Berliner Taste 3 Weeks in

I know I will not have any sourness @ 3 weeks, but what should it taste like 3weeks in? I did Jamil's Berliner from Jamil Show with a vial of wlp677 lacto pitched for 2 days before adding wlp011. The lacto was 6 months past the guarantee date, but it was quite active when I opened the vial, so I went with it. I did not notice any airlock activity for those two days. I'm getting a touch of wit flavors and wondering if a wild yeast might have snuck in on me.

I did one in about three weeks, I had pitched the lacto a day before the yeast. It was sour after 3 weeks, but not quite what I would normally want. I hadn't really done my research and didn't realize that I should have let it go longer. It was actually pretty good though.

My Berliners always seem to take 2-3 months to get as sour as I want them, although I tend to pitch the Lacto/Sacch at the same time. That said, I also try to pitch a big/healthy starter of Lacto, if you didn't see visable fermentation after 2 days with just Lacto that isn't a good sign. The one time I pitched Lacto first I had an inch of krausen after 12 hours (although that Gose still hasn't soured as much as I wanted).

I no-boil my berliner, and let it spontaneously ferment for three days before pitching yeast. After the three days there is a subtle sourness, and it amps up where I want it around two months.

El_Exorcisto said:

I no-boil my berliner, and let it spontaneously ferment for three days before pitching yeast. After the three days there is a subtle sourness, and it amps up where I want it around two months.

Click to expand...

Could you elaborate on the three day spontaneous ferment? Do you pitch lacto at all?

I'm assuming he maybe tosses some raw grain in? I'd love to hear the method too!

I have made a BW with raw grain last Nov. I used acidulated malt. This is a bit complicated because it changes how almost everything is done, but this is actually really easy.

Recipe from memory:
for 5 gallon batch

3.5 lbs pils
3 lbs. white wheat
.5 lbs flaked barley

I step mashed at 100 30min, 130 30min, 150 30min.

1 oz. Hallterau added in the last 15 minutes.

OG was around .1037

I did not boil.

I drained the wort into a primary fermenter and let it cool to around 110 degrees. Too hot and the lactic acid will be killed before it starts. The fermenter was then placed into my now cleaned and cooled brew kettle and filled with water.

I then pitched 1/2lb of whole Acidulated malt in a hop sock. There is no yeast yet.

I took an aquarium thermometer and put into the outside brew kettle and set it 90F. I let this run for 3 days. I got a krausen on top from this that lasted for the first 2 days. The smell was really strong buttermilk. There was definite sourness at that point.

I turned off the aquarium thermometer, and let it cool to 60F. I pulled out the acid malt hop sock. I then pitched German ale yeast, and let it ferment for two weeks.

The FG was 1.006.

SWMBO doesn't like much of what I make, but she really likes this BW.

Thanks man.

If you don't raise the mash temp above 160, you never kill the lacto that is on your grain. There's no need to add grain, since you have a much higher number of lactobacilli from the 7 pounds of grain in the mash. Just let it cool and pour into the fermenter. Let that sit for three days, then pitch your yeast. It's the way they actually do it in Berlin, so I figure it's the way I should do it, too.

El_Exorcisto said:

If you don't raise the mash temp above 160, you never kill the lacto that is on your grain. There's no need to add grain, since you have a much higher number of lactobacilli from the 7 pounds of grain in the mash. Just let it cool and pour into the fermenter. Let that sit for three days, then pitch your yeast. It's the way they actually do it in Berlin, so I figure it's the way I should do it, too.

Click to expand...

Cool, so you can just mash for 60 min. at say 150 with the hops in, and then just let the wort do it's thing for a couple of days.

Yep, mash hop and steep some in the bucket when you run off. As long as you never boil, there doesn't seem to be enough AA extracted to be an issue for the lacto.

El_Exorcisto said:

If you don't raise the mash temp above 160, you never kill the lacto that is on your grain. There's no need to add grain, since you have a much higher number of lactobacilli from the 7 pounds of grain in the mash. Just let it cool and pour into the fermenter. Let that sit for three days, then pitch your yeast. It's the way they actually do it in Berlin, so I figure it's the way I should do it, too.

Click to expand...

Are you sure they aren't throwing in grains after the fact? I'm pretty sure that if you keep your mash tun at 150+ for an hour, most of the lacto is going to be dead.

Many farms pasteurize milk at 150 degrees for under an hour. Guess what makes milk sour...

Miraculously, I have a batch of BW in my basement getting ready for bottles right now brewed in exactly the fashion I described. It's the second batch I've brewed doing it just this way, and they are both most certainly sour.

El_Exorcisto said:

Miraculously, I have a batch of BW in my basement getting ready for bottles right now brewed in exactly the fashion I described. It's the second batch I've brewed doing it just this way, and they are both most certainly sour.

Click to expand...

Cool, I think I'll give that a try on my next one.