Oatmeal Sout yeast (dry or liquid)

I'm still new to home brew but for my next batch I'm going to make an oatmeal stout mini mash. I'm going to try roasting the oats and some of the malts as well. I've used the s-o4 and really liked the results. But I'm thinking of upgrading to WLP004 Irish Ale yeast, since I'm really putting some extra effort into this batch? Now I've searched a bit on the forums and found alot of talk on the dry verses liquid, but....

1. Is dealing with the starter (which seems to be necessary for liquid yeast) and added cost of both yeast and a starter kit really worth the benefits?

2. Is there any difference besides the taste and would it be more than a subtle difference?

1. I think liquid yeast is a much better yeast, for flavor and purity. Yeah, you have to make a starter, usually, but that will only make sure the batch starts quickly.

2. Purity and strain availability are 2 other main factors to use liquid yeast. There are many more options, strain-wise, with liquid. But, dry yeast does have more strains and the purity is getting better. My vote is liquid.

As to your question, the Irish Ale you suggest would fit the bill nicely.

Two things to consider for liquid.

1. Liquid - shorter shelf life/ needs cold storage - dry isnt as fragile.

2. Liquid is more costly.

My $.02

For something like a stout, there's really no advantage to using a liquid yeast. Dry yeast are just a good a liquid. Worries like "purity" aren't really an issue anymore with dry yeasts as the production process have improved greatly over the years.

Liquid yeasts big advantage is in variety of strains. I just used a smack pack of liquid yeast to brew my saison today because... well, that's the only way to brew a saison. Nobody makes a dry saison yeast!

I really like US-04 and US-05 for things like stouts, depending on if I want it to taste like an American or British stout. American is cleaner while British has more of an ester profile provided by the yeast.

ChshreCat said:

For something like a stout, there's really no advantage to using a liquid yeast. Dry yeast are just a good a liquid. Worries like "purity" aren't really an issue anymore with dry yeasts as the production process have improved greatly over the years.

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That's the overall impression I got from every thing I've read so far, thanks for confirming.

ChshreCat said:

I really like US-04 and US-05 for things like stouts, depending on if I want it to taste like an American or British stout. American is cleaner while British has more of an ester profile provided by the yeast.

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Every one loves these two strains, thanks for the simple comparison, I've been struggling to figure how to use each one. It seems like a good majority of brews can be made with these two dry yeasts.

I'm still unsure though about how much a yeast strain will lend to the flavor of a beer. I want to brew stouts and IPAs for the most part and I can't get my head around the idea tasting the yeast behind the roasted flavor or the bitterness and aroma of hops. But with the butt load of liquid strains available it makes me wonder if there's something to it.

So, just how much flavor difference is there between yeast strains?

Yeast and fermentation are everything when it comes to beer - well, arguably the most important anyways. If you are unsure of the flavor differences between yeasts, you need to go out and try more beers. Yeast is a HUGE component of beer flavor...

+1 Yeast can have as much impact on the flavor of your beer as the hops and malt.In the saison I just brewed you would swear that it had black pepper and orange peel and a bunch of other spices in it, but those flavors are all created by the yeast.

Try this sometime. Brew up a stout and split the batch in two. Put US-05 in one and US-04 in the other. They're basically the same yeast, but the ester profiles are markedly different.

If you still don't think yeast can have much to do with the flavor of the beer, pick up a lambic.

vegas20s said:

1. Is dealing with the starter (which seems to be necessary for liquid yeast) and added cost of both yeast and a starter kit really worth the benefits?

2. Is there any difference besides the taste and would it be more than a subtle difference?

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1. A starter really isn't a big deal. The only benefits to liquid is a wider choice of strains to choose from, so it may or may not be worth the cost and hassle depending on what you're looking for in a yeast.

2. There are lots of very noticeable differences between yeasts (including taste), but that's not really a liquid vs dry discussion, it's a strain vs strain thing. The WLP004 will produce a much different beer than the S-04 you used last time, but so will S-33 or S-05. S-04 is a Whitbread strain, so the only yeasts that won't be significantly different are other Whitbread strains, like WLP007 or 1099.

I say choose the yeast based on what you're looking for in flavor, attenuation, flocculation, etc. rather than on whether it's available in liquid or dry form. Use an Irish yeast for an Irish stout flavor, English for English, etc. Asking which one is better is like asking if peanuts, cashews or almonds are better.... it all depends on your individual taste and on what you're trying to make.

ChshreCat said:

Try this sometime. Brew up a stout and split the batch in two. Put US-05 in one and US-04 in the other. They're basically the same yeast, but the ester profiles are markedly different.

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+1 ^^^^
I brew 10 gal batches which I ferment in two 6 gal fermenters. I almost always pitch different yeasts or dry hop with different varieties to compare things. When I first started brewing I bought a bunch of 1 gal growlers so I could split a 5 gal batch up to compare 5 different yeasts. This enabled me to accurately compare yeasts and quickly figure out what kind of flavors each one produces.

Excellent point as well. That's one thing I also like about US-05 is that it flocculates well and forms a nice compact layer on the bottom of the fermenter. Lots of different factors can go into a yeast choice.

Ok That gives me some good things to think about.

I guess I just have to try more ingredients to see how they differ to me and what I like

Thanks

vegas20s said:

1. Is dealing with the starter (which seems to be necessary for liquid yeast) and added cost of both yeast and a starter kit really worth the benefits?

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I just wanted to address the "cost" issue. My main yeast is WYeast 1056. I like it because it has a super-clean profile that I've never gotten from dry yeast (which I still use sometimes). I use one smack-pack for up to five batches. I just make sure I coordinate transfering and brewing and use slurry from the previous batch's cake.

My "starter kit" is an old 1g jug I had. 1/4c DME, some water, an airlock...Starter kit!

So....cost is minimal to go with liquid. Like everyone else said though, it depends what you're looking for: Variety, or convenience?

WL irish ale yeast.

Beautiful. That is all.

JuanMoore said:

+1 ^^^^
I brew 10 gal batches which I ferment in two 6 gal fermenters. I almost always pitch different yeasts or dry hop with different varieties to compare things. When I first started brewing I bought a bunch of 1 gal growlers so I could split a 5 gal batch up to compare 5 different yeasts. This enabled me to accurately compare yeasts and quickly figure out what kind of flavors each one produces.

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Could you please elaborate on that? Did you pitch yeast right in the growler? How did you keep it from exploding? I have two and could easily get more.

Tx
Bill

Dynachrome said:

Could you please elaborate on that? Did you pitch yeast right in the growler? How did you keep it from exploding? I have two and could easily get more.

Tx
Bill

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I used rubber stoppers and airlocks just like using a carboy for fermenting, only smaller. I can't remember the stopper size off hand. I pitched ~1/3 vial per 1 gal growler for the liquid yeasts, and ~1/5 packet for the dry yeasts. A picture is worth a thousand words.....



One of the really interesting things was how different the yeasts look from each other while fermenting.

If anybody really wants to know, growlers and 1 gallon jugs (of the Carlo Rossi variety) use #6 stoppers while "regular" carboys use #7 stoppers.

I'm defiantly going with the Irish ale. I visited the LHBS today and got some advice. As long as I keep th OG down I can pitch without a starter. I'm going to try and harvest of the yeast cake so I can keep using. Then cost is no biggie at all.

I only use liquid yeast when US-05 or S-04 would be inappropriate. I've also used Nottingham with pretty good success.

vegas20s said:

I'm defiantly going with the Irish ale. I visited the LHBS today and got some advice. As long as I keep th OG down I can pitch without a starter. I'm going to try and harvest of the yeast cake so I can keep using. Then cost is no biggie at all.

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My mind always goes American or English for a stout. That's an excellent choice as well!