Shank washer - Is mine in the right place? (First 1-2 oz tastes really "off"!)

The only place to put the shank washer that makes sense to me is between the nipple (tailpiece) and shank. The nut then pulls the two together, squishing the washer. But that puts the beer in contact with thes rubber/smelly washers.... Is this the right place? I makes a good seal but the reason I ask is:

I've had my setup up and running for a couple of weeks now and find that the first ounce or two (the warm stuff in the lines) tastes really "off".

To make sure that it actually tasted different, I waited 24 hours for the beer in the line to warm up, pulled 2 oz in one glass "A", then pulled a whole pint (which I drank ), then pulled 2 oz in glass "B". I let them sit for an hour to warm up. The Glass "B" (the second glass) tasted 'normal' but warm. Glass "A" which spent the night in the lines tasted weird. Kind of chemically and 'off' - almost sour. I used a homemade light lager on purpose so that any weird taste would show up.

I figured that beer left in the lines for 24+ hours would be warm but not taste "off" just from being in the lines. Is this normal? If yes, why? It's a closed system. Is the rubber in various spots to blame?

FWIW, I'm putting together a system to air cool the 4' from freezer to tap so that hopefully it doesn't happen, but I'm still curious. If it's still going to happen even with cooled lines (ie: the first oz or two will be 'off' but cold) let me know and I won't bother with the line cooling!

Thanks guys!

Kal

Did you sanitize the lines? It sounds like it's picking up some kind of bug in the line which gets worse with higher temps and time. Flushing out that stuff and continuing the pour logically puts a lot more fresh beer into the glass.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I did not sanitize the lines. I did pump a bunch of oxyclean through them followed by a pile of water. I'll sanitize them before I hook up beer lines again.

In reading around here I've noticed that at least 1-2 other people have mentioned that beer sitting at room temp in a few feet of line like this (mine are 4' from the freezer) will go 'skunky' over time. Is this typical behaviour?

Is it also normal to have the beer in contact with these rubber washers like I've done above? The washers have a really strong rubber smell and taste to them (that smell you get in the rubber boot aisle at your local department store). To me it just doesn't seem normal to put beer in contact with this, no?

Kal

Update:

I found this thread where someone asks if the washer is to go in the nut first and then the nipple on top. There was one response that this is indeed the way to go so what I did in the picture is wrong. This would avoid the rubber contact, but one of my nipples is a special one with a 90 bend and the silly thing has a larger base than the others so the washer doesn't fit nicely between the nut and the nipple. *sigh*

I'll move them all and see what happens.

Kal

Related, but not identical. I have these shanks:

And while they are washer free, I still get the exact same 2oz of funk you describe. I have a tower. Recently I've experimented with cooling....dropping the tower to ~60F by using a muffin fan for circulation. The sourness has subsided some, but not enough to my liking. I had this same setup with non-shirron faucets and never had an issue.

ebeer said:

I had this same setup with non-shirron faucets and never had an issue.

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That's very telling. I have ventmatic faucets (same forward sealing design as your shirrons).

Just to be sure: Are you saying that prior to getting the forward sealing faucets you didn't have this 2-oz of sourness on the first pour?

Maybe the rubber or something else in forward sealing faucets is to blame?

Kal

P.S. On a related note: I came across a PDF document on how to add taps to a fridge and they put the washers between the shank and the nipple like I did in the picture above. So now I've heard of 2 ways to do it.

You got it right Kal. My old standard faucets would sometimes dry up (easy remedy was a little hot water and they poured perfect). I thought I'd upgrade to the Shirrons, and that's when the mess began. I'm really at a loss, I tried all the forums and tried just about everything I know. Guess the best remedy is dump a few oz's then pour, but it's a solution I'm not at all content with.

Well this is very strange.

I did a TON of research before getting the Ventmatics and never once did anyone mention this problem in their posts, and most of these people were coming from standard faucets. Very strange indeed.

I'm also not content with pouring a couple of oz first. To some this is nothing as they may pour many beers in a row at parties/etc, but I tend to drink exactly 1 pint a day after which the tap sits for 24 hours unused.

Let me know if you ever figure anything out on this one...

Kal

I think I'm going to call the folks at Micromatic. I notice they don't sell forward seal faucets of any kind, and I'm wondering if this is why.

what kind of beverage line are you using? i have my rubber gaskets between the shank and the nipple and notice no off flavors with my beer. i also have shirrons faucets.

i purchased the braided beverage tubing at home depot and have never had an off flavor with my beers, even when they where ran up to a tower.

blefferd said:

what kind of beverage line are you using?

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3/16" ID PVC beer line from morebeer.com:
http://morebeer.com/view_product/16366/102240

There's about 8-9' between keg and tap. 4' of which is outside the freezer.

i have my rubber gaskets between the shank and the nipple and notice no off flavors with my beer. i also have shirrons faucets.

i purchased the braided beverage tubing at home depot and have never had an off flavor with my beers, even when they where ran up to a tower.

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Interesting. Good to know!

Kal

i would say that 4 feet outside the freezer with clear tubing the light is skunking up your beer. unless its coverd then i dont know what to tell you LOL

blefferd said:

i would say that 4 feet outside the freezer with clear tubing the light is skunking up your beer. unless its coverd then i dont know what to tell you LOL

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No light, the stuff's covered up and is a back room where the lights are off. Regular incandescent light doesn't make beer taste funny in 24 hours anyway.

Kal

B-L-C Beer Line Cleaner is your friend.

I always pour off an ounce or two into a waste cup before the real "business" begins.

i would agree with beirmuncher, or just use bigger glasses pint size +++ LOL

blefferd said:

i would agree with beirmuncher, or just use bigger glasses pint size +++ LOL

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Well...truth be told. I go ahead and guzzle it if nobody is looking.

ebeer said:

I think I'm going to call the folks at Micromatic. I notice they don't sell forward seal faucets of any kind, and I'm wondering if this is why.

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Any news on this?

I'm getting fed up with this first 2 oz of 'off taste' beer.

I've cleaned and sanitized all my lines. I even chill the lines/shanks/taps down to 35-40F such that they very cold to the touch and the taps perspire on humid days. This keeps the first few oz as cool as the 40F beer I'm serving.

But the first 2 oz still tastes like crap. Almost tastes like it's been sitting in a rubber boot.

I'm going to try replacing one of my SS forward sealing Perlick taps with a cheap rear sealing one and see if that makes it go away. I really don't want to toss $200 of Perlick taps however!

Kal

I'm sure someone would take the Perlicks off your hands. I think it could very well be just a little funk in the very output of the faucet. Just as an experiment, put some hot water in a spray bottle and squirt it into the faucet spout to rinse well. Then pull two ounces.

Bobby_M said:

I'm sure someone would take the Perlicks off your hands. I think it could very well be just a little funk in the very output of the faucet. Just as an experiment, put some hot water in a spray bottle and squirt it into the faucet spout to rinse well. Then pull two ounces.

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Thanks for the idea though I've pretty much already done that: 2 days ago I put 2-3 gallons of hot Oxyclean through each of the taps (letting it sit in the lines for an hour as well), and then followed up with another 2-3 gallons of hot water per tap to rinse.

Happens on all 4 faucets as well. Two of which had not previously touched beer (but were cleaned/sanitized before use of course).

I'm starting to wonder if Perlick changed their rubber or something such that I'm noticing these problems and others with Perlicks bought in the past are not. Maybe it'll subside over time? I've put about 5 gals or so through 2 of the taps now (over a period of 2-3 months) and it doesn't seem to be subsiding at all unfortunately.

Kal

Update: The beer hose is causing the off-taste. Nothing else. Replaced the line with better stuff and the problems gone.

Turns out the 3/16" line I bought from morebeer.com in late august/early sept was defective.

Kal

Update: Other vinyl lines were also causing an off-taste so I went with barrier type poly tubing (Bev Seal tubing from Kuritek).

More info here on my research into it here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=458780&postcount=44

Kal