ washing the yeast if there is gelatin in there?

My assumption is no, since the gelatin is only grabbing protein based material, and yeast impact is minimal since folks are still naturally carbing. so that should make washing yeast easier since trub/gunk will only fall out of solution faster.

Sounds correct right?

Paddle_Head said:

This sounds pretty interesting, and something I'd like to consider in the future. Since I don't use secondary, and it seems some are successfully doing this in their primary. Is there an issue w/ washing the yeast if there is gelatin in there?

My assumption is no, since the gelatin is only grabbing protein based material, and yeast impact is minimal since folks are still naturally carbing. so that should make washing yeast easier since trub/gunk will only fall out of solution faster.

Sounds correct right?

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I am also curious if gelating affects yeast for reuse. I use gelatin but have never reused the yeast. Anybody do this?