Real Ale

I have a few questions about real ale. I have done some searching on the subject and it's very intriguing for some reason.
How does the carbonation stay in if it's not on CO2? do any of you have any sort of small cask (like a mini keg maybe) that you serve out of without CO2? and how would a homebrewer go about doing this?

If you can get your hands on a beer engine, you're over halfway there. Then, carbonate as usual, and hook up the engine. When serving, open the relief valve on the corny. Close it when you're done. The keg should last 3-5 days without going terribly stale.

Orfy and BP, correct me where I'm wrong.

Okay. So the relief valve is only open for a very short time. That makes more sense.

I'd love to have real ale, my local pub serves locally brewed best bitters and english pale ales through a beer engine. Makes me drool just thinking about it. No way I could get through a whole corny fast enough though, too bad.

The mini-cask idea is interesting. Those mini-kegs with the built-in spigot would probably work but from what I understand they only last for a few uses (I may be out to lunch on that, it's just what I've heard).

It might be possible to install a higher quality spigot on a mini keg. I'm not sure how, but I'd bet it could be done.

If I'm understanding what you're saying; I believe the problem with the mini-kegs wasn't the spigots it was the keg itself. I think they're just plastic lined thin aluminum so when you pressurize them a couple times I guess they deform or something. I have no direct experience though so I can't say for certain.

Real ale has very little carbonation and is normally open to the air.

If it is in a keg, some people are willing to allow a very low pressure (1/4 psi) CO2 blanket to keep the brew fresh longer. I tend to use just enough pressure to serve.

REAL ALE people consider this a hanging offense. Although, I think drawing and quartering would be more traditional.

Would that work with a beer engine? I have no idea how much vacuum pressure they would generate. I'm all for authenticity but sometimes practicality has to win out.

mew said:

Okay. So the relief valve is only open for a very short time. That makes more sense.

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That's how I'd do it. D_42 would apparently have me tortured for that.

Once the "bung" is opened on a traditional cask, it's left open, and whatever happens...happens. The first few pulls are likely fresh and carbonated, but the dregs of the barrel will be quite flat and tinged with anything the cellar has to offer. Real ale changes character over time, becoming oxidized and even slightly soured depending on conditions.

In my case I'm not sure I'd want 19L of cat-conditioned real ale.

bradsul said:

If I'm understanding what you're saying; I believe the problem with the mini-kegs wasn't the spigots it was the keg itself. I think they're just plastic lined thin aluminum so when you pressurize them a couple times I guess they deform or something. I have no direct experience though so I can't say for certain.

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All my minikegs are steel. I've refilled them a dozen times or more...

Yes, OVER-PRIMING them will make them expand. I've lost 4 kegs that way...got too warm in the garage...

homebrewer_99 said:

...Yes, OVER-PRIMING them will make them expand. I've lost 4 kegs that way...got too warm in the garage...

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That's good to know. And since cask conditioned real ale is the goal over-priming won't be much of an issue.

Just make sure you get the ones with the built-in tap at the bottom and go buy some replacement bungs.

Go buy the black bungs with the red plastic key that you have to turn to allow air into the keg for a gravity flow.

The "trick" is to open the top bung first then open the bottom. If you do it the other way around you'll create a vacuum in the keg and the flow will stop.

Where can you get the mini-kegs? I know the amount of priming sugar changes for higher volumes of beer, so how much is needed for one of these?

Danny013 said:

Where can you get the mini-kegs? I know the amount of priming sugar changes for higher volumes of beer, so how much is needed for one of these?

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You can get them online or at the LHBS (support your local HBS!). But I've never seen the bungs HB99 mentioned (never looked for them specifically, though).

If you prime in a bottling bucket, just use the same amount of priming sugar. If you prime in the bottle...let's see...

[(0.75 cups corn sugar)/(5 gal beer)] X [(5 gal beer)/(640 fl oz)] X [(33.8 fl oz)/(1L)] X [(5L)/(1 mini keg)]

=0.198 cups corn sugar per mini keg

I guess that's not very helpful...

No, you only use 1-2 TABLEspoons of Corn Sugar per keg.

I just funnel the sugar in there ad fill within 1" from the top. Sanitize the bung and place the WET (it's a lubricant) bung in place. Lay it on its side and roll a few times. This'll dissolve most of the sugar as well as build up pressure inside which will test your seal.

Look at this site - he has some interesting ideas for having real ale at home. He does use a cask breather (not 100% CAMRA endorsed) but what he proposes sounds like a good compromise.

To me, the slight oxidation that happens with real ale (first 2-3 days) is very important to the over-all taste. I love that you can drink the same beer on day 1, day 2, and day 3 and they all taste different (but still all really good).

Being able to get the full experience is great, but I'd have to ruin the majority of a keg to enjoy a few days of real-ale. That's a lot of work for not much benefit. The cask breather is interesting. I like the fact I wouldn't need another regulator.