carafoam-carapils-maltodextrine

Hello there!

can I steep carafoam? and carapils?
they are suposedly equivalent (dextrine malts) but the briess carapils are suposed to be mashed (according to someone at least) while carafoam does not seem to require that.

also can I get a simmilar effect (to carafoam/carapils), this is improved head retention, using maltodextrine powder?
thanks in advance

i've seen about 50% of the references to carapils say that it does need mashing, and the other 50% say it does not. I just steep it and it seems to work fine.

As for malto-dextrin sugar, I think that only adds body to the beer and does nothing to improve the head retention.

-walker

This is an interesting question, as I was thinking about this lately.

I didn't do an in-depth research, but what I found was that the dextrines in Carapils are not affected by the mash enzymes (neither alpha nor beta amylase). This means that it doesn't need to be mashed since the mash won't have an effect on these. The only thing that needs to happen is getting these sugars into solution which steeping will do.

But I'd like to know what others think about this.

Kai

The malto-dextrine was made during the malting process. I wouldn't think that steeping would have any effect that boiling a wort wouldn't. Did I say that right?

I don't understand what you meant, so I'm going to say that you didn't say it right.

If you meant that there should be no difference between using dextrin malt (aka carapils/carafoam) and using the plain sugar maltodextrin, I would disagree.

The MD sugar is just a sugar.
The DM grain contains the sugar, plus other grainy things.

Kind of like cane sugar vs. sugar cane. Definately not the same thing.

-walker

good, the argument I've read is that briess carapils have a significant amount of unconverted starch, and if steeped they may produce starch haze.

any first hand experience?
walker you say you steep carapils. do you atribute any additional head retention from those or any detrimental property (aka haze)?

thanks in advance!

A lot of my beers are hazy. But, I also use carapils in a lot of my beers.

The head retention seems good. I poured a beer (pandora) about a half an hour ago, and it's sitting here beside me with 1/4" of head still on it (started with about 3/4").

-walker

I see...
anyone with experience steeping carafoam? can you see any diference between steeping carafoam and carapils when steeped?

thanks!

This is one issue I can't seem to figure out. I read that Cara-pils must be mashed with, say, Pale Malt, as it does not contain the necessary enzymes to convert the starches on its own. The enzymes in the Pale Malt convert the starches in the Cara-Pils; hence the starch haze if it is steeped without a base malt.

I've recently sampled my first batch of homebrew. It was quite tasty - though I would like some more mouthfeel. I would like not to add any haze if possible. I'm going back and forth on whether I should say the hell with it and add some Cara-Pils to my steeping bag, or add an ounce or two of maltodextrin powder. I've also considered adding more crystal malt, though I don't necessarily want to add too much more sweetness. Is this maltodextrin powder effective?

Any opinions?

samuelzero said:

Is this maltodextrin powder effective?

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I'd say that malto-dextrin is your best option.

Kai

Imperial Walker said:

If you meant that there should be no difference between using dextrin malt (aka carapils/carafoam) and using the plain sugar maltodextrin, I would disagree.

Click to expand...

I have to disagree with your disagreement. Isn't maltodextrin essentially dextrin malt extract?

El Pistolero said:

I have to disagree with your disagreement. Isn't maltodextrin essentially dextrin malt extract?

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I think that there is more in dextrin malt extract than what you have in malto dextrin. There might even be some fermentable sugars in dextrin malt, as well as proteins.

Kai

When I opened this thread I was trying to decide on the use of dextrine malt or maltodextrine.

here is the rest of my story:
I used a very conservative amount of carapils (6 oz/5Gals) and steeped together with 6 oz of crystal 20 (45 min. 155 F). Upon racking I tasted the beer and it hadn't the body I expected so I tossed 8 oz of maltodextrine in the priming solution.

I am drinking the beer right now, it has good head retention and body. It has no haze. if chilled (not necesary because of style) very very cold, it develops only a shy haze. The beer is very light in color so the haze is more evident.

My plans are to repeat this brew and increase the amount of carapils to at least 8 oz AND use maltodextrine at boil.

I have been thinking about adding something extra in for more mouthfeel and head retention. So I picked up a pound of Carapils dextrine malt and a bag of maltodextrine powder the last visit to the LHBS. My question is how much of what to use? I am an extract with steeped grain brewer. Is this something purely subjective or is there a dose dependant response?

Marc.

I have used MD with corn sugar before. Less than 4 oz. It is not fermentable hence the extra body. Adding MD can slightly sweeten the taste with young brews. I have found that with longer aging, greater than 2 months, this sweet taste disappears.

I have used up 12oz of DM (carapils) on AHA continental pilsner. On this particular batch I never saw chill haze. I didn't steep over 160DF. I also didn't squeeze the grain bag. Both said to be no-no's.

I think both work well, carapils is probably better for the purist at heart.

I think one could omitt the need for either with all malt extracts. No Corn Sugar, substitute extra-light DME. I have thought about adding more malt w/ some crystal malt (L10-30), then some carapils. I really like a dense layer of foam on my beer.

MD or DM - It seems these are more necessary for keeping the "light" in lagers & ales while attemping to increase body. - A brewers magic trick!

This thread is well timed for me. I'm brewing with carapills for the first time tomorrow. My recipe called for maltodexterine but for what ever reason my LBHS doesn't carry it.

I'm hoping tomorrow's brew goes well with it. If it does, I'm seriously considering adding it to any future extract recipe I do, especially if it doesn't have any specialty grains. My peach cream ale turned out wonderfully, but so far its mouthfeel is like water. I hoping it improves with carbonation and age.

feedthebear said:

This thread is well timed for me. I'm brewing with carapills for the first time tomorrow.

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Do you have cracked carapils or no? If its not, its easy to crack in a blender ~ 1/3 of cup at a time pulsing it on and off. Just till its cracked

You might use a muslin hop bag too. Easy to remove the grain when its time.

Good Luck.

El Pistolero said:

I have to disagree with your disagreement. Isn't maltodextrin essentially dextrin malt extract?

Click to expand...

Since maltodextrines are often used in the commercial [COLOR=green! important][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][COLOR=green! important][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]baking[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] process, you will see maltodextrine listed in products such as [COLOR=green! important][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][COLOR=green! important][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]cakes[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR], cookies, frostings, fruit leathers, granola bars, dry mixes, [COLOR=green! important][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][COLOR=green! important][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]infant[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] formulas, dairy products, frozen desserts, coffee whiteners, ice creams, low-fat margarine, peanut butter, salad dressings and nutritional beverages. Maltodextrines are generally recognized as safe (GRAS) food ingredients. "In the U.S., maltodextrine is produced from cornstarch and can be safely eaten by those with celiac disease [an intolerance to a protein called gluten, found in wheat, rye, and barley], but in other countries maltodextrine can be made from wheat, so consuming imported foods is not advised," says Dr. Buford Nichols, a physician who studies starch metabolism at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston.

I disagree with your disagreeing.

Schlenkerla said:

Do you have cracked carapils or no? If its not, its easy to crack in a blender ~ 1/3 of cup at a time pulsing it on and off. Just till its cracked

You might use a muslin hop bag too. Easy to remove the grain when its time.

Good Luck.

Click to expand...

I'm doing, well, I just did a stout. So I had 1lb 12oz. of other grains to steep too. I ran it through the grain mill at the LHBS with the other grains. I'll keep the blender trick in mind next time I'm doing an all extract. Thanks.

I just bottled my american cream ale. I had about 8 oz of carapils with 6 lbs of extra light DME and my home grown hops. It tastes pretty mellow. It has a nice Cascade hops taste. Its about 13 IBU's according to my hop schedule. This should satisify my BMC house guests, with the carapils and a heady pour we should both be happy. After bottling I gave my PET's a good shake, with it flat it still gives off a good head. (It puffs the bottle out...)

Plan to carb two weeks then fridge lager 6-8 weeks. Should OK at Super Bowl Time!!!:rockin:

Ok, old thread, but might as well update for anyone who stumbles cross it:

You CAN steep CaraPils, as stated by Briess in this PDF (pg. 3 under "How do I use it?")

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs_BWB/Briess_Newsletter_2009summer.pdf

Good find funkswing.

Found the answer I was looking for. Thanks OP and homebrew talk!

Hmm... draggin' the bottom for this thread.

I'm brewing a hopped up dark pale ale right now (Steelhead Red Pale Ale), and I steeped a half pound of Carapils. I've used a half pound of it in almost every single beer I've ever brewed.

Gary