Dark Saison

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KarmaCitra

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So I've got 2 Saisons in the books that fell within the accepted style. I was thinking about trying to make a dark saison, and was wondering if anyone had success in doing so? My recipe so far has 4lb of Vienna and 1lb of chocolate malt (partial mash). 3lb of extra light DME, haven't finished the rest of the recipe. Any suggestions/success stories would be appreciated!
 
I've made 3 dark saisons so far, 2 of them were actually black. Basically you should go by the same guidelines as black IPAs. You want as lean a body as possible to differentiate it from a stout/porter. Definitely mash low and add like a pound of sugar. Youll want to get a dark malt that has the least amount of roast character possible. I use midnight wheat for all my black saisons and IPAs. A mashout will help get the most color possible out of the small amount of dark malt youve got

Here's my latest sorachi ace of spades saison for a reference point

8lb pilsner
1lb midnight wheat
1lb flaked corn
2lb torrified wheat
1lb cane sugar

@60: 1 oz sorachi ace
@10: 1 oz sorachi ace / 1 oz lemon drop
@0: 1 oz sorachi ace / 1 oz lemon drop
@dry: 1 oz sorachi ace

used my saison blend of WY3711, WY3724 and WLP566
 
Cool. So with a partial, should I go with a darker DME? Would chocolate malt work in the amount I put?
 
I wouldnt too dark DME, it has a lot fo crystal malts in its make-up which you want to steer clear from in a dark saison. 1lb chocolate will work, might be more brown than black though. Also depends on what kind of chocolate malt (ive seen between 300 and 450 SRM). If you really want a black saison, I'd go with Blackprinz, Carafa III, or midnight wheat. The amount of chocolate youd need to get it entirely black would add too much roast IMO
 
I just bottled a red saison that's used amber Candi sugar and some hibiscus. I feel like you could get a decent dark color with some darker sugar and it will still be pretty true to style
 
I guess I was just looking for some chocolate character. Midnight wheat is probably what I'll use, with some chocolate malt added too, for some character.
 
I've always wondered, where do you get hibiscus? Never understood how flowers are used in brewing, but it definitely works!
 
Ok, here's what I've got.

5# American Vienna
3# Extra Light DME
3/4# German Carafa II (Dehusked)
1/2# German Chocolate Wheat
1/2# Torrified Wheat
1# Cane Sugar

Mash at 145 for 60min. Sparge at 165.

1oz Tettnang - 30min
1oz Strisselspalt - 15min
1oz Strisselspalt - 10min

Belle Saison yeast (1 packet)

IBU = 14.23
SRM = 35.06
OG = 1.063
FG = 1.012 (probably will end lower with the Belle)
ABV = 6.69%

What do y'all think?
 
You can cut the midnight wheat way back. It only takes about a half a pound to make a brew dark. You can just use regular wheat for the difference.
 
yeah I was gonna say, 1 lb total dark malts is usually what I do. Youve already got the chocolate so i'd do 1/2lb of each
 
Changed the recipe. Moved the midnight to .75#, since the app I'm using is still showing brown as an estimate. I want to make sure this brew is really dark. Any other thoughts?
 
nah you should be good. I doubt the SRM calculator takes into account something like a mashout to get the last bit of color extracted
 
Have you ever heard of "Capping the Mash", which is pretty standard for this type of beer, you simply save that midnight wheat, moot roast, Carafa III, or something else similar, grind it super fine, and add either before the mash-out or sparge, it will give you all of the color, without the "bitter" character that you might not want in this style. Some folks also "brew" it in a French Press coffee maker, and add it to the kettle. I have done several times and it works great. I wouldn't use a malt where you are trying to get flavor, just those types above, it also doesn't throw your pH into the <5, lik some really dark malts do.
 
I brewed this kit and gave it as presents last Christmas - http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/saison-de-noel-limited-edition-all-grain-kit

O.G: 1.070 READY: 6 WEEKS

Suggested fermentation schedule:
- 2 weeks primary; 2 weeks secondary; 2 weeks
bottle conditioning; cellar for up to 6 months

MASH INGREDIENTS
- 10 lbs. Belgian Pilsner malt
- .5 lbs. Belgian Aromatic malt
- .25 lbs. Weyermann Carafa III
- .25 lbs. Weyermann CaraAroma

YEAST
Wyeast #3711 French Saison. Optimum temperature: 65-77°F

MASH SCHEDULE: SINGLE INFUSION
Sacch&#8217; Rest: 150° F for 75 minutes
Mashout: 168° F for 10 minutes
BOIL ADDITIONS & TIMES
1 oz. US Magnum (60 min)
1 lb Corn Sugar (60 min)
1 lb D90 Candi Syrup (60 min)
 
I recently did a dark saison extract. I used a dark ale recipe I love but with the saison yeast it came out ok, just felt like it was missing a little oomph. If I do another batch I might add some spice- coriander or anise- to see if I can kick it up a notch or switch the simcoe with saaz or use both.

8 lb Liquid Malt Extract - Extra Light
8 lb Total

Steeping Grains

1.25 lb German - Carafa III
0.5 lb German - Carapils
Hops

1 oz Simcoe 30 min
0.5 oz Simcoe 20 min
0.5 oz Simcoe 10 min


OG 1.063
FG 1.015
ABV 6.35%
IBU 48.81
SRM 43.78
 
Forgot to mention, I'm BIAB, so will the 165 degree sparge suffice for mashout? Or should I crank that to 170 degree sparge water?
 
I'm BIAB too, and I bet I skipped the mashout. I usually do a 90 minute mash and always do an iodine test to verify conversion.
 
Your sparge water is 168, or you bring it up to 168? My past brews have had the actual sparge water at 165-170, but if that's wrong....
 
KarmaCitra said:
I've always wondered, where do you get hibiscus? Never understood how flowers are used in brewing, but it definitely works!
Click to expand...

I actually got mine at whole foods in the tea aisle, but I think a pound a dried petals is like $18 or something on amazon
 
After digging into some other posts, it looks like I need to crank my sparge water up to 175-180 so I can get the mash closer to 168 after the sparge.
 
Changed the recipe again, looks like my LHBS doesn't carry midnight wheat, so I did some research and found that Carafa II dehusked will help bring the color close to black. I also bumped up the Vienna to increase ABV. Any critique would be appreciated!!!
 
KarmaCitra said:
After digging into some other posts, it looks like I need to crank my sparge water up to 175-180 so I can get the mash closer to 168 after the sparge.
Click to expand...

If you're able to do full volume biab then you don't need to sparge, just raise the temp to 168. All depends on your gear and process.
 
Update! So the beer is now in bottles. The final taste was interesting in a good way. Had a unique coffee-like roast to it, but it was very subtle against the funkiness of the yeast. Smooth, still sweet, but also on the dry side. I'll report back when its all carbed!
 
m00ps said:
I've made 3 dark saisons so far, 2 of them were actually black. Basically you should go by the same guidelines as black IPAs. You want as lean a body as possible to differentiate it from a stout/porter. Definitely mash low and add like a pound of sugar. Youll want to get a dark malt that has the least amount of roast character possible. I use midnight wheat for all my black saisons and IPAs. A mashout will help get the most color possible out of the small amount of dark malt youve got

Here's my latest sorachi ace of spades saison for a reference point

8lb pilsner
1lb midnight wheat
1lb flaked corn
2lb torrified wheat
1lb cane sugar

@60: 1 oz sorachi ace
@10: 1 oz sorachi ace / 1 oz lemon drop
@0: 1 oz sorachi ace / 1 oz lemon drop
@dry: 1 oz sorachi ace

used my saison blend of WY3711, WY3724 and WLP566
Click to expand...

m00ps you are the Google of Saison beer. :mug:
 
howd the color turn out?

Ive started using the midnight wheat just at mashout for my black IPAs and saisons
 

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